[Deck] Grixis Tempo

[Jo11ygrnreefer]

This is why I prefer the Stifle build. Gives extra gas for the miracle triggers and doubles as land tempo. With the extra protection, it makes SDT non threatening and allows you to focus primarly on CB.

[Manipulato]

Hey guys,
went 5:0 undefeated today with the following list:

14 Creatures
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Young Pyromancer
2 Gurmag Angler
1 Vendilion Clique

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Cabal Therapy

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe

4 Lightning Bolt
1 Dismember
1 Forked Bolt

18 Lands
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland

Sideboard
2 Pyroblast
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Winter Orb
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Baleful Strix
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Painful Truths
1 Pithing Needle

My MU's were:

Round 1: BWR Team Italia Won 2:1
Round 2: RUG Delver Won 2:0
Round 3: Shardless BUG Won 2:1
Round 4: Death & Taxes Won 2:1
Round 5: Miracles Won 2:0

The result was strong but the games vs RUG, Shardless & DnT were closer than I like my games, super tough matches.
Winter Orb was a house against Miracles & solid vs Shardless. I would bring in the Orb again vs Shardless, it just stops them from going big with there cardquality.

The boarding was like on the page back exept that I boarded -2 FoW -2 Daze vs DnT Otd & just boarded in the 3rd copie of Therapy because to many Therapy's are bad too and worse topdecks. Board control is more important than discard vs them in my opinion.

Miracles
+ 2 Pyroblast
+ 2 Winter Orb
+ 1 Painful Truths
+ 1 Engineered Explosives
+ 1 Pithing Needle
- 2 Daze
- 2 Lightning Bolt
- 1 Forked Bolt
- 1 Dismember
- 1 Wasteland

Eldrazi (Not entirely sure here tbh, still testing the best option)
+ 2 Baleful Strix
+ 1 Engineered Explosives
+ 1 Ancient Grudge
- 2 Cabal Therapy
- 1 Forked Bolt
- 1 Lightning Bolt

Shardless BUG
+ 2 Pyroblast
+ 2 Baleful Strix
+ 2 Winter Orb
+ 1 Painful Truths
+ 1 Grim Lavamancer
- 4 Force of Will
- 2 Cabal Therapy
- 1 Forked Bolt
- 1 Gitaxian Probe

Death & Taxes
+ 1 Cabal Therapy
+ 1 Ancient Grudge
+ 1 Grim Lavamancer
+ 1 Pithing Needle
+ 1 Engineered Explosives
- 3 Force of Will
- 2 Gurmag Angler

OTD -> -1 FoW -2 Daze instead of 3 FoW

Infect
+ 2 Baleful Strix
+ 2 Pyroblast
+ 1 Engineered Explosives
+ 1 Grim Lavamancer
+ 1 Pithing Needle
- 4 Gitaxian Probe
- 2 Cabal Therapy
- 1 Gurmag Angler

Delver Mirror
+ 2 Pyroblast
+ 2 Baleful Strix
+ 1 Grim Lavamancer
- 2 Force of Will
- 2 Cabal Therapy
- 1 Gitaxian Probe

[Agrippa91]

@jrsthethird
You really shouldn't board in Divert against Red Delver decks imo. I only have it against BUG/Jund and Burn. BG decks tend to tap out for Abrupt Decay and play a lot of discard, so Divert is really good there. Burn just plays like 1/2 spells that can be diverted and while they play around daze quite often they certainly don't play around spell pierce. Also gets Exquisite Firecraft.
Against Red Delver decks on the other side everybody is playing around Flusterstorm/Spell Pierce as soon as he has 3 mana by casting the removal spell first and something like cantrips later (generally speaking), at least when the opponent has a mana open.

@Manipulato
I don't think you can play any Delver deck with only 4 removal spells nowadays. I see most RUG lists with 6, personally I think 5 is fine when you have enough postboard. Most squeeze in Dismember in the mainboard, but I have enough sb cards that I think I can keep the Forked Bolt (I still hate dismember in this deck). Check out my list below.
I also agree that Force of Will is just a really good card against Eldrazi, countering their Dismember or their TKS/Endless One/Reality Smasher can give us enough tempo to just win the game. And it's always nice to force Chalice.

I actually have changed my list a bit! Still playing Grixis and still playing Abrupt Decays in the sb, but I went down to 2.
Reason being that more than 1 in hand is often times pretty awkward since your main land is still volcanic, this also let me cut the second Tropical from the sideboard. Krosan Grip was cool and really shines in some matchups, but it's just really clunky and is just a weaker card than Abrupt Decay generally speaking.

