Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 34 of 34

Thread: Eight Rack

  1. #21
    Member
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    New Gloucester, Maine, USA
    Posts

    2,344

    Re: Eight Rack

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    Speaking of... an 'un-revolted' Push also takes care of Goyf 100% of the time, whereas Dismember only usually takes care of Goyf.
    But another reason I choose Dismember over push is that it dodges Chalice of the Void on 1 despite having the option to spend 1 mana on it. CotV really destroys this deck, but usually they have to topdeck it in order for it to stick.
    Chalice was the main reason I splashed green, when I did actually play the deck. Tarmogoyf + Abrupt decay were completely worth splashing for, IMHO. The Verdant Catacombs turned on revolt, Abrupt Decay dealt with a ton of stuff, Tarmogoyf was able to block (basically the sub for Ensnaring Bridge), and I was able to sideboard some nasty stuff (mostly Back to Nature and Maelstrom Pulse, but Scavenging Ooze was really nice as well.)
    Approaching transcendence
    I see clarity through deprivation

    -Suffocation-

  2. #22
    plays Mountains
    Ace/Homebrew's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2011
    Location

    Philadelphia Area
    Posts

    1,737

    Re: Eight Rack

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Chalice was the main reason I splashed green, when I did actually play the deck. Tarmogoyf + Abrupt decay were completely worth splashing for, IMHO.
    What did you cut to make room for Goyf and Decay?

  3. #23
    Member
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    New Gloucester, Maine, USA
    Posts

    2,344

    Re: Eight Rack

    It depends on the build; some use Smallpox, some don't. The basic premise was swap out Ensnaring Bridge for Tarmogoyf and instead of playing some mix of Dismember/Fatal Push I played a combination of Abrupt Decay/Fatal Push.

    Here is my list (from memory, it's been a few months since I've played it):

    4x Tarmogoyf
    4x The Rack
    3x Shrieking Affliction
    4x Inquisition of Kozilek
    3x Thoughtseize
    4x Raven's Crime
    4x Wrench Mind
    3x Liliana of the Veil
    3x Abrupt Decay
    2x Fatal Push

    4x Verdant Catacombs
    1x Marsh Flats
    1x Windswept Heath
    2x Overgrown Tomb
    2x Woodland Cemetery
    4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    3x Swamp
    2x Forest
    2x hissing quagmire
    3x Ghost Quarter

    Sideboard
    2x Back to Nature
    1x Maelstrom Pulse
    3x Obstinate Baloth
    2x Surgical Extraction
    1x Nihil Spellbomb
    4x Leyline of Sanctity
    2x Darkblast

    I found that the Abrupt Decays helped out against Affinity, which can be even if you have a rack-heavy hand but usually turns into a pure race. Like I said, Decay was great against Chalice (which was also getting quite a bit of play at the time.) Almost every deck has targets for it, something that sneaks out under the discard spells. I wanted Leyline of Sanctity for the Burn and Ad nauseam matchups decks (faced 1 of each in the tournament I played.) Back to Nature also helps big time against opposing Leyline of Sanctity decks (Ad Nauseam, Bogles) allowing the discard to really do its job. Tarmogoyf put in tons of work against small creature decks and held it's own against Tasigur/Young Pyromancer (grixis was really popular at the time.)

    EDIT: If I played it today, I would play some number of Dark Confidant in the maindeck. The deck's curve is super low and having opponent's split their attention between Bob/Goyf/Racks seems like a good pickle to put them in. The danger is cutting down too much of the discard, but Bob should draw into the discard more frequently as well. I would also play some number of Blooming Marsh as well, possibly cutting down on some of the basics/GQ's. I wanted the fetches to have plenty of targets that wouldn't cost me life, while also turning on revolt.
    Approaching transcendence
    I see clarity through deprivation

    -Suffocation-

  4. #24
    plays Mountains
    Ace/Homebrew's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2011
    Location

    Philadelphia Area
    Posts

    1,737

    Re: Eight Rack

    Thanks for sharing the list and explaining your card choices!
    Sounds like you were customizing for your meta, which is generally a good call.

    It appears we have conflicting views on some aspects of the deck, which is fine.
    For instance, I do not see the benefit of having any creatures in the main deck. If I can make all of their removal worthless, then the choices of what to take with Inquisition or Thoughtseize become pretty simple. That and playing creatures + Smallpox is a non-bo.

