I cant really respond to this because it's based on emotions and i can tell you havent tested nor calculated its merits. There are more usecases for s.powder than finding bazaar. I dont want to turn this thread into a serum powder thread so i will leave that discussion for another time.Originally Posted by crazyeddie
Really awesome list, Zac! Just wanted to ask if you have a quick and dirty guide to sideboarding, because I don't quite get where those cards come in for you.
shadowgripper, I've tested 20+ matches with Brainstorm and varying amounts of Ponders and counter-magic. Honestly I think your right, the deck needs more prison and less traditional control.
Having Brainstorm in the opener constantly felt like it was a turn or so slower than without, as turn 1-2 you need to be dropping a lantern and mill rocks or defensive enchantments, using up mana to turn cantrips into permanents slows the lock down to much.
I'm going to experiment with Counterbalance, during my testing I ran into someone testing a Helm of Obedience combo-control deck, he was using Enlightened Tutor as a means to improve the Counterbalance lock, which felt extremely strong.
Took Zak's list to a small tourney and placed 4th with a 2-2 record. This was the list that had only 2 Mages in it.
A quick rundown...
Round 1 - Elves
Managed to establish a lock pretty quickly and discovered he wasn't holding any tutors, so I assembled RIP and Energy Field after Lantern + 3 mill rocks helped me find what I needed.
In game 2, he had Abrupt Decay for Peacekeeper, but nothing for an Ensnaring Bridge while I was down to 1. I regained control by denying him Natural Order and GSZ via Meddling Mages, and then got the Lantern lock established.
Round 2 - RUG Delver
Established a quick lock in game 1. He had no outs to RIP and Energy Field.
In game 2, Ensnaring Bridge and the Lantern lock were in my opening hand. I kept baiting his counters, and kept bouncing his Delvers to the top. This bought me enough time to never give him counters as I started Meddling and Nevermore-ing his outs.
Round 3 - BUG Depths
Locked him out in game 1 thanks to pithing needle on Hexmage and Ensnaring Bridge locked him down
In game 2, I dropped a naked Energy Field when I saw a 20/20 was incoming, and he Wastelanded me before. In game 3, same deal. I kept stalling him out but he managed to kill me with a 20/20.
Round 4 - Jund
Lost Game 1 to all those Planeswalkers doing their thing. Game 2, I managed to get a lock established because I had a Needle on his fetchland, and this kept him off relevant lands for three turns while I established my lock. He kept trying to FOW my RIP. Game 3, I died to Shardless beats given that he had counters or Abrupt Decay for all my defensive pieces.
Last edited by mistervader; 07-06-2016 at 12:15 AM.
I've been playtesting the W/u Rip Energy field list online a lot, with a few changes. I've been playing all basics + 4 flooded strand, and then relying on mox opals and lotus petals for ramp/fixing. This lets me not worry about wasteland at all, and since my only blue spells are field and field of dreams, I've hardly ever been color screwed. I really, really like my 1-of ethersworn canonist maindeck, as a way to have game against storm game 1. But it's also really nice as a way to combat 2 pieces of removal for my lockdown pieces in one turn. Also, E tutor seems like the best card in the deck by far, and I replaced 1 pithing needle for a 4th. Not having to needle wasteland is nice.
Tried Darksteel Citadel as a 4-of? It's pretty okay as a land in the deck, as it turns on your Opals sooner.
I don't see why you are worried about Wasteland when the UW Build runs a ton of Islands and Plains. I think you could even play without the Coasts or Tundras
This is what I'm playing. All basics + citadels and opals.
I play 1 citadel, but might add a few more for consistent opal ramp on turn one. Getting lantern down turn 1 with a mana open for e-tutor or a shredder seems really important in order to launch your control game asap. Also, dropping RIP on your first turn can be all the difference in the appropriate macthups. That's why I like 2-3 lotus petals.
Can anyone tell me their experience with Nevermore? I'm not having any success with it. If I see storm or eleves or some other combo deck, I'm almost always tutoring for canonist. Nevermore is nice against abrupt decay, I guess, but the jund matchup is so awful game one thay I don't see the point of maindecking it.