The 3 cuts (Decay, Krosan Grip, Tropical) gave me room for some cards I really wanted to play:
- Grim Lavamancer as a way to punish creature decks
- Ancient Grudge since I went down on the artifact destruction department, but still hate Eldrazi and D&T.
- Terminate to not only get rid of Angler, but also Goyfs that have Artifacts in the gy, TKSs and Reality Smashers

I still board in the 2 Decays against Tarmogoyf decks, but skip them completely against decks like e.g. Grixis Delver.
Playtested against Grixis Delver (without Decays) and Stifle BUG (with Decays) and it felt really nice. Having enough answers to Tarmogoyf is really cool, look forward to kill Chalices, RIPs and Counterbalances (which is still the main reason for the decays).

My list now looks as follows:

creatures (13)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Young Pyromancer
2 Gurmag Angler

instants and sorceries (29)
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
1 Spell Pierce

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Gitaxian Probe

4 Lightning Bolt
1 Terminate


lands (18)
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
4x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
4x Wasteland

sideboard (15)
2 Pithing Needle
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Pyroblast
1 Invasive Surgery
1 Flusterstorm
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Forked Bolt
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Fire Covenant


Here's some of my sideboarding strategies (outdated):

Miracles (11)
-4 Daze
-4 Wasteland
-2 Lightning Bolt
-1 Forked Bolt
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Invasive Surgery (trying it out against Terminus, also nice to see shuffle opp's top cards away and see his hand if he brainstormed in response to a therapy)
+1 Pyroblast
+1 Hydroblast
+1 Invasive Surgery
+3 Cabal Therapy
+2 Abrupt Decay
+1 Ancient Grudge (so much of their game plan is about top that I think it's worth bringing in this card just to screw with top and fetchlands)

It might seem like an overload, but given that Miracle players pretty much want to play against Delver all day it's not the worst I guess.

Eldrazi (6)
-4 Stifle
-2 Gitaxian Probe
+1 Grim Lavamancer
+2 Abrupt Decay
+1 Ancient Grudge
+1 Terminate
+1 Fire Covenant

Highly favorable postboard, therefore we can get stomped preboard pretty easily.

Grixis Delver (4)
-2 Force of Will
-2 Gitaxian Probe
+1 Grim Lavamancer
+1 Pyroblast
+1 Hydroblast
+1 Terminate

I like keeping in 2 Forces here because a topdecked angler from either side often times decides the game in my experience.

BUG Delver (6)
-3 Force of Will
-3 Gitaxian Probe
+1 Grim Lavamancer
+1 Pyroblast
+1 Divert
+2 Abrupt Decay
+1 Terminate

Since we have so many answers to Goyf I don't really want Force of Will that much. Having one is still nice against a deck that doesn't play Pyroblast and doesn't always board in Flusterstorms.

RUG Delver (5)
-3 Gitaxian Probe
-2 Force of Will
+1 Pyroblast
+1 Hydroblast
+2 Abrupt Decay
+1 Terminate

I tried Invasive Surgery for a while and it's cool against Forked Bolt, Rough/Tumble and Ponder in topdeck wars. On the other side I really just want a FoW against the opponent's Dismember and Nimble Mongooses (Oozes are really problem when I don't get the gy in control early with DRS).
Unlike other people I also don't like Probe against other stifle decks. It really does nothing for your game: Sure it tells you wether to play around daze or not for one turn, but you should play around stifle to the best of your abilities the whole time anyways. On the other side the 2 life can be really brutal when you're behind and dig for answers, FoW on the other side can feed on late Dazes/Stifles that might be stuck in your hand).

UR Delver (5)

-3 Gitaxian Probe
-2 Force of Will
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Pyroblast
1 Hydroblast
2 Abrupt Decay

Decays are nice here because UR Delver doesn't play any wastelands. Stormchaser Mage can be hard to deal with otherwise (though both our blasts take care of it). I like the FoWs even thought the opponent plays Pyroblasts and propably even Flusterstorms. Terminate just seems like a worse decay here. I'd bring it in if I saw them splashing black for Angler of course.



Death & Taxes (10)
-4 Dazes
-3 Stifles
-2 Force of Wills
-1 Spell Pierce
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Grim Lavamancer
+3 Cabal Therapy
+2 Abrupt Decay
+1 Ancient Grudge
+1 Terminate
+1 Fire Covenant

I go for the full value of Cabal Therapy, Ancient Grudge, Grim Lavamancer, Forked Bolt and Fire Covenant here, grinding out my opponent who gets flooded eventually.
Dazes go very badly with this game plan because you can't really choose when to play them. Forces on the other hand prevent early losses and can counter lategame threats and things that hurt you like a swords on Lavamancer or a RIP when you need your grave. The blue count is lower, but if you have no blue card that often times means your hand is full of removal and creatures anyways.
Together with the RUG match this is certainly the matchup where our mana base for Abrupt Decay gets tested the most. On the other side I really wouldn't want to miss the decay in either matchup.