    I also feel splashing opens you up to occasional losses you would otherwise have not incurred. Losses to Blood Moon, Leonin Arbiter, and such. Admittedly it also gives you outs to situations you cannot handle in mono-black, but I have not found my meta to be hostile enough to truly consider it.
    I'm still testing Bontu's Last Reckoning, but I suspect it is the real deal. And against decks like Affinity, it is easy to go -3 Wrench Mind / + 3 Bontu's. Granted that is an option you never had access to when you were playing the deck.

    This Friday is Modern again at my LGS. Hoping to get some more reps in. I'm due for a lousy night since I did so well last time.

  5. #25
    Member
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    New Gloucester, Maine, USA
    Posts

    2,344

    Re: Eight Rack

    I don't think we have conflicting views, just different goals. I was ok with the risk of having opponent's removal be good against Tarmogoyf. I saw it as a Raven's Crime that cost 1G. It was a higher risk/higher reward type of situation, because Tarmogoyf literally won me games I should have lost while in some games he ate a Spell Snare/Path to Exile/Terminate. My metagame was stuffed full of small creature decks, so Smallpox and Ensnaring Bridge might have been lackluster. I was also ok with the potential for Blood Moon because it was out of favor in my metagame. Tron/Eldrazi wasn't dominating and the three color decks like Jeskai/Grixis had plenty of ways to deal with it. The most popular deck at the time was easily Death's Shadow variants (jund and grixis mostly.) As you said, I was just tailoring to the metagame.

    I found in testing before my tournament/play stint that Thoughtseize into Tarmogoyf is just plain awesome, whether playing Jund, Death's Shadow...or 8rack. What 8rack does better is play against the low-to-the-ground decks by capitalizing their low count hands and limited resources. The get to top-deck mode quickly, especially after only 1-2 discard spells, which is exactly where Shrieking Affliction and The Rack are best. Tarmogoyf quickens the clock, blocks opposing Tarmogoyfs/dudes, and the deck-building cost was minimal (in my opinion.)

    I am not advocating for the splash, not at all. Just giving my experience with it. Mono-black has its own strengths (SMALLPOX!) and Mutavault gets you there just the same as Tarmogoyf, if a little slower. Play style factors in as well; I like to play a tempo game rather than a hard control game. I play pox in legacy, sometimes mono-black, sometimes Bg with Dark Depths. Those are more akin to a hard-control game. In modern I don't think that plan works very well, I think its much more tempo-oriented. I wanted to keep up.

    TL;DR - I am not advocating a green splash, just sharing my experience with it and reasons why I tried it. Eight Rack is typically a budget deck, but I think it has a great power level and I was trying to 'power' it up more with Goyfs/Decay, with mixed results.

    Good luck! Rack 'em up baby!
    Approaching transcendence
    I see clarity through deprivation

    -Suffocation-

  6. #26
    plays Mountains
    Ace/Homebrew's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2011
    Location

    Philadelphia Area
    Posts

    1,737

    Re: Eight Rack

    Went 3-1 at this weeks Modern FNM. The last round loss was very disappointing.
    I think 14 people showed up.

    Instants (6)
    2 Funeral Charm
    4 Dismember

    Sorceries (18)
    4 Raven's Crime
    3 Thoughtseize
    4 Inquisition of Kozilek
    4 Smallpox
    3 Wrench Mind

    Enchantments (4)
    4 Shrieking Affliction

    Planeswalkers (4)
    4 Liliana of the Veil

    Artifacts (4)
    4 The Rack

    Lands (24)
    4 Mutavault
    4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    16 Swamp

    Sideboard (15)
    4 Leyline of the Void
    2 Surgical Extraction
    4 Death's Shadow
    3 Bontu's Last Reckoning
    2 Flaying Tendrils

    R1 - Scapeshift, 2-0
    Same opponent as last time. But the games were more lop-sided than before.
    Boarded out 2 Dismember for 2 Surgical Extraction in game 2.

    R2 - Elves, 2-0
    I won the die roll and chose to play. He kept a 1-land hand with a few mana dorks. I played Smallpox turn 2 and he never recovered.
    -2 Thoughtseize, +2 Flaying Tendrils. Smallpox and removal kept the board clean. Raven's Crime and extra lands kept his hand empty.

