[BFZ]Battle for Zendikar spoilers thread

[Tokugawa]

Merfolk has 2 lords and Phantasmal Image :P

Slivers could also run images.

[QBChaz]

Slivers could also run images.

So could everyone else. 1U is hardly an unsplashable cost in any Legacy deck. Merfolk lords also grant evasion at which point stacking more +1/+1 pumps becomes very relevant which is one of the reasons why that deck plays 12 to 14 lords and non-combo beatdown Elves is not a thing.

[rufus]

Maybe they will make it "good" this time, though "good" means limited and kitchen table playable.

Allies really aren't that far from hitting eternal power levels, and there's a lot of design space that the tribe could still usefully explore.

[Richard Cheese]

Everyone's already forgotten about Hardened Scales?

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Everyone's already forgotten about Hardened Scales?

Nope.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Nope.

Hah! Yeah, based on your signature it looks like TsumiBand remembers it exists.

Also, I feel obligated to point out that this thread is going to be an off-topic shit show for the next few months...

On-topic-ish?
If WotC does it right, Allies could be a credible deck in Modern after BfZ.

[iamajellydonut]

I mean, I'm at least trying to forget about it.

[Aggro_zombies]

I have "fond" memories of allies if only because that mechanic was literally the only break you got from the endless tedium of "one- or two-color mono-two-drop aggro" in triple Zendikar limited. And by "fond," I mean the mechanic was utterly forgettable even when it was current, just because it was patently a slivers knockoff.

I guess I'm glad they're bringing that back as opposed to Landfall. Zendikar and Zendikar-Worldwake limited were miserable in no small part because Landfall stacked things so heavily in the favor of the active player.

[Richard Cheese]

I have "fond" memories of allies if only because that mechanic was literally the only break you got from the endless tedium of "one- or two-color mono-two-drop aggro" in triple Zendikar limited. And by "fond," I mean the mechanic was utterly forgettable even when it was current, just because it was patently a slivers knockoff.

I guess I'm glad they're bringing that back as opposed to Landfall. Zendikar and Zendikar-Worldwake limited were miserable in no small part because Landfall stacked things so heavily in the favor of the active player.

Is Landfall confirmed as not in? I just assumed it would be, along with a reprint of all the fetches. (Note to self, sell off all Zen fetches)

[Ace/Homebrew]

Is Landfall confirmed as not in? I just assumed it would be, along with a reprint of all the fetches. (Note to self, sell off all Zen fetches)

It took WotC 13 years to reprint the Onslaught fetchlands. It's only been 6 years since Zendikar. I'm not saying it will take 13 years, but I personally suspect they will be reprinted in a future Modern Masters (3 or 4). Selling off your Zen fetches may give you a headache come October when the prices spike after confirmation of no reprint.

For what it's worth:

• I do not expect full art lands
• I do not believe we will see Landfall return
• Our heroes will defeat Ulamog
• The search for Kozilek and Emrakul will continue until everyone is bored with it

The only item on my wishlist is that WotC complete the cycle of dual-colored man-lands.

[iamajellydonut]

For what it's worth:

• The search for Kozilek and Emrakul will continue until everyone is bored with it

What if we're already bored of it?

[Ace/Homebrew]

What if we're already bored of it?

Then you can enjoy playing with Allies.




WotC really put themselves in an awkward position by not defeating the Eldrazi the first time around...

If they print a nerfed Ulamog, everyone will complain about the nerfing.
If they power creep, Show and Tell gets better.

[Phoenix Ignition]

You guys remember when UG survival was the biggest thing ever? The Vengevine deck that got Survival banned? I loved that thing.

Then I took it to an SCG and in the 3-0 bracket got my ass fucking handed to me by a guy who metagamed everyone with an Allies deck. I shit you not, he beat 2 other UG Survival decks to get to me, and dream crushed me with a 2-0 as well. It's cute getting a 4/3 with haste out on turn 2, but you know what can eat salad elementals like no one's business?

Kazandu Blademaster.

He got 2 of these things to 3/3 or higher and I was just locked out of the game. That card withHada Freeblade, Ondu Cleric, and Aether Vial were enough to easily destroy the scariest, banworthiest deck in recent Legacy history.

Everyone here thinks they aren't scary or good, and maybe they won't be now that Miracles is fucking everywhere, but that deck still gives me nightmares.

