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Thread: Sorting with Petals of Insight: Shortcutting and Slow Play?

  1. #81

    Re: Sorting with Petals of Insight: Shortcutting and Slow Play?

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    Can you tell us which rules? It doesn't look like a legal shortcut under rule 716 to me.
    It meets every requirement in 716.2. You have been told this multiple times, including by multiple L3+ judges. If you want to discuss it further, take it up on the judge forums. I apologize for not cutting this off earlier. This is a forum for rules questions, and the question has been extensively and repeatedly answered. Enough.

    Edit: A couple of different phrasings have passed around, so please provide a verbatim description of the shortcut that makes it legal under those rules.
    Probably because all of the phrasings you're referring to are legal. "Cast Petals 410,758 times, with the result being [these cards] on top, and the rest left in their initial order." is fine. Sorting them by some other deterministic criteria is also fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by psly4mne View Post
    Is the description in question "I cast PoI a bunch of times and then my deck is sorted"? Because that doesn't fully describe a sequence of actions at all. Even if the player describes the algorithm in full, that doesn't specify all the intermediate gamestates in a way that could be computed in a reasonable amount of time, so you are trying to give the PoI player an unfair advantage by not allowing the loop to be interrupted at any given point.
    See above if you want "the description in question". It does sufficiently specify intermediate gamestates. Your opponent using an effect to know the order of their deck and you not knowing is not unfair.

    As the opponent, I would want to cast a spell at a specific arrangement of the deck. The example I used above was "I want to counter PoI at the point in the loop when the largest number of lands are on top of his deck".
    You don't know the arrangement. Your opponent does.
    Last edited by cdr; 09-07-2015 at 05:19 PM.
    “It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.
    -David DeLaney

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