    R3 - Counters Company, 2-1
    I won the die roll and chose to play. He takes the first game as I struggle with his board presence.
    -3 Thoughtseize, -1 Dismember +2 Flaying Tendrils, +2 Bontu's Last Reckoning. I play an early Smallpox and the game devolves to us just having 2 or 3 lands in play without any cards in hand after I finally get enough mana to clear his board with Flaying Tendrils. I stabilize at 7 life and Mutavault gets there.
    I was concerned that I over-boarded in game 2, so I put a Thoughtseize back and took out a Bontu's. I mull to 6 and he's on the play. He takes a Shrieking Affliction early with Tidehollow Sculler. His board presence grows, but he is never close to combo-ing out. I stick 2 copies of the Rack and we race. With me at 9 life, he swings with his team for exactsies. I animate Mutavault and block Sculler to get back my Affliction and stop 2 damage. I untap, draw a land, retrace Raven's Crime, play Affliction and win during his upkeep.

    R4 - Jund Infect, 0-2
    Pre-Probe-ban-Infect was always an amazingly good match up. He mulls to 5 (!) and is on the play. His infector is a Inkmoth Nexus, which I struggle to stop... At 6 poison, I Funeral Charm it when he attacks. He plays Might of Old Krosa, making it a 5/2 and kills me.
    I board in a single Surgical Extraction and remove a Thoughtseize. Once again Inkmoth Nexus is the infector that kills me because he has the protection for it when I go to kill it. Wah wah...



    I think I will swap the number of Bontu's and Tendrils in the board. Exiling the creatures is huge and much of the format is X/2.

  7. #27
    Member
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    New Gloucester, Maine, USA
    Posts

    2,344

    Re: Eight Rack

    I know it makes a less reliable mana-base considering you already have 4 colorless lands, but I always liked having 1-2 maindeck Ghost Quarters. It is there for the obvious uses against Tron but it has a ton of splash value across multiple decks. Celestial Colonnade, Raging Ravine, and Inkmoth/Blinkmoth Nexus are all juicy targets that somehow seem to slip by discard. The removal is usually not fantastic against man-lands (although that changed with Fatal Push) but Ghost Quarter is uncounterable save for fringe cards. I suppose your Dismembers do great work against man-lands but I'd rather hedge and squeeze in 1 GQ anyways.

    Nice finish! Easily one of my favorite budget decks in the format (but storm will forever be my favorite deck in the format, period, lol.)
    Approaching transcendence
    I see clarity through deprivation

    -Suffocation-

  8. #28
    plays Mountains
    Ace/Homebrew's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2011
    Location

    Philadelphia Area
    Posts

    1,737

    Re: Eight Rack

    Thanks Mr. S!

    I actually like the idea of putting up to 2 GQ in the sideboard. And I have enough redundancy in there already that finding 2 slots will be easy.
    I'm leaning towards this sideboard configuration for now:

    Sideboard (15)
    4 Leyline of the Void
    1 Surgical Extraction
    4 Death's Shadow
    2 Bontu's Last Reckoning
    2 Flaying Tendrils
    2 Ghost Quarter

    It's unlikely I'll be able to attend the next Modern FNM, so my next report is gonna be at least a month away. But I look forward to trying out the Ghost Quarters!

  9. #29
    plays Mountains
    Ace/Homebrew's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2011
    Location

    Philadelphia Area
    Posts

    1,737

    Re: Eight Rack

    Went 2-2 this week for Modern FNM.

    Instants (6)
    2 Funeral Charm
    4 Dismember

    Sorceries (18)
    4 Raven's Crime
    3 Thoughtseize
    4 Inquisition of Kozilek
    4 Smallpox
    3 Wrench Mind

    Enchantments (4)
    4 Shrieking Affliction

    Planeswalkers (4)
    4 Liliana of the Veil

    Artifacts (4)
    4 The Rack

    Lands (24)
    4 Mutavault
    4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    16 Swamp

    Sideboard (15)
    4 Leyline of the Void
    3 Ghost Quarter
    4 Death's Shadow
    2 Bontu's Last Reckoning
    2 Flaying Tendrils

    R1 - Grixis Death's Shadow, 2-0
    Was never in any real danger this round. I had removal when I needed it and he drew lands at inopportune times.

