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  1. #1
    bruizar
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    Legacy Lantern

    So, this will probably never be as powerful as the modern deck given that Brainstorm and Dig Through Time are everywhere, but I still wanted to see how far Lantern control can be converted to legacy. Here's my take on it. Maybe you guys want to give your take on it, and perhaps provide your own lists as many variations are possible.


    3 Volcanic Island
    2 Tropical Island
    4 Misty Rainforest
    3 Scalding Tarn
    3 Grove of the Burnwillows
    1 Island
    1 Academy Ruins

    3 Mox Opal
    4 Lantern of Insight
    4 Codex Shredder
    4 Ghoulcaller’s Bell
    4 Ensnaring Bridge
    2 Pithing Needle
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Sensei’s Divining Top
    3 Gitaxian Probe
    2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    2 Field of Dreams
    3 Counterbalance
    3 Punishing Fire
    3 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Spell Snare



    - Counterbalance is there to serve as a surrogate Chalice of the Void for one. Since you can't run Chalice of the Void in this deck, Counterbalance is the next best alternative given the density of one drops and the selection between Sensei's Divining Top, Ghoulcaller's Bell and Codex Shredder.
    - This deck should have a decent matchup against miracles because Lantern of Insight can shuffle away the revealed miracle card

    The rest is self explanatory I think.

    Known issues with my list:
    - Jace costs 4 mana, that's a lot. I can dig for lands via milling, but 4 is still a stretch. But you can't play this deck and not use Jace I think.
    - Chalice of the Void hurts
    - Engineered Explosives is a nightmare. Need more needles in the side?
    Last edited by bruizar; 08-23-2015 at 08:35 AM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    4 mana is a lot, but zur's weirding is effectively two of yours cards in one.

  3. #3

    Re: Legacy Lantern

    1) Mill boost DDT, play it and try to get a plan to beat it
    2) Omnitell looks like a disaster, you have some rebs but DDT + BS + a average turn 4 kill is pretty bad, maybe discard work better than countermagic here?
    3) SDT is insane against you, you need a good plan against it (imho 2 needles are not enough)
    4) Get some artifact hate in your SB, given that null rod is played and is autoloss
    5) Why no Transmute artifact, Ancient tomb, tezzeret AoB (way better than JTMS imho), and i guess that thopters may work too and enlightned tutor should be tested
    6) Are you able to deal with BG decks? Decay seems problematic in delver shells
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  4. #4
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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    I think Liliana would be really strong. I've debated lantern in a pox shell because px loses to a lot of topdecks. Lantern fixes that. I don't think you should go for pox but Liliana seems strong. I also like thoughtseize here, it seems like the best cheap disruption without force available. Do you feel that you can afford to play punishing fire? Its mana intensive and you play few lands. I personally would explore liliana over that. Pyroclasm seems strong in here too.

    Edit: obviously only if you feel comfortable splashing black. By the way, what are the trops for? Sideboard (yet to be determined?)
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  5. #5
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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    I think predict would have a home here, as would thoughtscour to mill away unwanted cards for you or the opponent.
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

  6. #6
    bruizar
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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    @MR Safety:
    I initially had black in the list but I really wanted Punishing Fire and Field of Dreams. Perhaps Blue/Black/Green is still a better route for Abrupt Decay, Liliana of the Veil and Thoughtseize though.

    The green splash is still sort of undecided but its for the sideboard. At least Ancient Grudge should be in the side to combat chalice of the void among other things.



    Quote Originally Posted by Noctalor View Post
    1) Mill boost DDT, play it and try to get a plan to beat it
    Will try

    2) Omnitell looks like a disaster, you have some rebs but DDT + BS + a average turn 4 kill is pretty bad, maybe discard work better than countermagic here?
    Proactive discard is better indeed. That would mean I'd have to give up punishing fire and probably trade them for abrupt decays. My plan was to sideboard at least 3 extra rebs for the omnitell match up. I'm willing to sideboard more even as the meta is very blue.

    3) SDT is insane against you, you need a good plan against it (imho 2 needles are not enough)
    3 needles?

