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Thread: Discussion: Most/least skill-intense cards of the format

  1. #21

    Re: Discussion: Most/least skill-intense cards of the format

    Most skill intensive card: Brainstorm
    (Look, ask anyone who plays blue Legacy decks on a high level and they'll tell you that misplaying Brainstorm is very easy to do, and there are tons of subtle and not obvious reasons to play it, say, in your main phase, and knowing when to hold it and when to play it is really a rare skill to perfect)

    Most overrated card: Sensei's Divining Top
    (I'm sorry, Miracles players, but stacking your library to play your Terminus for often is pretty obvious, it just takes too much time to do it)

    Most brainless card: Delver of Secrets
    (Seriously, you just pay and you have a 3/2 flyer that wins the game on its own as long as your deck is built correctly)

    Most underrated card: Chrome Mox
    (the few decks that play this card (especially Stompy decks that play this on turn 1-2) constantly have to find the right pitch target - pitch the wrong card you could lose on that alone, pitch the right card and you're off to the races, it's not always obvious and you have to think down the line)

  2. #22
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    Re: Discussion: Most/least skill-intense cards of the format

    Most skill intensive: Cabal Therapy. All the mind games involved with that card makes it hard to play.

    Most overrated: Brainstorm. That card isn't skill intensive. It's more so a fix when you played your cards/answers wrong. It's the safety net for punts.

    Most brainless card: Not gonna answer this.

    Most underrated card: Wasteland. Outside of Delver.dec, have you ever asked when to or not to Wasteland?
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
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  3. #23
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    Re: Discussion: Most/least skill-intense cards of the format

    Most skill-intensive card of the format: Ponder - It's much more difficult to play than Brainstorm. You have to cast it on your turn with your next two turns in mind. Unlike Brainstorm it forces you to take the good with the bad. You actually need to formulate a gameplan as you play it, you don't just get to dig reactively, or just put back two lands.
    Most overrated card: Batterskull - I've seen a Stoneforge Mystic tutor up Batterskull a ridiculous number of times when Batterskull was not the best piece of equipment to grab.
    Most brainless card: True-Name Nemesis - "I name You!" "Check the match-slip, bitch." *drops mic
    Most underrated card: Monastery Mentor - Just won a GP. Top 8'd the last Legacy GP. Still not a DTB staple.

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    Re: Discussion: Most/least skill-intense cards of the format

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw1985 View Post
    Most overrated card: Batterskull - I've seen a Stoneforge Mystic tutor up Batterskull a ridiculous number of times when Batterskull was not the best piece of equipment to grab.
    Don't you just love the look on your opponents' face when you cast Cabal Therapy in your turn and seemingly out of the blue *cough* *cough* name Batterskull..?

    People seldom see that one coming, for some strange reason.

  5. #25
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    Re: Discussion: Most/least skill-intense cards of the format

    Most skill-intensive cards: those that allow the widest range of options. In a vacuum, I agree on Brainstorm and blind Cabal Therapy. Both cc1s (so pretty much no restraints) the use of which greatly depends on several layers of information, stage of the game, perceived skill level of the opponent, your own skill level, psychological bluffs and percentages.

    Venser, accordingly, is as skill intensive, but slightly underpowered for the format.

    Least skill-intensive cards: those that serve a single purpose without being flexible in options. By this criteria I would even define something like Tarmogoyf to be poorly skill intensive (well, maybe you can do some tricks to pump it).

    Most overrated card: if this Modern I would have very clear answers (Cryptic Command I am looking at you), but I don't find any card in Legacy to be praised or put on a pedistal in comparison to its actual efficacy in played games.

    Most underrated card: Sulfur Elemental (answer biased though).

