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Thread: Legacy Lantern

  1. #21
    bruizar
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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    I'm not too worried about sensei's divining top. Main deck Pithing Needle answers it. SDT is played in miracles. Entreat the Angels is useless against Lantern of Insight. That means you have to survive Jace and Monastery Mentor. Pithing Needle on Jace and Ensnaring Bridge will win that match up, even if Entreat does happen. Counterbalance is the only real threat i care about.

    How to survive against delver of secrets is a different story though... Ideally you want Ghirapur Aether Grid in play against delver but that will never resolve. The Sheltered Valley is there to extend the clock of aggressive decks, but it's not nearly enough. Delver is hyper efficient. I'd sideboard in Caltrops against Young Pyromancer and Unflipped Delver. That or illness in the ranks maybe. Perhaps Desert too because it can't be countered, and hope that Sun Droplets will be good enough to live long enough for Ensnaring Bridge and some Pyxis action.

    This is why i wanted to run punishing fire and counterbalance, with perhaps sb forked bolt/electrickery, but the esper version looks stronger against other games. Counterbalance in this deck with so many one drops and a way to control your top card via millrocks is essentially a one sided chalice for one.
    Last edited by bruizar; 08-26-2015 at 01:02 PM.

  2. #22
    bruizar
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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    I think I solved the decks biggest problem against aggressive delver and burn decks. Energy field isn't triggered by pixis of Pandemonium and codex shredder doesnt have to mill yourself so you can sustain the lock. Codex Shredder can return Energy Field if it dies in the late game.

    3 mox opal
    4 gitaxian probe
    2 field of dreams
    4 lantern of insight
    4 pyxis of pandemonium
    4 codex shredder
    4 pithing needle
    3 counterbalance
    4 ensnaring bridge
    4 energy field
    1 surgical extraction
    3 back to basics
    2 flex (vedalken shackles?)
    18 islands


    I'm contemplating cutting the Mox Opals if I'm not running a splash color. I think I'd rather have Sensei's Divining Tops there or counters.
    Last edited by bruizar; 08-27-2015 at 04:12 AM.

  3. #23
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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    I think I solved the decks biggest problem against aggressive delver and burn decks. Energy field isn't triggered by pixis of Pandemonium and codex shredder doesnt have to mill yourself so you can sustain the lock. Codex Shredder can return Energy Field if it dies in the late game.

    I'm contemplating cutting the Mox Opals if I'm not running a splash color. I think I'd rather have Sensei's Divining Tops there or counters.
    Interesting. You could throw in one Rest in Peace for the lock with Energy Field. I wonder if Leyline of Sanctity would be worth trying? Bridge is great in modern as most decks use creatures but a bit weak against Storm/Omni when they kill with spells.
    Also might Copy Artifact be better than Field of Dreams?
    My Legacy Decks of choice: Pox, Miracles, D&T or Lands.
    Online Trading Reference Checker

  4. #24

    Re: Legacy Lantern

    Quote Originally Posted by lyracian View Post
    Interesting. You could throw in one Rest in Peace for the lock with Energy Field. I wonder if Leyline of Sanctity would be worth trying? Bridge is great in modern as most decks use creatures but a bit weak against Storm/Omni when they kill with spells.
    Also might Copy Artifact be better than Field of Dreams?
    Going UW with Artificer's Intuition and Wheel of Sun and Moon over RIP could be pretty damned viable. I'd also, somewhat surprisingly, consider plays Orbs of Warding as a possible alternative to Leyline, given that it reduces the clocks of most decks considerably.

    Hrm...food for thought...

  5. #25

    Re: Legacy Lantern

    Energy field has me wondering about the possibilities of Solitary Confinement, but I don't think there are compelling cards to combine with it in a deck like this.

  6. #26
    bruizar
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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    Quote Originally Posted by lyracian View Post
    Interesting. You could throw in one Rest in Peace for the lock with Energy Field. I wonder if Leyline of Sanctity would be worth trying? Bridge is great in modern as most decks use creatures but a bit weak against Storm/Omni when they kill with spells.
    Also might Copy Artifact be better than Field of Dreams?
    How would you use Copy Artifact?