Shardless BUG (7)
-4 Force of Will
-3 Gitaxian Probe
+1 Grim Lavamancer
+1 Pyroblast
+1 Invasive Surgery
+1 Divert
+1 Abrupt Decay
+1 Terminate
+1 Fire Covenant

I just can't find a spot for the second Decay in this matchup tbh. I really like the stile-daze-wasteland plan here and spell pierce and divert go very well with it. Fire Covenant and Terminate are already big removal spells so I don't think I need the decays here, we can lose to more things than just Tarmogoyfs. I also don't like the Ancient Grudge. While it's cool to grudge strixes only having Shardless Agent as your target is really awful. And some lists only play 2 Strixes.

ANT (6)
-3 Lightning Bolt
-1 Forked Bolt
-2 Gurmag Angler
+1 Surgical Extraction
+1 Pyroblast
+1 Invasive Surgery
+3 Cabal Therapy

1 Lightning Bolt is neat in case the opponent has Xantid swarm or Bob, both cards that are very dependend on our draw to be good or not. It also lets you kill 1 turn quicker sometimes.
Delver is our best clock, DRS interacts with PiF alongside Surgical Extraction, Pyromancer is best with our Therapies which leaves Angler as our worst creatures. But I think we had this discussion already.
Against TES it's the same sideboarding only I board in an additional Hydroblast. They don't have any creatures and it hits Burning Wish besides PiF which is awesome.

Show & Tell (7)
-4 Lightning Bolt
-1 Forked Bolt
-2 Gurmag Angler
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Pyroblast
+1 Hydroblast
+1 Invasive Surgery
+3 Cabal Therapy
The only creature I expect they could have is Grim Lavamancer which already gets answered by Hydroblast and Stifle well enough imo. It's not that usual and I'd much rather have the additional disruption than a Bolt.
Hydroblast is nice against REBs, Sneak Attack, Wraths (except Kozilek's return) and some weird cards like Overmaster and Lavamancer. At worst it pitches to FoW.
We can play around Defense Grid most of the time with our DRS mana, it's really bad for them if we draw Therapy and they have Grid out (also brainstorming in response costs them 3 mana).

Elves (9):
-4 Stifle
-4 Daze
-1 Spell Pierce
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Grim Lavamancer
+1 Invasive Surgery
+3 Cabal Therapy
+1 Abrupt Decay
+1 Terminate
+1 Fire Covenant

I board equal to both Chaos Elves and regular elves. Wren Pack Huntmaster and Glimpse of Nature are still scary cards so I want to keep in all the Forces. The one Abrupt Decay is really only there as an additional way to kill stuff, even trading 2 mana for 1 is nice against a synergistic deck.
Stifles are awesome in game 1 and I wouldn't want to miss them because they make their go-to-combo really weak and equal to a Gurmag Angler. Post-sideboard though they propably have Ruric Thar, Elderscale Wurm or Progenitus to board into, stifle doesn't just counter NO the way it does preboard.
Also the opponent might still be playing around Daze and Stifle without us having it anymore which is always nice (but also not too hard to do with tons of mana).

Cloudpost (9)
-4 Lightning Bolt
-1 Forked Bolt
-4 Daze
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Pyroblast
+1 Invasive Surgery
+3 Cabal Therapy
+1 Ancient Grudge
+1 Terminate
+1 Fire Covenant

Just listing this because it comes up a lot and I want to emphasize again that Surgical is BAD in this matchup. Once you've hit a cloudpost you're fine anyways, even if you extract it they still can cast Titan and, most importantly, Show & Tell.
Stifle is really nice here because you can stifle Titan, Expedition Map, Candelabra etc. so we don't keep them in for the Daze-Wasteland plan. Wasteland is excclusively reserved for Cloudpost. Pyroblast and Invasive Surgery are there for Show & Tell. Ancient Grudge is a catch-all against Platinum Emperion, ill timed Expedition Maps and Top activations, Pithing Needle and Candelabra.
Terminate and Fire Covenant are there because often times you can withstand a fatty coming into play (they board out Emrakul most of the time and have a max of 1 anyways), but you have to kill a Primeval Titan pretty much before it attacks. The Lifeloss from Fire Covenant really doesn't matter, it's just another Terminate here (saved my ass in Frankfurt killing Platinum Emperion).

