Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 145

Thread: (Article) Format Problems and Solutions by Shaheen Soorani

  1. #21
    Site Contributor
    Admiral_Arzar's Avatar
    Join Date

    Feb 2010
    Location

    Denver, CO
    Posts

    1,289

    Re: (Article) Format Problems and Solutions by Shaheen Soorani

    Quote Originally Posted by MGB View Post
    There is this persistent myth that banning Top would be a huge loss for so many non-blue strategies. Where is this coming from? Top is the centerpiece of one and only one deck in Legacy: Miracles. It occasionally will see play as a 1-of or 2-of in random BGx decks, Storm decks, Cloudpost decks, but never as the centerpiece of those decks or even an essential component in their strategies. There is basically no deck that is truly hurt by an SDT ban other than Miracles.
    This is an outright lie. Imperial Painter, which was a strong contender until the printing of Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time, usually plays 3-4 Top as it is the only reasonable card selection tool and has strong synergy with some specific cards in the deck (Welder, Bridge). I won't even bother discussing other decks because the mere existence of Painter completely invalidates your argument.
    Lord of the Chalice

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    Since playing against Spiral Tide provides a lot fun for both players is something only someone who's not had sex for quite a while could enjoy, I pull out GW Maverick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brainstorm Ape View Post
    Spikes are supposed to enjoy winning by leveraging their talents, but this card can't fetch the most SKILL INTENSIVE card in all of Magic?

    Clearly aimed at Modern plebs, not gonna be a pillar of our format.
    Stompy Discord: https://discord.gg/6cesvkz

  2. #22
    Member

    Join Date

    Jan 2005
    Location

    I actually live in actual Chicago
    Posts

    679

    Re: (Article) Format Problems and Solutions by Shaheen Soorani

    Quote Originally Posted by maharis View Post
    I would've liked to read an article from a guy who just finished second about his deck selection and matchups.
    He's changed 6 cards in his 75 since 2012, how much can he really have to say?

  3. #23

    Re: (Article) Format Problems and Solutions by Shaheen Soorani

    Are legacy matches - or matches with miracles and lands in particular running to time particularly frequently?

  4. #24

    Re: (Article) Format Problems and Solutions by Shaheen Soorani

    Most of the apes debating this don't even know what Null Rod does.

  5. #25

    Re: (Article) Format Problems and Solutions by Shaheen Soorani

    Quote Originally Posted by nedleeds View Post
    Most of the apes debating this don't even know what Null Rod does.
    It does nothing.

  6. #26

    Re: (Article) Format Problems and Solutions by Shaheen Soorani

    So assuming top is banned, what happens to Miracles? IE what becomes the best control deck? Does counterbalance strictly for value become a thing?

    This is not an argument for or against banning Top, just curious what a good UWx control deck would look like without it.


    Also, maybe a better argument Shaheen could make would be banning something like counterbalance or terminus. That way other decks can still play top, but not so many people would play top that it would gum up the works too much?

    Really doesn't seem fair to the actually good Miracles players out there though. And this is from someone who plays combo pretty much exclusively, so I ought to be drooling at the thought of all this nerfing Miracles talk.

  7. #27
    get outta here, humanity.
    iamajellydonut's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2009
    Location

    Butugychag
    Posts

    2,031

    Re: (Article) Format Problems and Solutions by Shaheen Soorani

    Quote Originally Posted by alaska View Post
    just curious what a ... UWx control deck would look like without it.
    It would look like an enormous piece of shit. Otherwise known as Stoneblade.

  8. #28
    Pray for Rain
    Tammit67's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2010
    Location

    Philadelphia, PA, USA
    Posts

    1,534

    Re: (Article) Format Problems and Solutions by Shaheen Soorani

    SCG DC this weekend didn't progress at that slow of a pace. Player meeting started at 10 pm and day 1 ended at 8:15 pm for 9 rounds of magic. Of the ~600 minutes it took to complete the event, 450 of it were spent in the 50 minute rounds themselves, leaving an average of ~18 minutes for players in turns, extentions, and pairings/reseating. That sounds fine to me when handling 500+ people.
    Matt Bevenour in real life

  9. #29
    Land Destruction Enthusiast
    Megadeus's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jul 2012
    Location

    Kennesaw, GA
    Posts

    5,572

    Re: (Article) Format Problems and Solutions by Shaheen Soorani

    Quote Originally Posted by Malakai View Post
    Banning Brainstorm decimates the blue decks. Have fun playing green dudes against Belcher twice a tournament.