    Field of Dreams is there to increase redundancy. Ali Aintrazi and many of the minds working on the modern lantern list are adding an extra lens of clarity to get more control over the top of library. Field of Dreams is so much better than lens of clarity.

    I have thought about RiP especially since you are then in meddling mage colors. Right now there are still alot of paths we can walk but I'm getting closer to a core list that i like. I think energy field definitely belongs in the core list unless you are going for a wildly different variation. Energy field stabilizes against the super aggresive decks including lightning bolts whereas ensnaring bridge helps against emrakul's annihalator trigger although im pretty sure thats not enough to win against omnitell (1: u need to resolve bridge or show it, 2 they can cunning wish for an alternate kill).

    I expect jund type lists to be difficult due to abrupt decay, miracles is dangerous because of SDT and counterbalance @ 1, and omnitell looks unwinnable :-). Most other fair decks should be fine.

  7. #27

    Re: Legacy Lantern

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkenslight View Post
    Going UW with Artificer's Intuition and Wheel of Sun and Moon over RIP could be pretty damned viable. I'd also, somewhat surprisingly, consider plays Orbs of Warding as a possible alternative to Leyline, given that it reduces the clocks of most decks considerably.

    Hrm...food for thought...
    Helm of Obedience could come out of the side if you are relying on RiP...it is also a semi top deck filter itself, capable of grabbing something juicy that is revealed off the top.

    Also, does Helm + Wheel of Sun and Moon lead to a draw for the game, if both players cannot interrupt it? I can't remember the ruling on causing infinite loops.

  8. #28

    Re: Legacy Lantern

    Quote Originally Posted by square_two View Post
    Also, does Helm + Wheel of Sun and Moon lead to a draw for the game, if both players cannot interrupt it? I can't remember the ruling on causing infinite loops.
    Yes, it ties the game.

  9. #29
    bruizar
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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    Short update: these are the core cards I am not willing to compromise on thus far.


    That's 24 cards. Plenty of design space left.

    The following cards are omitted from the preliminary core list even though they exist in the modern list. They may well be re-added, I'm just not 100% sure about them yet:
    Ensnaring Bridge
    Surgical Extraction
    Mox Opal

  10. #30

    Re: Legacy Lantern

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    Short update: these are the core cards I am not willing to compromise on thus far.

    [/CARDS]
    That's 24 cards. Plenty of design space left.

    The following cards are omitted from the preliminary core list even though they exist in the modern list. They may well be re-added, I'm just not 100% sure about them yet:
    Ensnaring Bridge
    Surgical Extraction
    Mox Opal
    ...Would you consider playing Artificer's Intuition over Field of Dreams?

  11. #31
    bruizar
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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkenslight View Post
    ...Would you consider playing Artificer's Intuition over Field of Dreams?
    I wouldn't run it over fiels of dreams because its a 3 mana 2 card investment but i would consider it in addition to field of dreams. If I would run AI, i would add elixir of immortality in the sideboard and run darkdepths, thespian stage, expedition map and academy ruins because it gives you a fast way to seal the game as well as inevitability.

    Even without AI this line of play opens with a map:
    Expedition map into ruins
    Activate ruins, replay map into thespian stage
    Activate ruins, replay map into dark depths
    Use codex shredder the combo is disrupted

  12. #32
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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    Despite my illinformed diatribe about this deck in legacy, I actually really like the developments here.

    Could Transmute Artifact be a good consideration to snag other pieces of control?

    I think going Mono U is correct as well, but given how good RiP/Energy Field is a small
    White splash could be appealing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    To be fair, you're supposed to build a sizable pyre underneath it and light it with an arrow from afar.

  13. #33
    bruizar
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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    Some goldfishing wish physical cards done. Thus far I like Transmute Artifact over A.I.. It's faster and the redundancy is so high that most of the time I don't need any recurring tutoring. Getting multiple Pithing Needles is great, but I feel like T.A. is just a more direct, cheaper way to get silver bullets. I'm currently on the expedition map plan and I notice that Expedition Map is my main target after establishing the lock.