    4) Get some artifact hate in your SB, given that null rod is played and is autoloss
    Ancient Grudge should be in the side. Perhaps nature's claim or krosan grip to deal with random sylvan libraries / counterbalance too

    5) Why no Transmute artifact, Ancient tomb, tezzeret AoB (way better than JTMS imho), and i guess that thopters may work too and enlightned tutor should be tested
    The converted manacost of the artifacts is really low, and there is enough redundancy in the deck I think. I considered Transmute and Thopter Foundry but decided I'd rather use the space for Counterbalance. Ancient Tomb and City of Traitors I also considered, but if I want to land Counterbalance, it's not that great and Ancient Tomb is a liability against delver decks that use bolts. It may still be correct though, I was really tempted to run it. Not sure about Tezz vs Jace. Some modern lists play Tezz but Jace is banned there. Jace does exactly what the deck wants to do though. Needs to be tested.

    [/QUOTE]6) Are you able to deal with BG decks? Decay seems problematic in delver shells[/QUOTE]
    I think sideboard Spellskite would be desirable for those match ups. Not sure yet.

    --

    I think a BUG list and a RUG list look most viable to me. I'm not sure what an UW list could be besides Swords to Plowshares and Rest in Piece, but I'm open for suggestions.

  7. #7

    Re: Legacy Lantern

    I think it's a bit of a misnomer, and it should really be called Ensnaring Bridge control. The goal is to blank most of the opponent's deck with some bomb permanent, and then clip the rest with the lantern + millstone approach. I'd wonder about a package like:


    Peacekeeper
    Ensnaring Bridge

    Trinisphere
    Ethersworn Cannonist

    Enlightened Tutor
    Lantern of Insight


    A really silly approach would be some kind of Psychic Surgery + Soldier of Fortune game plan.

  8. #8
    bruizar
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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    Text
    I've also been thinking about the white blue options and I think maindeck Meddling Mage is really strong as it gives you a way to stop Brainstorm game one, as well as a threat revealed by Lantern, or Show and Tell. Sideboard you get access to Rest in Peace and if needed you can side in Swords to Plowshares.

  9. #9
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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    I like where you're going with Pyxis of Pandemonium, and the Psychic Surgery mention is cool too. Exiling is definitely better in Legacy than just mill. If there's a decent cheap Ingest card in BFZ, it might fit here.

    I've always liked the cards Solfatara/Turf Wound/Moonhold and wished there was some way that this red tempo could be playable. The Encroach/Sinkhole idea plays in that space and my inner Johnny loves it.

  10. #10

    Re: Legacy Lantern

    You could also go Mono-black for a heavy 8-Rack theme, with Surgicals, Extirpates, Murderous Cuts and others.

  11. #11

    Re: Legacy Lantern

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    I've also been thinking about the white blue options and I think maindeck Meddling Mage is really strong as it gives you a way to stop Brainstorm game one, as well as a threat revealed by Lantern, or Show and Tell. Sideboard you get access to Rest in Peace and if needed you can side in Swords to Plowshares.
    The 'information leverage' is certainly intriguing. There are some decent 'name a card' cards like Meddling Mage,Cabal Therapy,Runed Halo,Predict,Phyrexian Revoker,and Pithing Needle.

  12. #12
    bruizar
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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    A few more cards I want to mention (Almost certainly subpar but this is exploration phase).

    Ancient Stirrings - used in the modern list
    Ghirapur Aether Grid - used in the modern list
    Slag Fiend - can grow very big, especially but I like this more in a baubles type list
    Goblin Welder - Good sideboard card against Krosan Grips and such
    Grim Lavamancer or Cursed Scroll - Mops up utility creatures


    I like the idea of an UBW list combining discard and meddling mage. I wish we had fodder for Cabal Therapy. Running Mishra's Factory / Inkmoth Nexus might be a little too much trouble to activate it.
    Last edited by bruizar; 08-25-2015 at 08:30 AM.

  13. #13
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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    It looks to me like Sensei's Divining Top would be hard for this deck to deal with.

    The rest is self explanatory I think.
    This is not the case. I am intrigued by this pile, but I have no experience with Modern. Can you explain it?
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  14. #14

    Re: Legacy Lantern

    Noway green for stirring is worth. Just play ponder, its better with CB. Thoughtseize is great to sculpt your denial plan with. Also let you play strix go buy time.

  15. #15

    Re: Legacy Lantern

    I really believe it's time to take another look at this deck simply because the Cantrip Cartel, Ponder, Preordain, and BS, all have fits dealing with WAR Narset. Quite simply, it seems like a great idea to run the Lantern or even Whir shell, and have at least a pair of Narsets around to ensure your opponent can only draw one card at a time, all the time.