    If you want to weaken blue, the best card to ban is Ponder. You weaken miracles, you weaken delver, and you weaken combo, but all the decks continue to function.
    This myth has already been debunked several times so I won't even go into the math involved to your argument that really has no basis at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

  10. #30

    Re: (Article) Format Problems and Solutions by Shaheen Soorani

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar View Post
    This is an outright lie. Imperial Painter, which was a strong contender until the printing of Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time, usually plays 3-4 Top as it is the only reasonable card selection tool and has strong synergy with some specific cards in the deck (Welder, Bridge). I won't even bother discussing other decks because the mere existence of Painter completely invalidates your argument.
    That's one fringe tier 2 archetype that rarely places top-8 in any significant tournaments. And ask any Painter player if an SDT ban would make the deck unplayable - they'd probably tell you that as long as the Painter/Grindstone combo is in the format, and Imperial Recruiter and Pyroblasts are as well, then the deck is still playable as much as any fringe tier 2 deck is playable.

  11. #31

    Re: (Article) Format Problems and Solutions by Shaheen Soorani

    Quote Originally Posted by Tammit67 View Post
    SCG DC this weekend didn't progress at that slow of a pace. Player meeting started at 10 pm and day 1 ended at 8:15 pm for 9 rounds of magic. Of the ~600 minutes it took to complete the event, 450 of it were spent in the 50 minute rounds themselves, leaving an average of ~18 minutes for players in turns, extentions, and pairings/reseating. That sounds fine to me when handling 500+ people.
    Using a small sample size of anecdotal evidence from one event is really not going to add much to the discussion of slow play philosophy and potential bannings based on long-term tournament trends.

  12. #32
    Pray for Rain
    Tammit67's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2010
    Location

    Philadelphia, PA, USA
    Posts

    1,534

    Re: (Article) Format Problems and Solutions by Shaheen Soorani

    Quote Originally Posted by MGB View Post
    Using a small sample size of anecdotal evidence from one event is really not going to add much to the discussion of slow play philosophy and potential bannings based on long-term tournament trends.
    That's not what anecdotal means. Those were the actual start and end times for round 1 and round 9. Anecdotal is the defined as what the author is doing in this article
    Quote Originally Posted by From Author comments
    I have no mined data, full breakdowns of the mtgo/paper metagame at each IQ, GP, and Open, nor do I have the time to acquire that said information. I just played hundreds of matches, either online, or live in testing or at the GP/Open level, and what I wrote was my experience.

    This is an opinion piece that is written with a jovial tone about my feelings (biased control mage feelings) about each of the competitive formats. That's all smile emoticon
    This isn't about slow play, activating top each turn isn't slow play. Failing to resolve the activation reasonably is. Dying to increments of 1 damage via punishing fire is not slow play.
    Matt Bevenour in real life

  13. #33
    Land Destruction Enthusiast
    Megadeus's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jul 2012
    Location

    Kennesaw, GA
    Posts

    5,572

    Re: (Article) Format Problems and Solutions by Shaheen Soorani

    Quote Originally Posted by Tammit67 View Post
    That's not what anecdotal means. Those were the actual start and end times for round 1 and round 9. Anecdotal is the defined as what the author is doing in this article


    This isn't about slow play, activating top each turn isn't slow play. Failing to resolve the activation reasonably is. Dying to increments of 1 damage via punishing fire is not slow play.
    Basically this
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

  14. #34
    Member
    Barook's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2007
    Location

    Germany, Germering, Munich
    Posts

    7,489

    Re: (Article) Format Problems and Solutions by Shaheen Soorani

    Banning SDT would be fine. It was always questionable why it was banned for time reasons in other formats (Extended to be exact, Modern was a a preemptive ban at the beginning of the format), but not in Legacy, because that makes no fucking sense. Power level is a different topic, but that doesn't remove the time-consuming aspect.

    Banning anything from Lands sounds incredibly biased and ludacrious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malakai View Post
    Banning Brainstorm decimates the blue decks. Have fun playing green dudes against Belcher twice a tournament.

    If you want to weaken blue, the best card to ban is Ponder. You weaken miracles, you weaken delver, and you weaken combo, but all the decks continue to function.
    At what point of blue meta penetration do you consider Belcher viable? Because it wasn't even a tier deck when blue was at 52% meta penetration.

  15. #35
    Hey guys, let's do it! The blue yonder awaits! Yahoo!
    Chatto's Avatar
    Join Date

    Apr 2011
    Location

    The World
    Posts

    1,011

    Re: (Article) Format Problems and Solutions by Shaheen Soorani

    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    A show of hands for actually reading articles, please. The man was not even wading into the mess of Brainstorm debates (didn't stop us from turning it into that in less than 30 minutes though). He is discussing length of rounds only.
    ... And then goes to argue to ban both Top and PF. The former I can understand, but the latter... Yes, I am biased, but come on! Suggesting banning non-U cards sound a bit... Oh, I don't know: trying really hard pointing towards someone else in the room, while farting, all the while stating 'it wasn't me' (Shaggy voice). It would only kill the format, and leaving the real problem unadressed: Legacy slowly turns into Vintage, part deux.