  14. #34
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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    Trasmuting our Bridge to get something post Marit Lage and attacking for the win seems like a good idea. Plus we can recur all of our artifacts with it via Academy Ruins.

    That seems nice. But the issue becomes Energy Field--which the deck should play as part of it's core.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    To be fair, you're supposed to build a sizable pyre underneath it and light it with an arrow from afar.

  15. #35
    bruizar
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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    I'm currently testing a 4/2 Energy Field Ensnaring Bridge split. Again, mostly for redundancy but with the added benefit of having a Transmutable defense against creatures too. However, transmuting ensnaring bridge is not as good as you think because it costs 4 mana in this deck. I'm cutting Mox Opals for sure because you really don't need more than 2 lands in this deck to work. A single island is enough to play but you want to be able to play out your hand quickly so a second source is nice. The only reason why you'd want the third source is for Ensnaring Bridge and Academy Ruins. Why Energy Field works particularly well is because this deck goes hellbent so fast. If you have zero cards in hand, you don't have to worry about thoughtseize, cabal therapy or Inquisition of Kozilek removing your energy field.

    Transmute Artifact removing Energy Field shouldn't matter as you can get Ensnaring Bridge instead. I' still trying to figure out what makes Ensnaring Bridge better. Thus far my reasons are:

    1) Blocks Emrakul trigger
    2) Planeswalkers (Should the deck use them) cannot be attacked. They can be attacked with Energy Field in play so Energy Field will be removed by killing the walker.
    3) It's Transmutable
    4) I have 7th edition foils :p
    5) More difficult to remove

    List of cards I still want to try:
    Vendillion Clique (Blue 'discard' and clock)
    True Name Nemesis (clock that won't end up in the graveyard)
    Vedalken Shackles (Perhaps redundant)
    Counterbalance/SDT (Thus far only theory craft)
    Back to Basics (Very good against the cloudpost manabase, and a good mono U prison card)
    Last edited by bruizar; 08-29-2015 at 07:13 AM.

  16. #36
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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    We should really look into white.

    Gives us access to 8 tutors between Transmute and Enlightened Tutor--which can get us any piece of control. Rest in Peace which can lock with Energy Field. It also gives us a tutor able kill by possibly playing a Helm.

    Adding white makes us not play Back to Basics, and opens us up to Wasteland.

    Perhaps we can play something like Ghost Quarter/Wasteland+Crucible?

    I think maybe playing artifact lands helps with Mox Opal, which we should consider.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    To be fair, you're supposed to build a sizable pyre underneath it and light it with an arrow from afar.

  17. #37

    Re: Legacy Lantern

    Quote Originally Posted by Redkid43 View Post
    We should really look into white.

    Gives us access to 8 tutors between Transmute and Enlightened Tutor--which can get us any piece of control. Rest in Peace which can lock with Energy Field. It also gives us a tutor able kill by possibly playing a Helm.

    Adding white makes us not play Back to Basics, and opens us up to Wasteland.

    Perhaps we can play something like Ghost Quarter/Wasteland+Crucible?

    I think maybe playing artifact lands helps with Mox Opal, which we should consider.
    An all-basic UW list would be amazing, especially with the rumored BfZ duals.

  18. #38
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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkenslight View Post
    An all-basic UW list would be amazing, especially with the rumored BfZ duals.
    Well considering the rumors were right...
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    To be fair, you're supposed to build a sizable pyre underneath it and light it with an arrow from afar.

  19. #39
    bruizar
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    Re: Legacy Lantern

    Just a draft, feel free to improve/critique.

    4 gitaxian probe
    2 field of dreams
    4 lantern of insight
    4 pyxis of pandemonium
    4 codex shredder
    4 pithing needle
    4 energy field
    2 Ensnaring Bridge
    2 Vendillion Clique
    2 Surgical Extraction

    3 Rest in Peace
    2 Enlightened Tutor
    1 Helm of Obedience
    2 Detention Sphere (Oblivion Ring doesn’t die to Pyroblast, so it may be better; also easier on the manabase. Council shouldn't be used with Energy Field around)
    2 Flexslot - Swords to Plowshares..?