[Lord Seth]

It took WotC 13 years to reprint the Onslaught fetchlands. It's only been 6 years since Zendikar. I'm not saying it will take 13 years, but I personally suspect they will be reprinted in a future Modern Masters (3 or 4).

There's no good reason to put the fetchlands in Modern Masters. Fetchlands move booster packs incredibly well, and putting them in Modern Masters, a set with a limited print run, is a complete and utter waste. You put then in Standard sets because those have unlimited print runs and you make a whole lot more money doing so. When the choices are "make a small amount of money" versus "make a lot of money" the latter is going to win out, particularly considering that unlike some other cards, they're completely harmless in Standard.

All that said, I think there might not be fetchlands in Battle for Zendikar. They may not want all 10 fetchlands simultaneously Standard legal. Additionally, while the fetchlands can go potentially into any block, the dual manlands are more unique to the Zendikar plane. Additionally, with the return of the enemy painlands, it would be odd to have only enemy fetchlands in Battle for Zendikar, as that destabilizes the color fixing in favor of the enemy colors (unless the enemy fetchlands are accompanied by the allied manlands, but I think they would want to complete the manland cycle). My prediction is that we'll see the manlands in Zendikar (probably with the cycle completed) and the enemy fetchlands will be in the block after Zendikar. But there's basically no way they're going to waste such a valuable and Standard-friendly reprint on Modern Masters.

As for Landfall, considering that's apparently one of the most popular mechanics they've done (according to Mark Rosewater, anyway), it's hard to see them not returning it, particularly while the fetchlands are around. If they have fetchlands in the block after this, landfall will be simultaneously legal with the fetchlands for its entire Standard tenure.

[sjmcc13]

It took WotC 13 years to reprint the Onslaught fetchlands.

Onslaught came out in 2012, so 12 years actually.
Though they were not expensive enough to need a re-print for a most of that 12 year span. and there was need gameplay need until Modern started to become a success.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Onslaught came out in 2012, so 12 years actually.
Though they were not expensive enough to need a re-print for a most of that 12 year span. and there was need gameplay need until Modern started to become a success.

I assume 2012 is a typo.

Wikipedia says Onslaught came out in October of 2002.
Khans came out in October-ish of 2014. So yeah, my bad. 12 years.

I think I understand your second point (but again, typos ), but Modern would not have affected the price of Onslaught fetches because they were not legal for Modern until the Khans reprint.

They may not want all 10 fetchlands simultaneously Standard legal.

Excellent point! That'll be my reasoning now too.

[sjmcc13]

I assume 2012 is a typo.

Yes, I make allot. Especially when rushing to get a thought out of my head.

but Modern would not have affected the price of Onslaught fetches because they were not legal for Modern until the Khans reprint.

Price now, that would likely have come from EDH, but it would have created a demand for a re-print to get the cycle into modern. to balance out the color/mana options a bit more, as only having enemy fetches did put some weight on decks using those combinations.

[ReAnimator]

They may not want all 10 fetchlands simultaneously Standard legal.

It's possible that their philosophy is "get it over with" so rather than having multiple era's of standard with infinite shuffling you overlap them so you don't drag or space it out forever. The price of Zen fetches is an issue in modern already, and Wotc seems to be attempting (unsuccessfully) to keep the secondary market under control. Also if landfall is in the set, but fetches aren't, then once Khans rotates out of standard BFZ will have a year of landfall being essentially unplayable, which is a pretty miserable experience for people who buy into it.

[T-101]

I too think that "get fetch lands over with" could be their plan. Putting them in the Zendikar small set would mean they would be legal in Standard for the shortest possible duration, and then all the fetches would be over and done with for another 5+ years.

Allies were sweet in draft, probably no constructed applications, don't really care.

I'm just hoping for the enemy manlands, and maybe throw us Legacyfolk the usual 1-3 cards in the "not completely awful to good" range.

[Richard Cheese]

Modern would not have affected the price of Onslaught fetches because they were not legal for Modern until the Khans reprint.

Modern wasn't driving the price of the Onslaught fetches up, but reprinting them helped drive the price of Zendikar fetches down. From the data on mtgstocks, it looks like all the Zen fetches took a small dive shortly before the release of Kahns, although they all took a much bigger dive right before Journey to Nix. Not sure what happened there, maybe that's when the Khans fetches actually got spoiled, or something to do with Modern 'season'?

Why the hell didn't I sell my Tarns at $100 each?!?!