Merfolk (8)
-4 Stifle
-3 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Spell Pierce
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Grim Lavamancer
+1 Pyroblast
+1 Cabal Therapy
+1 Ancient Grudge
+2 Abrupt Decay
+1 Terminate

It might seem weird to bring in 1 Therapy when taking out all Probes but it's really just there to take a card when it's revealed with Silvergil Adept, otherwise it always names TNN the turn before it can be cast/vialed in if I have it.
The Abrupt Decays are really awesome here because they hit creatures, but also Jitte and Chalice (which we're not sure how many there are in the opponent's deck).
I tried out the grindy approach with Probes and Therapies before and must say that it sucked hard, I just got tempoed out by this deck. Dazes are nice whenever they don't have cavern because their stuff costs a lot (and I have a lot of answers to Vial). Forces are quite necessary imo because stuff like Echoing Truth, Harbinger or a timely TNN can just swing the tempo in their favor with no chance of a comeback. They also don't have good answers for FoW like Pyroblast (Flusterstorm is pretty bad for them imo)

Lands (7)
-4 Daze
-1 Forked Bolt
-2 Lightning Bolt
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Surgical Extraction
+1 Hydroblast
+1 Invasive Surgery
+1 Ancient Grudge
+2 Abrupt Decay

Dazes are the worst cards here, even on the play they're pretty much only good on the first turn (sometimes).
I like keeping in Bolts, they answer stuff like Dark Confidant or this new Tireless Tracker. Winning faster is nice, too of course.
I like keepin in Probes for Delirum as well as the information, e.g. how to use the Ancient Grudge, wether to waste and what etc.
Abrupt Decay is nice here because it kills lockpieces and Exploration. The lands player goes for our black first anyways which we need to protect with stifles.

4c-loam (8)
-4 Daze
-3 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Forked Bolt
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Surgical Extraction
+1 Invasive Surgery
+2 Abrupt Decay
+1 Ancient Grudge
+1 Terminate
+1 Fire Covenant

Dazes can be ok in this matchup, I board them out anyways because I want to use my stifles completely defensively, either to counter Liliana, KotR, Wastelands, Thespian's Stage, P-Fire, Cycling etc.
Spell Pierces are nice often times, GSZ, Toxic Deluge and Liliana are all very expensive spells.
Gitaxian Probes come out because compared to lands Delirium is not necessary, Surgery still counters GSZ and Toxic Deluge and they only play 2 Loams most of the time anyways.
Removal obviously for KotR and other big stuff, Forked Bolt is a luxury cut, instant-speed of lightning bolt seems better when holding up stuff than the potential 1 damage when killing Thalia or Bob.

Infect (7)
-4 Stifle
-2 Gurmag Angler
-1 Spell Pierce
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Grim Lavamancer
+2 Cabal Therapy
+2 Abrupt Decay
+1 Fire Covenant

Stifle is just really bad vs. Infect. You really only have Fetchlands as targets preboard so all of those come out.
Pithing Needle is awesome against Inkmoth Nexus since it's really hard to hit when having to fight pump spells on your opponent's turn. It also hits Spellskite or Pendelhaven occasionally.
Spell Pierce seems bad because we do a lot of tapping out, even with our instant speed removal spells.
Abrupt Decays are fine against everything besides Inkmoth, they're one of the few removal spells we can actually save for our turn which can be quite nice. They're especially good with DRS which can be kept open and just block stuff and as soon as they overcommit (you just make mana before he dies) you blow them out.
Fire Covenant is definitely expensive, but I like the potential for x-for-1s and it's not that bad when it gets countered since life doesn't matter that much in this MU.
I feel 2 Cabal Therapies are enough: You don't want to spend too much time durdling around, but getting an idea of their hand and having a default card to name (Invigorate) seems always nice.
I really like all the FoWs and Dazes. Yes Daze can be weak sometimes when facing Noble Hierarch but hey, it still pitches to FoW

[Ltj999]

@jrsthethird
You really shouldn't board in Divert against Red Delver decks imo. I only have it against BUG/Jund and Burn. BG decks tend to tap out for Abrupt Decay and play a lot of discard, so Divert is really good there. Burn just plays like 1/2 spells that can be diverted and while they play around daze quite often they certainly don't play around spell pierce. Also gets Exquisite Firecraft.
Against Red Delver decks on the other side everybody is playing around Flusterstorm/Spell Pierce as soon as he has 3 mana by casting the removal spell first and something like cantrips later (generally speaking), at least when the opponent has a mana open.