    R2 - Bant Counters Company, 0-2
    Last time I faced this opponent, he was on the / build. I won the round because he made a fatal mistake which I capitalized on. I wasn't as lucky this time, although the individual games were actually quite close. The second game ended when he ultimated Nissa, Steward of Elements.

    R3 - 4 Color Death's Shadow, 2-1
    An interesting build that utilizes Ranger of Eos and Lingering Souls. Game 1 was an easy win. Game 2 he got me by going wide enough with Souls that my Small Pox couldn't deal with his Tasigur. Game 3 he flashed back double Souls into my Bontu's Last Reckoning, which he should have known I was holding from an earlier Thoughtseize...

    R4 - Burn, 1-2
    Game 1 was miserable and I quickly boarded in 4 Death's Shadow, which ate him alive for game 2. Game 3 was a battle! My hand was amazing, but he went T1 GG, T2 Eidolon, T3 Eidolon. I was able to play 1 Death's Shadow but my second copy was stranded in my hand after the 4 damage from resolving my initial copy dropped me to 6 life. I played Mutavaults on each of my next 2 turns and it looked like I had a chance to turn the tide with my enormous Shadow, but his life total was padded enough that he could afford to take 8 damage in order to do 6 to me...

    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    In other news...
    Tom Ross got 4th at the SCG Modern Open in Louisville this weekend.

    Instants (6)
    1 Dismember
    3 Fatal Push
    2 Funeral Charm

    Sorceries (18)
    4 Inquisition of Kozilek
    4 Raven's Crime
    4 Smallpox
    3 Thoughtseize
    3 Wrench Mind

    Enchantments (4)
    4 Shrieking Affliction

    Planeswalkers (4)
    4 Liliana of the Veil

    Artifacts (4)
    4 The Rack

    Lands (24)
    15 Swamp
    1 Marsh Flats
    4 Mutavault
    4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth


    Sideboard (15)
    1 Asylum Visitor
    2 Death's Shadow
    4 Leyline of the Void
    1 Fatal Push
    1 Shadow of Doubt
    2 Bontu's Last Reckoning
    4 Delirium Skeins


    I'm fairly curious about the Delirium Skeins in the sideboard. Specifically about what matchups they are good in and what he removed to fit them. I'm going to guess they come in for Liliana against Storm decks...

  10. #30
    Member
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    New Gloucester, Maine, USA
    Posts

    2,344

    Re: Eight Rack

    Delirium Skeins is to work around Leyline of Sanctity (mostly from storm, but Ad Nauseam is getting popular again and that deck has been on Leyline forever), because it doesn't target. Eight rack is absurdly weak to a resolved Leyline. It probably still isn't enough to work around it, but it allows a chance for racing. Both storm and ad nauseam have a hard time when losing 3 cards, regardless of which ones they are. My guess is he would hedge on keeping in the thoughtseize/iok's and sideboard out the raven's crimes or Wrench Minds. Skeins also works better against affinity than Wrench Mind, but by turn 3 their hand is usually empty anyways (Bromat has changed that dynamic slightly, but I hold to the theory that he boards it in against Leylines.)

    I still love this deck, but I'm having way too much fun playing jeskai delver atm. I went 4-2 with it on Saturday at a PPTQ.
    Approaching transcendence
    I see clarity through deprivation

    -Suffocation-

  11. #31
    plays Mountains
    Ace/Homebrew's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2011
    Location

    Philadelphia Area
    Posts

    1,737

    Re: Eight Rack

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Delirium Skeins is to work around Leyline of Sanctity.
    Makes total sense! Thanks for filling me in.

  12. #32

    Re: Eight Rack

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    Makes total sense! Thanks for filling me in.
    Ari Lax also has a video on the deck uploaded today; he said (after asking Tom) that the Delirium Skeins are mostly just a generically good card to bring in for matchups where you want to board your removal out, although the Leyline thing might also be a factor.

  13. #33

  14. #34
    Member
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    New Gloucester, Maine, USA
    Posts

    2,344

    Re: Eight Rack

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    Ari Lax also has a video on the deck uploaded today; he said (after asking Tom) that the Delirium Skeins are mostly just a generically good card to bring in for matchups where you want to board your removal out, although the Leyline thing might also be a factor.
    Nice, thanks! I was going to mention that video as well, which I haven't seen yet but its in my queue.
    Approaching transcendence
    I see clarity through deprivation

    -Suffocation-

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)