I like the Canonist, but prefer not having critters in my maindeck so that they side out a good chunk of their removal for Game 2. You have a working list at the moment? The Lotus Petal sounds interesting enough for me to want to try. Kept losing to Reanimator yesterday because RIP was always one turn too late.
Last edited by mistervader; 07-11-2016 at 04:02 AM.
May I see your list?
I struggled for a good while coming up with a manabase that could consistently have access to blue mana for g1, as well as g2/g3 after sideboarding.
Here's what I currently have. It's still in flux, especially the sideboard:
Mana Sources: 23
3 Mox Opal
3 Lotus Petal
2 Darksteel Citadel
4 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
2 Island
8 Plains
Permanents: 31
4 Lantern
1 Field of Dreams
3 Pyxis
3 Shredder
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Rest In Peace
4 Energy Field
1 Porphyry Nodes
3 Sensei's Divining top
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Seal of Cleansing
2 Pithing Needle
Instants/Sorceries: 6
4 Enlightened Tutor
2 Unexpectedly Absent
SB:
2 Meddling Mage
3 Monastery Mentor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Back to Basics
2 Seal of Cleansing
1 Nevermore
1 Peacekeeper
1 Cursed Totem
2 Swords to Plowshares
One thing I've been trying in the sideboard is a creature plan against certain matchups. I've even tested 4 Lupine Protoypes in the last couple days, to really flip the game plan against decks that either don't want to attack, or have massive removal/draw against my lock pieces. So, that's Storm, Jund, Bug delver. Ideally, I still try to lockout first, (albeit with a few pieces sided out), but then drop some guys for the surprise beats when the removal is all gone.
Actually been trying your version, Bruizar! Really like it, but missing the Helm finish and the Enlightened Tutors. Otherwise, yeah, the odds of me holding the right lock pieces in my opening grip are pretty good. Maybe some tweaking is in order, but I do appreciate the Powders.
Glad you like it. I'm not sure if there's a replacement for E.Tutor but I do certainly like the Helm finish. It does need to be tweaked. Once you go for Serum Powders, the post board matchups %'s really increase because you have better access to the cards you need.. You can also start using Leyline of Sanctity against Storm or Leyline of the Void in addition to Rest in Peace against graveyard strategies.
Sorry. When I say "missing the Tutors and Helm," I'm referring to the fact the list you put up on page 14 doesn't have Tutors or the Helm, not that I don't own Tutors or the Helm. That being said, I've been wanting Petals in the list to fight off Reanimator, because I've tested 10 matches against them, pre and post board, and RIP comes in too late if it comes in on turn 2.
I have included Helm, not E.Tutor yet in my testing, mainly because I sold my E.Tutors. As for reanimator, I'd go for Leylines, Tormod's Crypt or Relic of Progenitus before I'd go for Lotus Petal. Crypt and Relic buy you time on their own. Lotus Petal is only useful if you also have a Rest in Peace and finding it will cost time. I will go for sideboarded Leylines because of the Serum Powders and their strength against unfair decks with Leylines (dredge/storm/reanimator).
From your list on page 14, what do you suggest the Enlightened Tutors come in for? I'm thinking Gitaxian Probe at the moment.
Also, I'm inclined to maindeck 1 Grafdigger's Cage just to deal with elves, Dredge, and Animator asap.
Last edited by mistervader; 07-22-2016 at 02:14 AM.
Played in a roughly 30 man tourney yesterday, went 4-1 and got top seed entering top 8. We chopped the money and played for a custom deck box. Lost in a rematch to my round 5 opponent.
Here's what I brought:
4 Flooded Strand
4 Marsh Flats
1 Polluted Delta
5 Plains
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Scrubland
3 Mox Diamond
1 Darksteel Citadel
4 Lantern of Insight
1 Field of Dreams
2 Codex Shredder
3 Pyxis of Pandemonium
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Pithing Needle
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Rest in Peace
3 Energy Field
1 Spellskite
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Enlightened Tutor
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
SB:
3 Monastery Mentor
2 Terminus
1 Thoughtseize
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Council's Judgment
1 Batterskull
1 Pithing Needle
2 Seal of Cleansing
1 Baleful Strix
1 Welding Jar
I had been practicing a strictly W/u deck, but I really felt I needed a little more flexibility and a way to combat abrupt decay better, so I splashed black for some discard and a Tezz.