@Manipulato
I don't think you can play any Delver deck with only 4 removal spells nowadays. I see most RUG lists with 6, personally I think 5 is fine when you have enough postboard. Most squeeze in Dismember in the mainboard, but I have enough sb cards that I think I can keep the Forked Bolt (I still hate dismember in this deck). Check out my list below.
I also agree that Force of Will is just a really good card against Eldrazi, countering their Dismember or their TKS/Endless One/Reality Smasher can give us enough tempo to just win the game. And it's always nice to force Chalice.

I actually have changed my list a bit! Still playing Grixis and still playing Abrupt Decays in the sb, but I went down to 2.
Reason being that more than 1 in hand is often times pretty awkward since your main land is still volcanic, this also let me cut the second Tropical from the sideboard. Krosan Grip was cool and really shines in some matchups, but it's just really clunky and is just a weaker card than Abrupt Decay generally speaking.

The 3 cuts (Decay, Krosan Grip, Tropical) gave me room for some cards I really wanted to play:
- Grim Lavamancer as a way to punish creature decks
- Ancient Grudge since I went down on the artifact destruction department, but still hate Eldrazi and D&T.
- Terminate to not only get rid of Angler, but also Goyfs that have Artifacts in the gy, TKSs and Reality Smashers

I still board in the 2 Decays against Tarmogoyf decks, but skip them completely against decks like e.g. Grixis Delver.
Playtested against Grixis Delver (without Decays) and Stifle BUG (with Decays) and it felt really nice. Having enough answers to Tarmogoyf is really cool, look forward to kill Chalices, RIPs and Counterbalances (which is still the main reason for the decays).

My list now looks as follows:

creatures (13)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Young Pyromancer
2 Gurmag Angler

instants and sorceries (29)
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
1 Spell Pierce

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Gitaxian Probe

4 Lightning Bolt
1 Forked Bolt


lands (18)
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
4x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
4x Wasteland

sideboard (15)
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Pyroblast
1 Hydroblast
1 Invasive Surgery
1 Divert
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Terminate
1 Fire Covenant

Being honest I didn't read your boarding strategies b/c we have pretty different approaches to the deck i.e. stifle/decay vs therapy/no decay. Buttttt I am pretty tempted for my next playgroup outing to test out a 4md stifle with one md winter orb build...

Also, on a more serious note I def think I'm gunna be redoing my sb to squeeze in 2 winter orb and a fire covenant. I find DnT (which I think of as actually one of our more rough match-ups, even more so than miracles) often bring in RiP post board, making my darkblast way way less exciting than its inclusion is intended to be.

[Agrippa91]

Being honest I didn't read your boarding strategies b/c we have pretty different approaches to the deck i.e. stifle/decay vs therapy/no decay. Buttttt I am pretty tempted for my next playgroup outing to test out a 4md stifle with one md winter orb build...

Also, on a more serious note I def think I'm gunna be redoing my sb to squeeze in 2 winter orb and a fire covenant. I find DnT (which I think of as actually one of our more rough match-ups, even more so than miracles) often bring in RiP post board, making my darkblast way way less exciting than its inclusion is intended to be.

Do you by any chance mean Abrupt Decay, not Winter Orb?

[ironclad8690]

Hey guys,

I took Alexander Hayne's list into a league and ended up 3-2.

Manaless: 2-0
Storm: 2-0
Storm: 2-1
12 Post: 0-2
Mirror: 1-2

Going to try to stream at some point today, I started another league and am 1-2. If I do, I will link the vod here.

[Agrippa91]

That sounds nice. I'm surprised by your 0-2 against 12-post. Did you have the feeling that your opponent in general had good hands or do you not feel comfortable in the matchup anyways?

[ironclad8690]

Here is the vod from today:

https://www.twitch.tv/adelorenzi/v/75250356

Shardless: 2-1

Manaless: 2-0

I made some mistakes because I was spacing out, but still a good couple of matches and good enough for 3-2 in the league.

As far as 12 Post: I think he just was lucky. Game 1 I waste the first 2 Cloudposts he plays, but he is able to Engineered Explosives my two Delvers. I get some more threats on board, but then he plays Show and Tell while my shields were down, and Emrakul is lethal against my 13 life total (from some probing much earlier and fetching).