    -----
    EDIT: I got the most overrated one. Delver of Secrets. Inherently high-variance card that will lose you games as many times as it will win you ones (despites the cantrips, yes). Terrible later on, especially in this last metagame full of Pyroblasts and manipulation to find removals. I dare to predict that in some time (let's say the next two years) it will be cut in tempo decks if Wizards was to print another good one-drop.
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    Re: Discussion: Most/least skill-intense cards of the format

    Combo

    Most skill-intensive card of the format: Cabal Therapy (correct play - name the card you don't want opponent to have then the card he might have), Infernal Tutor, Doomsday, Chain of Vapor (it's rare to seen player use all it's potential)
    Most overrated card: Dark Petition - it doesn't resolve any problems, only give more of them like cost restriction
    Most brainless card: Gitaxian Probe (all is clear.. for 2 life), Dig Thought Time (CA in combo ? -I'm saying OmniShow), Omniscience, Griselbrand - basically every card which is too near to have you win the game.
    Most underrated card: Noxious Revival (most time it can be used as 0 mana mystic tutor

    Tempo

    Most skill-intensive card of the format: Stifle (there are so many ways to use stifle as tempo generator, most players know only 1 - stifle fetchland), Ponder
    Most overrated card: tarmogoyf (with all around cards actually tarmo isn't even as good as few uncommons but the prize tells something else)
    Most brainless card: quite a lot - Gitaxian Probe, Delver of Secrets
    Most underrated card: Leonin Arbiter

    Control
    Most skill-intensive card of the format: Sensei's Divning Top (looking how you use top define your skill, member and foreseeing specially in non-blue decks, where you can't fix bad stack so easy)
    Most overrated card: Counterbalance (most time it show how poor skill is your opponent)
    Most brainless card: Terminus (Sweeper for W on instant - sure it will be ok)
    Most underrated card: Standstill, Pernicious Deed

    Midrange
    Most skill-intensive card of the format: Green Sun's Zenith, Sylvan Library, Liliana of the Veil, Life from the Loam
    Most overrated card: Shardless Agent - without stacked Vision, it's just a 2/2 for 1 mana which isn't huge
    Most brainless card: Dig Thought Time, Tarmogoyf
    Most underrated card: Solemn Simulacrum

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    Re: Discussion: Most/least skill-intense cards of the format

    I'm going to go out on several limbs here:

    Most skill-intensive card: Vines of Vastwood - or at least it ranks up there with Doomsday as being unforgiving of mistakes.
    Most overrated card: I can't really think of any cards that don't deserve the respect they are given.
    Most brainless card: Dig Through Time - there are plenty of skillful uses for this card, but most often it seems to be "look for whatever card I need to get out of this hole"
    Most underrated card(s): Dryad Militant, Food Chain, Hymn to Tourach, Painter's Servant

  8. #28
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    Re: Discussion: Most/least skill-intense cards of the format

    Quote Originally Posted by Slag View Post
    I'm going to go out on several limbs here:

    Most skill-intensive card: Vines of Vastwood - or at least it ranks up there with Doomsday as being unforgiving of mistakes.
    Most overrated card: I can't really think of any cards that don't deserve the respect they are given.
    I think Brainstorm is often overrated vastly. It's a similar kind of thing as some Affinity boardstate: A million options, the absolute optimal one can be hard to make, but the general power of most things in the possibility space is so close and so high to the optimal case it just doesn't matter.

    Ponder is much better in that regard - it's much easier to play a bad Ponder and harder to find a good one.

    Vines of Vastwood is an AMAZING pick. That card is always harrowing to play.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear
    (On Innistrad)
    Yeah, an insanely powerful block which put the "derp!" factor in Legacy completely over the top.

  9. #29
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    Re: Discussion: Most/least skill-intense cards of the format

    Most skill-intensive card: Cabal Therapy & Brainstorm (when you have more decisions than putting excess lands back)
    Most overrated card: Not cards but mechanics: dredge, storm etc. these are not as complicated as they may first seem to newer players
    Most brainless card: Show and Tell, True-Name Nemesis, Gitaxian Probe, Chalice of the Void
    Most underrated card(s): Deathrite Shaman, but that may just be my lack of experience with it.

    EDIT: Ponder is definitely underrated as well (as my signature may prove as well )

  10. #30
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    Re: Discussion: Most/least skill-intense cards of the format

    I think people are underplaying Brainstorm. Putting the two cards back is easy enough, but sequencing it right is the real tester of the card.

    Most skill-intensive card: Cabal Therapy and Doomsday
    Most overrated card: Stoneforge Mystic
    Most brainless card: Show and Tell/Sneak Attack and Lava Spike
    Most underrated card: Veteran Explorer...slightly biased On a serious note, Envelop.