    18 Basics

    Sideboard:
    4 Meddling Mage
    X True-Name Nemesis
    X Containment Priest
    X Ethersworn Canonist
    X Flusterstorm

  20. #40

    Re: Legacy Lantern

    Hi, I'm that one guy who took Lantern to 12-2-1 at GP Charlotte. I've been recently looking into making this legacy viable since there are less-and-less Modern tournaments I'm getting to enter. As a big fan of prison style decks, I thought I'd give this a shot. I did a LOT of researching on card choices but have not done any play testing with it as of yet (Don't physically own Field of Dreams heh). I'll discuss my thoughts and why I believe Lantern works as a deck.

    Most importantly, why does this deck work in general? I built and fine-tuned the original Modern lantern list with three main goals to create a deck concept I felt was impossible hard to beat as long as I made sure each goal could be met at the highest consistency

    Goal 1) Prevent the opponent from ever drawing effective/threatening cards.
    Goal 2) Prevent their creatures from hurting you.
    Goal 3) Take away their best card/answer from the opening hand with discard spells.

    The deck would not work if Goal #1 couldn't be applied as blind draws would eventually and statistically lead to your demise; the opponent will draw an answer to the board state. Secondly, Goal #2 is very important as most decks in modern (and a good number in Legacy too) try to kill you with creatures. If you delete all creatures from your opponent's deck then how likely are they to win the game? Finally, there is a good chance your opponent mulligans into sideboard or effective cards g2/g3, keeping them in their hand for the right moment and there's nothing you can do about it. Yes you can run countermagic, but that loses to opposing countermagic and clogs up your hand. Instead, we utilize Goal #3 to ensure they don't have answers to what we are doing.

    Here is my current list, sideboard subject to change.

    4 Lantern of Insight
    4 Codex Shredder
    4 Ghoulcaller's Bell
    4 Ensnaring Bridge
    4 Mox Opal
    3 Pithing Needle
    2 Lotus Petal
    1 Nihil Spellbomb

    3 Field of Dreams
    4 Thoughtseize
    3 Inquisition of Kozilek
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Abrupt Decay
    1 Infernal Tutor
    1 Surgical Extraction

    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Seat of the Synod
    3 Vault of Whispers
    1 Underground Sea
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Island
    1 Swamp
    2 Academy Ruins

    Sideboard:
    2 Duress
    2 Sphinx's Tutelage
    2 Darkblast
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Trinisphere
    1 Nihil Spellbomb
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Arcane Laboratory
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 Flusterstorm

    The biggest update is we get to run Lanterns 5-7. Remember, this is the most powerful thing the deck can do. We not only receive perfect information on both players' draws but we can determine what the opponent draws AS WELL AS our self. Fixing our own draws in one of the biggest strong points that makes the deck so consistent. With extra lanterns and swapping Ancient Stirrings for Brainstorm, I don't have a need for green in the deck anymore. Adjusting mana base accordingly, we add in artifact lands to allow for Mox Opal to do extra work and Lotus Petals for quicker starts and help avoid Daze. One thing I fear porting to Legacy is how hard it will be to stick a lantern effect or bridge, but having quicker mana and discard spells should allow us to push through. Once lantern hits we are set to take over the game. I can't imagine playing without Academy Ruins. This card "prevents" hard countermagic effects and gives us inevitability.

    Doing a quick skim through of the current thread, I don't believe playing without discard spells is a wise decision. Over the course of many games, you will likely lose more g2/g3 than expect due to opponent deciding how to mulligan and finding answers to your threats. I also do not like Energy Field, as milling yourself with shredder is such a strong advantage. Energy Field wants the deck to play less spells as well such as discard or Abrupt Decay. I don't feel comfortable taking decay out as it's a catch-all solution to unknowns game 1 and especially g2/g3 when sideboard cards are brought in.

    Remember the three goals. We want to build a deck that consistently meets these goals to statistically give us higher win-percentages. Conditional cards that meet these goals are less good, as it's very hard to play magic with this deck. You want to prevent both players from playing magic. That is the lock.

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