Game 2: I didn't have a counterspell for Pithing Needle, never found a grudge for it either. I probe him and he just has glimmerposts, misty, eye, and glacial chasm, so I couldn't even Cabal Therapy anything. I get a nice army, but he just keeps gaining life from glimmerposts and then eventually plays Chasm. I didn't have a Deathrite Shaman, so I just have to sit there until he drops enough lands to find and play Emrakul in the same turn. I think he naturally drew 3 Glimmerposts + 1 Vesuva, which also copied Glimmerpost, so I just got Timewalked into oblivion.

[dedicateddan]

Thanks for the sideboard guides all!

What do you think of Grixis Delver in the Knight-Ware meta?

Recent tournament:
http://www.knight-ware.com/ccg/magic...016legacy.html

The deck didn't do particularly well in the last tournament.

Is the meta hostile to it with a bunch of anti-blue decks and few combo matchups?

[ironclad8690]

I think Grixis should be fine there. Some of those matchups are tough, but the beauty of this deck is that it stands a pretty good chance against everything but Lands. D&T might be tough, but with a Grim Lavamancer and Darkblast/other removal in your sideboard you should be fine. The lack of Eldrazi makes me think Strix might be unnecessary. Even though the Chalice/Trinisphere matchups seem bad on paper, they are close to 50/50 in real life, I have had better than 50/50 experiences against these.

[Agrippa91]

@ ironclad8690
I went through the shardless match, here's my opinion on some of the decisions:
game 1:
- I agree that this hand was a keep
- I definitely would've pondered on turn 1: It's not like you don't know what you're looking for since you really need at least 1 creature, no matter what matchup. Also making sure that you hit no land is important imo when you already have so many in hand.
- Putting back that Brainstorm for Delver to flip is wrong imo, you should've shuffled with a fetchland to get all these lands out of your hand. You still have a 50% chance that Delver flips each turn, but having so many lands is just bad for you.
- I would've dazed the DRS on the opponent's t3 for the chance of getting him off blue, but this might be my stifle-centered thinking of always getting rid of DRS.
- On your t3 I would've kept a fetchland instead of the volcanic with the BS, it would've allowed you to get a single card with the ponder in your hand by shuffling away the rest.
- (t3) I also like leading with DRS every time before YP: Not only does it bait removal spells, but if you untap you can also immediately chain cantrips, when you just tap out for YP there's a decent chance he gets you no value at all.
- on t4(?) when you played both your DRS you should've fetched for your Trop instead of playing the Usea in your hand for your 2nd DRS imo. You knew of FoW on top of your deck from your ponder and were far away from casting it. Trop can also be really important to exile Shardless's Artifacts to make your Dismembers and Angler better.
- IF you decide to draw your FoW though I definitely would've kept it open with your DRS though, not drained your opp on your turn.

sb: I can see keeping in more Forces since Shardless just doesn't have an efficient answer to this card but that's just my only-therapy-against-combo-and-stoneforge-thinking.

game 2:
- Agree with the keep though it's mediocre.
- Don't agree with Spell Pierce on his t1 eot brainstorm. If he has lands on top, he draws them anyways, if he doesn't the BS doesn't do him much good. I'd much rather save the Pierce for a Hymn, Liliana, Deluge or some cheap sideboard removal like Disfigure or Golgari Charm. Especially since you can hold open YP and Spell Pierce next turn.
- I really don't get why the opponent only suspended Visions on t2 and didn't play a land. He had one on his 3rd turn, but hasn't seen any new cards from his deck at this point because he brainstormed on the end of t1.
- I disagree with you not dazing the strix when you had a delver out. It's their best card against us. Also not bolting it prevented your delver from hitting, the bolt in the end did less than it would've done by hitting the strix.

game 3:
- I actually don't agree with the keep. The hands in g1 and g2 had brainstorm in it, keeping 4 actual lands seems pretty weak. I propably would keep this hand otp since spell pierce (for hymn) and t1 drs are really strong, but not otd where you can use your scry super effectively (and also draw an extra card anyways). Fortunately you drew Brainstorm.
- I would've played out YP and Ponder on your third turn instead of YP and Delver. I think a YP alone would've provoked a Golgari Charm if he had it, with the Golgari Charm you could've also digged for Dazes and Bolts which were really good in this position because he missed a land.
- I don't agree on keeping the ponder with DRS, Probe and Tropical when your opponent is stuck on lands and has DRS Again Removal and Dazes is what you really want here imo. It's a narrow ship though imo and I understand why you kept it.

All in all I found the match really interesting and would be interested what the other guys here think about it. I'm certainly no legacy master and would like to hear how/why some of you might disagree with my critic.
I'd be really interested

Edit: Watched the Manaless Dredge match because it was actually rather interesting. You played pretty well there!
You should've definitely boarded out the Wastelands though
I think Pithing Needle for Phantasmogorian and Pyroblast against his blue creatures could've been decent.