    That being said, the RIP + Force Field combo still works wonders in this type of deck, so I'm all for using that to stop all damage shenanigans. It also gives you an easy Helm of Obedience as your kill, if you can't wait to mill your opponent out.

  16. #16
    bruizar
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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    A massive printing for lantern in core2020

  17. #17
    bruizar
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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    Short update. I'm working on an Esper direction with Scheming Symmetry and Teferi, Time Raveler. Teferi can turn Scheming Symmetry into an instant, which is of massive importance because you can get a Codex Shredder and mill your opponent's target without it getting countered because of Teferi's static ability. I want to run a singleton Wishclaw Talisman to bounce it with Teferi, but I'm not sure if that card is efficient enough.

    4x Teferi, Time Raveler
    4x Scheming Symmetry
    1x Wishclaw Talisman

    Terminus becomes much better with Scheming Symmetry, and Mystic Sanctuary is a nice land to get an extra miracle out of Terminus. With Teferi, we don't need green for Abrupt Decay anymore, and we also don't need Ancient Stirrings. That means we can still run the Energy Field + RIP combo while also getting access to great discard spells

  18. #18

    Re: Legacy Lantern

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    Short update. I'm working on an Esper direction with Scheming Symmetry and Teferi, Time Raveler. Teferi can turn Scheming Symmetry into an instant, which is of massive importance because you can get a Codex Shredder and mill your opponent's target without it getting countered because of Teferi's static ability. I want to run a singleton Wishclaw Talisman to bounce it with Teferi, but I'm not sure if that card is efficient enough.

    4x Teferi, Time Raveler
    4x Scheming Symmetry
    1x Wishclaw Talisman

    Terminus becomes much better with Scheming Symmetry, and Mystic Sanctuary is a nice land to get an extra miracle out of Terminus. With Teferi, we don't need green for Abrupt Decay anymore, and we also don't need Ancient Stirrings. That means we can still run the Energy Field + RIP combo while also getting access to great discard spells
    interesting additions
    i have had incredible success with my latest mono blue (slight splash) list.

    //Artifact (30)
    4 Codex Shredder
    1 Cursed Scroll
    1 Defense Grid
    1 Engineered Explosives
    3 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Executioner's Capsule
    1 Ghoulcaller's Bell
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    4 Lantern of Insight
    2 Lotus Petal
    1 Meekstone
    4 Mox Opal
    3 Pithing Needle
    2 Pyxis of Pandemonium
    1 Welding Jar

    //Enchantment (4)
    2 Artificer's Intuition
    2 Field of Dreams

    //Instant (3)
    3 Whir of Invention

    //Planeswalker (3)
    3 Narset, Parter of Veils

    //Sorcery (2)
    2 Transmute Artifact

    //Land (18)
    1 Academy Ruins
    2 Ancient Tomb
    4 Glimmervoid
    1 Inventors' Fair
    4 Island
    4 Seat of the Synod
    2 Spire of Industry

    SB: 1 Damping Sphere
    SB: 1 Defense Grid
    SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
    SB: 1 Executioner's Capsule
    SB: 2 Flusterstorm
    SB: 2 Metamorphose
    SB: 2 Oko, Thief of Crowns
    SB: 1 Pithing Needle
    SB: 1 Sun Droplet
    SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
    SB: 1 Witchbane Orb

  19. #19
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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    Short update. I'm working on an Esper direction with Scheming Symmetry and Teferi, Time Raveler. Teferi can turn Scheming Symmetry into an instant, which is of massive importance because you can get a Codex Shredder and mill your opponent's target without it getting countered because of Teferi's static ability. I want to run a singleton Wishclaw Talisman to bounce it with Teferi, but I'm not sure if that card is efficient enough.

    4x Teferi, Time Raveler
    4x Scheming Symmetry
    1x Wishclaw Talisman

    Terminus becomes much better with Scheming Symmetry, and Mystic Sanctuary is a nice land to get an extra miracle out of Terminus. With Teferi, we don't need green for Abrupt Decay anymore, and we also don't need Ancient Stirrings. That means we can still run the Energy Field + RIP combo while also getting access to great discard spells
    What does your list look like?

    Terminus sounds pretty great in that setup.

    Do you play 4xLeyline of the Void in the SB so opponents can't benefit from your mill?

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