  11. #31
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    Re: Discussion: Most/least skill-intense cards of the format

    Most skill-intensive card of the format: Brainstorm
    Most overrated card: Gitaxian Probe
    Most brainless card: Delver of Secrets
    Most underrated card: During GPNJ I would have said Dig Through Time, now I'd say Sudden Shock

  12. #32

    Re: Discussion: Most/least skill-intense cards of the format

    Most skill-intensive card of the format: Doomsday
    Most overrated card: Tarmogoyf
    Most brainless card: Dig Through Time
    Most underrated card: Basic Island
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  13. #33
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    Re: Discussion: Most/least skill-intense cards of the format

    Does being more or less "skill-intensive", make a card better or worse? More or less powerful?

    What even defines "skill-intensive"? More possibly lines of play? More decisions invloved? More reliance on imperfect information? Does it take into context game state or the rest of the deck?

    Or is this just another anti-blue circlejerk?
    I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel

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  14. #34

    Re: Discussion: Most/least skill-intense cards of the format

    Most skill-intensive card of the format: Gifts Ungiven (of the game), SDT in legacy
    Most overrated card: Island
    Most brainless card: Enter the Infinite
    Most underrated card: SDT

  15. #35

    Re: Discussion: Most/least skill-intense cards of the format

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    Does being more or less "skill-intensive", make a card better or worse? More or less powerful? ...
    It may be that OP doesn't know what people mean when they write, "Brainstorm is skill-intensive" and is seeking clarification.

  16. #36
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    Re: Discussion: Most/least skill-intense cards of the format

    White
    Most skill-intensive card of the format: Flickerwisp
    Most overrated card: Stoneforge Mystic (I just don't think she's that good anymore)
    Most brainless card: Iona, Shield of Emeria
    Most underrated card: Monastery Mentor (but I think after Lille people are starting to see it) and Humility

    Blue
    Most skill-intensive card of the format: Vendilion Clique, Brainstorm, Ponder, and DTT. Sometimes no-brainers other times you win or lose based on these decisions
    Most overrated card: Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    Most brainless card: Show and Tell
    Most underrated card: Intuition (can also be very skill intensive in certain decks) and In the Eye of Chaos

    Red
    Most skill-intensive card of the format: (eh it's red) Burning Wish maybe?
    Most overrated card: Monastery Swiftspear
    Most brainless card: Lava Spike
    Most underrated card: Gamble (does get some love in Lands)

    Green
    Most skill-intensive card of the format: I agree with Sylvan Library or GSZ
    Most overrated card:
    Most brainless card: Goyf
    Most underrated card: Mirri's Guile

    Black
    Most skill-intensive card of the format: Early Thoughtseize/Duress/Cabal Therapy can determine the game
    Most overrated card:
    Most brainless card: Exhume/Reanimate
    Most underrated card: Tombstalker, Nether Void, and Gloom in the SB

    Multi
    Most skill-intensive card of the format: knowing how to use your Deathrite Shaman properly
    Most overrated card:
    Most brainless card: Progenitus
    Most underrated card: Gaddock Teeg (he shuts down entire decks if not answered!) or Dack Fayden

    Artifact
    Most skill-intensive card of the format: Top (half the skill is doing this quickly so you don't get a draw)
    Most overrated card: Batterskull
    Most brainless card: Metalworker
    Most underrated card: Scroll Rack
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  17. #37

    Re: Discussion: Most/least skill-intense cards of the format

    Most skill-intensive card of the format: Didgeridoo
    Most overrated card: Bone Flute
    Most brainless card: Amnesia
    Most underrated card: Ebony Rhino

  18. #38

    Re: Discussion: Most/least skill-intense cards of the format

    Most skill-intensive cards of the format: Cabal Therapy, Doomsday, Gifts Ungiven.
    Most overrated card: Force of Will.
    Most brainless card: Dig Through Time.
    Most underrated card: Darkblast.

  19. #39
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    Re: Discussion: Most/least skill-intense cards of the format

    Quote Originally Posted by Piceli89 View Post
    I dare to predict that in some time (let's say the next two years) it will be cut in tempo decks if Wizards was to print another good one-drop.
    Well Delver is usually the worst card in any Delver deck. But when your worst card is one of the fastest clocks in Legacy, what does that say about the rest of your deck?

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    Re: Discussion: Most/least skill-intense cards of the format

    I can't believe I am the only one thinking Counterbalance is as stupid as it gets and on a level with SnT in terms of "what do I do with this card?".

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