[MoonDark]

@ ironclad8690
I went through the shardless match, here's my opinion on some of the decisions:
game 1:
- I agree that this hand was a keep
- I definitely would've pondered on turn 1: It's not like you don't know what you're looking for since you really need at least 1 creature, no matter what matchup. Also making sure that you hit no land is important imo when you already have so many in hand.
- Putting back that Brainstorm for Delver to flip is wrong imo, you should've shuffled with a fetchland to get all these lands out of your hand. You still have a 50% chance that Delver flips each turn, but having so many lands is just bad for you.
- I would've dazed the DRS on the opponent's t3 for the chance of getting him off blue, but this might be my stifle-centered thinking of always getting rid of DRS.
- On your t3 I would've kept a fetchland instead of the volcanic with the BS, it would've allowed you to get a single card with the ponder in your hand by shuffling away the rest.
- (t3) I also like leading with DRS every time before YP: Not only does it bait removal spells, but if you untap you can also immediately chain cantrips, when you just tap out for YP there's a decent chance he gets you no value at all.
- on t4(?) when you played both your DRS you should've fetched for your Trop instead of playing the Usea in your hand for your 2nd DRS imo. You knew of FoW on top of your deck from your ponder and were far away from casting it. Trop can also be really important to exile Shardless's Artifacts to make your Dismembers and Angler better.
- IF you decide to draw your FoW though I definitely would've kept it open with your DRS though, not drained your opp on your turn.

sb: I can see keeping in more Forces since Shardless just doesn't have an efficient answer to this card but that's just my only-therapy-against-combo-and-stoneforge-thinking.

game 2:
- Agree with the keep though it's mediocre.
- Don't agree with Spell Pierce on his t1 eot brainstorm. If he has lands on top, he draws them anyways, if he doesn't the BS doesn't do him much good. I'd much rather save the Pierce for a Hymn, Liliana, Deluge or some cheap sideboard removal like Disfigure or Golgari Charm. Especially since you can hold open YP and Spell Pierce next turn.
- I really don't get why the opponent only suspended Visions on t2 and didn't play a land. He had one on his 3rd turn, but hasn't seen any new cards from his deck at this point because he brainstormed on the end of t1.
- I disagree with you not dazing the strix when you had a delver out. It's their best card against us. Also not bolting it prevented your delver from hitting, the bolt in the end did less than it would've done by hitting the strix.

game 3:
- I actually don't agree with the keep. The hands in g1 and g2 had brainstorm in it, keeping 4 actual lands seems pretty weak. I propably would keep this hand otp since spell pierce (for hymn) and t1 drs are really strong, but not otd where you can use your scry super effectively (and also draw an extra card anyways). Fortunately you drew Brainstorm.
- I would've played out YP and Ponder on your third turn instead of YP and Delver. I think a YP alone would've provoked a Golgari Charm if he had it, with the Golgari Charm you could've also digged for Dazes and Bolts which were really good in this position because he missed a land.
- I don't agree on keeping the ponder with DRS, Probe and Tropical when your opponent is stuck on lands and has DRS Again Removal and Dazes is what you really want here imo. It's a narrow ship though imo and I understand why you kept it.

All in all I found the match really interesting and would be interested what the other guys here think about it. I'm certainly no legacy master and would like to hear how/why some of you might disagree with my critic.
I'd be really interested

Edit: Watched the Manaless Dredge match because it was actually rather interesting. You played pretty well there!
You should've definitely boarded out the Wastelands though
I think Pithing Needle for Phantasmogorian and Pyroblast against his blue creatures could've been decent.

I agree with most of your observations. I think he's missing a lot of EOT brainstorm though, he should do that more. Also being a bit more aggressive with wastelands to maximize the value of dazes as overall advice.

[Agrippa91]

I agree with most of your observations. I think he's missing a lot of EOT brainstorm though, he should do that more. Also being a bit more aggressive with wastelands to maximize the value of dazes as overall advice.

Can you give an example of a spot where an eot brainstorm would've been good in your opinion? I'm generally only a fan of it when I'm stuck with too many cantrips in hand and find it especially "good" against combo.