    Slowplay, a important point in his article, is annoying and must be dealt with, yes, but what he is suggesting isn't really helping. It would only mean the end of Legacy to those not willing to play Blue. Some would say 'good riddance', others (like me) would be sad...
    "Be it ever so crumbled, there's no place like home."

    RGCL (GQ)


    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Welcome aboard, in her dark name we do dedicate this performance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Mcdonalds View Post
    That actually sounds erotic.
    Youtube-playlist dedicated to RGCL

  16. #36
    Member

    Join Date

    Jun 2015
    Location

    NYC
    Posts

    1,329

    Re: (Article) Format Problems and Solutions by Shaheen Soorani

    Quote Originally Posted by Malakai View Post
    Banning Brainstorm decimates the blue decks. Have fun playing green dudes against Belcher twice a tournament.

    If you want to weaken blue, the best card to ban is Ponder. You weaken miracles, you weaken delver, and you weaken combo, but all the decks continue to function.
    wizards also can ban t1 gimmicky combo decks if they ever become a problem. in fact this might even be a better situation than the one we're in now, where belcher is policed by the few, proud, diligent brainstorming blue mages but still just shows up and ruins a few peoples' days.

  17. #37
    Member

    Join Date

    Oct 2012
    Location

    Italy
    Posts

    322

    Re: (Article) Format Problems and Solutions by Shaheen Soorani

    Painter plays top and it is quite important for the deck. Banning one of the only real card selection tools not in blue will never be a move i approve, despite it being time consuming

  18. #38
    Pray for Rain
    Tammit67's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2010
    Location

    Philadelphia, PA, USA
    Posts

    1,534

    Re: (Article) Format Problems and Solutions by Shaheen Soorani

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Banning SDT would be fine. It was always questionable why it was banned for time reasons in other formats (Extended to be exact, Modern was a a preemptive ban at the beginning of the format), but not in Legacy, because that makes no fucking sense. Power level is a different topic, but that doesn't remove the time-consuming aspect
    Well, Top was banned in those formats and not legacy because those formats are PTQ/Pro-tour formats. Meaning with a lot more players/events, especially when you factor in newer folks, top activations will eat up a significant amount of the clock. As long as Legacy remains in the hands of enthusiasts and not in the grinders hands, there was deemed little reason to change.

    While I don't agree that the original SDT ban was acceptable (slow play people gonna slow play w/e decision you hand them, punish them not the card), that was the reason outlined if I recall correctly. Along those lines, SDT has to go if Legacy becomes a PTQ/pro-tour format or the philosophy leading to the decision has to be revisited.
    Matt Bevenour in real life

  19. #39

    Re: (Article) Format Problems and Solutions by Shaheen Soorani

    Even though I can understand that SDT causes a lot of problems (and is generally a terribly-designed card across all formats due to it's durdliness), the rationale for banning in this article seems kinda weak. Some decks pass a certain, unacceptable "slowness" threshold and thus key cards should be banned from them to banish them from competitive play? Not a great argument, especially when the author goes after prison decks like Lands. In most cases, no the cards in your deck aren't good enough to escape from an established prison/lock and conceding early is the correct move given time constraints.

    I can understand an argument for axing SDT (even if I'm not really in favor of it, despite my distaste for the card) simply because that's a card that has and will cause problems across Magic formats, but coming up with some sort of "deck speed" rule seems silly.

  20. #40

    Re: (Article) Format Problems and Solutions by Shaheen Soorani

    Quote Originally Posted by Tammit67 View Post
    That's not what anecdotal means. Those were the actual start and end times for round 1 and round 9. Anecdotal is the defined as what the author is doing in this article
    From dictionary.com:

    anecdote

    noun, plural anecdotes or for 2, anecdota [an-ik-doh-tuh] (Show IPA)
    1.
    a short account of a particular incident or event, especially of an interesting or amusing nature.
    2.
    a short, obscure historical or biographical account.


    You are giving a short account of a particular event (Washington DC SCG Open) with the imputation that your account of the event will bolster the counter-argument that implies that, in fact, Miracles and Lands may not be the problem after all, because, well: <anecdotal evidence of one event>.

    This isn't about slow play, activating top each turn isn't slow play. Failing to resolve the activation reasonably is. Dying to increments of 1 damage via punishing fire is not slow play.
    Both of these cards promote longer rounds and slower play. Activating top each turn inevitably increases the amount of time expended in any given game of Magic, whether or not the player is intentionally "slow playing". The issue is tournament logistics as a whole, and not identifying a particular game action by the exact definition preferred the judging community.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)