Round 1 vs Aluren: 0-2
-I hadn't much experience here, but I felt good stripping away a combo piece on turn with Inquisition. That slowed him down but he got small beats on under a bridge. I put down a needle, but not knowing the deck, I named Fauna Shaman blindly instead of Cavern Harpy. Game 2 he just had a nutty hand and all my prison pieces don't really interact with the combo outside of needle. Overall, seems like a really tough matchup in that they have abrupt decay in addition to a non-standard line of attack.
Round 2 vs RG Lands: 2-1
-I was feeling down on my matchup last game, then I saw my opponent open on the play with mox diamond and I felt relieved holding a bridge in hand. Then he got a turn 2 Marit Lage token, and swung turn 3 before I could cast the bridge. Doh! But games 2 and 3, I just played my natural hate and the game was nearly impossible for him.
Round 3 vs RG Lands: 2-0
-This matchup went quickly, with quick RIPs/bridges.
Round 4 vs Shardless BUG: 2-0
-I was telling someone earlier that this is one of the toughest matchups for Lantern because of all the abrupt decays and Lilianas and card advantage. However, I was quickly able to establish RIP in both games, and he had to waste his removal on it because of his heavy Goyf/DRS openers. Game one, I stripped a decay with Inquisition, which was exactly the role it was supposed to play, and it made the difference. After some top decking, I got a Tezzeret, and was able to drain him while he unluckily kept whiffing on decays with a sylvan library out. The second game went a little less smoothly, though he overextended behind a single bridge and RIP and then Terminus cleaned up. Helm got there pretty quickly after that.
Round 5 vs Death and Taxes: 2-0
-Game one, I lantern locked him pretty hard with a naked energy field in play, though the RIP came eventually. He conceded after I got 2 shredders down. Game 2, I got a spellskite and RIP/Field. Seal of Cleansing took care of some revokers eventually, though he admitted later he missed a Mom activation to protect one. I was a little wary game 2 of Cataclysm, but I spammed stuff anyway. He got out a Gideon and pumped out a a bunch of tokens, and Terminus cleared the board. His Thalias really slowed me down, but his reliance on top-decking removal made him equally as slow. Once the Terminus resolved, the game ended quickly.
Round 1 of Top 8 vs same Death and Taxes: 1-2
-After deciding to chop the money, I was as interested in leaving as I was in playing and kept a bad 7, expecting to have a similarly easy match as last time. The beats came in quicker than I expected with Brimaz, and I couldn't find a bridge or field. Game 2, I mulled to a better hand and won in a similar fashion as the previous match. Game 3, I had a good angle to win, but a very fast Sword of Fire and Ice came down equipped to a vialed-in Mirran Crusader, which meant I had to lose my spellskite. Got the bridge down next turn, but he had a flickerwisp in and and I no longer had the skite to protect it.
Overall, the deck performed well and the "free" wins against lands really helped. Beating shardless bug was the highlight of my tourney, as I felt I played the matchup well even if I did get a little lucky game one. Terminus helped a lot postboard. The Tops performed incredibly well all day long, really liking all the fetches. Enlightened tutor was great as always. Even thought the inquisitions helped occasionally, I was usually boarding them out. I think going forward, I'll go back to W/u though I really like Tezz as a 1-of. I might go to a single swamp maindeck, just for Tezz and Strix out of the board.
I'm not sure yet. Gitaxian Probe can probably be cut, although I do like the perfect information.
Very nice finish, congratulations. Would you cut Sensei's Divining Cut or do you regard it as a critical piece to the deck. Also, I assume Mox Diamond = Mox Opal in your list. Typo?
Yeah, I meant opal. I kept saying mox diamond all day long because I'm used to playing with them. I would not cut the Tops. Having a million looks wih fetches/mill rocks was very important, especially in a deck that doesn't really care about card advantage, only finding the right answer. Plus, terminus was really good.
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