[Vandalize]

Sup, I've been playing Canadian Threshold for a while now and decided to try its fellow tier 1 cousin. After some testing with multiple flex slots, I found a list that makes me comfortable:

Lands [18]
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland

Creatures [13]
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Young Pyromancer
2 Gurmag Angler

Spells [29]
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Dismember
1 Spell Pierce

Sideboard [15]
2 Baleful Strix
2 Pyroblast
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Winter Orb
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Flusterstorm
1 Invsasive Surgery
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Null Rod
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Engineered Explosives

I also tried the Stifle version, it has its pros and cons, the most relevant pro being protecting your lands from opposing Wasteland, followed closely by the mana denial factor. The cons are that it really sucks against some matchups (like Eldrazi) and this deck likes to tap out in turns 1~3 (when Stifle is most effective). Unlike RUG Delver, this deck's threats are more reliant on casting spells rather than holding permission in your hand.

[Agrippa91]

So here's a really stupid idea I have because I saw someone making a joke on "secret Koth tech" because Miracles was playing Blood Moon.

How about Koth of the Hammer against Miracles? Seriously: I know that Sulfuric Vortex gets played from time to time but it dies to Wear/Tear and can just fire backwards if the opponent has so much as a snapcaster alongside his lock. Koth doesn't get countered by their common counterspells, it should get through their counterbalance and also through Blood Moon!
We have 3 Mountains which should be more than enough to kill them with either animated mountains or the emblem and even if the opponent has a snapcaster he is pretty much forced to chump block because Koth just hits so hard.

It might be that I'm just drunk though but it at least seems better than Winter Orb...

Ok, here's another one: Ankh of Mishra! It's also good against Lands! Do you guys think this might be better than Winter Orb? How about a 1/1 split?

[MoonDark]

How do you guys usually SB against storm?

Removing daze g2, adding more therapies?

[Manipulato]

I would board like this:

+ 2 Pyroblast (All cantrips which is the glue of the deck)
+ 2 Invasive Surgery (Tutor, PIF, Discard etc)
+ 1 Cabal Therapy (Obvious)
+ 1 Surgical Extraction (PIF)
+ 1 Engineered Explosives (Possible EtW & LED/Petal if they play around Therapy)

- 3 Lightning Bolt (4 copies are not needed for obvious reasons)
- 2 Gurmag Angler (Too much creatures are bad & not needed, YP is better)
- 1 Murderous Cut (Useless)
- 1 Dismember (Useless)

Take out all your removal/burn exept for 1-2 Bolts for eventual Xantid Swarms. Trim down your creatures down to 12 (I would not take out YP because of Probe/Therapy & possible EtW).

I would never cut Daze vs any combo deck (exept for the Elves MU), sure it's not the best counter but it's a counter and better than anything else.

[Fox]

So here's a really stupid idea I have because I saw someone making a joke on "secret Koth tech" because Miracles was playing Blood Moon.

How about Koth of the Hammer against Miracles? Seriously: I know that Sulfuric Vortex gets played from time to time but it dies to Wear/Tear and can just fire backwards if the opponent has so much as a snapcaster alongside his lock. Koth doesn't get countered by their common counterspells, it should get through their counterbalance and also through Blood Moon!
We have 3 Mountains which should be more than enough to kill them with either animated mountains or the emblem and even if the opponent has a snapcaster he is pretty much forced to chump block because Koth just hits so hard.

It might be that I'm just drunk though but it at least seems better than Winter Orb...

Ok, here's another one: Ankh of Mishra! It's also good against Lands! Do you guys think this might be better than Winter Orb? How about a 1/1 split?

Manabarbs is probably much more effective vs miracles and lands than Koth or Ankh. Winter Orb/Vortex is probably still better than all those (also Vortex stops P-fire).

[MoonDark]

So here's a really stupid idea I have because I saw someone making a joke on "secret Koth tech" because Miracles was playing Blood Moon.

How about Koth of the Hammer against Miracles? Seriously: I know that Sulfuric Vortex gets played from time to time but it dies to Wear/Tear and can just fire backwards if the opponent has so much as a snapcaster alongside his lock. Koth doesn't get countered by their common counterspells, it should get through their counterbalance and also through Blood Moon!
We have 3 Mountains which should be more than enough to kill them with either animated mountains or the emblem and even if the opponent has a snapcaster he is pretty much forced to chump block because Koth just hits so hard.

It might be that I'm just drunk though but it at least seems better than Winter Orb...

Ok, here's another one: Ankh of Mishra! It's also good against Lands! Do you guys think this might be better than Winter Orb? How about a 1/1 split?

I don't really know what the answer to Blood Moon is, but besides countering it we have none. Went 2-3 today in an MTGO League... pretty brutal.

[Agrippa91]

I forgot that Winter Orb is of course also there against lands which is propably our worst matchup, Koth would be abysmal there.
Still against Miracles only I have the feeling Koth would be better