It's probably because I've never played a deck with this card in it, but I cannot figure how I missed this. Its bonkers in decks attempting to power out 1-3 mana artifacts (ie MUD) and Codex Shredder and Ensnaring Bridge meet those criteria also. Per Zac's suggestion, I will get on gatherer and begin the hunt for obscure utility lands.Originally Posted by shadowgripper
In that case other sol lands like Crystal Vein are also worth consideration.
Would you mind giving me a break down of your actions turn by turn before the combo lock is established - I am finding that getting the lock down takes a while since you need at least 2 mill rocks and hopefully while also playing discard/decay. Additionally, I've only been able to consistently get Bridge by turn 4/5 with stirrings and I am not sure that is fast enough. I am thinking that to be competitive, you need bridge in play by turn 2/3 (hence why I am thinking about tombs and tutor). Thanks. Off course I defer to you in all this as you have much much more experience in this deck.
In modern its almost always correct to slam the Lantern turn 1, but Legacy is a different animal and I haven't decided if the turn 1 hand disruption is probably the better move or not. Against decks like Storm it sure is, and sometimes Delver decks keep sketchy hands based on the power of Brainstorm. That said, the priority I find (again from playing it in modern a lot) is Lantern > Mill Rocks > Discard > Stirrings for turn 1 and 2. After that its sort of, whatever you have mana for until your hand is empty. The only cards I "hold back" are Stirrings and Needle unless there's an obvious use like stopping their Grim Lavamancer or finding your 3rd Land/1st Bridge/Lantern etc. That said, if we get to turn 4 and are still holding a Stirrings, its either obvious what you want to find, or you just play it and take whatever helps tighten the noose the most, usually more mill rocks.
Fabricate/Intuition are on-color with Field of Dreams.
Powered by Sol-Lands they find all the pieces including bridge.
Probably too expensive though.
Liliana of the Veil does exactly nothing against this deck. I wonder why you would care about Liliana of the Veil.
Guys, you're playing way way way too greedy with your mana bases. You can't get away playing a three to four colored deck with lands that produce colorless mana. How are you going to include Sheltered Valley, Academy Ruins and City of Traitors with that many colors in a deck that has 17/18 lands at max. Mox Opal isn't the answer.
Also, I would much rather have Karakas than City of traitors or Sheltered Valley. I've played a lot of Sheltered Valley in prison decks, and the purpose of the card is to buy 1 or 2 turns against burn decks and Delver. While I understand that this is important, and I know from experience the card is good, Clique locking with Karakas is essentially a hard lock once you get field of dreams or lantern down. If you really want to go there you can also Vensor lock but I think that's a bit too ambitious. It also provides an answer to Kataki, War's Wage and other random legends reanimate likes to play. IMO a much better use of the utility land slot.
If you guys want tutor cards I would take Transmute Artifact over Enlightened Tutor UNLESS I would somehow be playing Counterbalance.
Greedy with manabase? But have you seen my Charlotte and OKC decklist? Do you think that is inconsistent?
I cannot see how Karakas + Clique is any good. Clique costs three mana and is the only thing in our deck that gets hit by creature removal. What exactly are we locking with Clique? A card they drew? Are they really drawing cards when we have 8 mill rocks in our deck? I fail to understand the application and likelihood of effectiveness from those two, specific cards.
I guess my issue, which is separate from people who have more experience in this deck, is that: No, I am not finding 8 mill rocks enough (which is why I tried adding tutor).
@Cire, Usually "Lantern + Mill rock" is enough. Thats enough to prevent them from getting good stuff *most* of the time. And when you dont have to hit their stuff, you mill yourself to find more rocks. The second mill rock changes your chance of survival; it exponentially increases it. The second rock is when I feel very comfortable and relaxed. The third rock is the final piece; you don't need it right away. Once you have it, that's when you gain complete control, virtually shutting down the opponent completely. During this time you dig for your fourth rock, which ends the game. Once you have four you can mill them EoT and untap with safety.
This isn't a format that runs tectonic edge or Fulminator Mage. We're living in a world with main deck Wasteland, Force of Will, Stifle, Spell Pierce and Daze, all ready to punish greedy mana bases. I think you aren't taking this into consideration here. I'll be the first guy to say that lantern is viable in legacy, but inconsistent, greedy mana bases get punished hard here. And yes, I know you only need a couple of activations from your multicolor sources, but opening with Academy Ruins + City of Traitors is just awkward when you're banking on a Thoughtseize/Duress/Inquisition of Kozilek.
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Vendilion Clique is a discard spell that can be played during the draw step and can be returned every turn. Take a moment to realize what this means in a deck with lanterns. You can (a) deplete business spells from hand and (b) remove the drawn card before your opponent has the ability to play it, turning it essentially in a mill. You don't actually care if they kill it, and you can Karakas in response if you have the land in play. In the case that they don't kill it with a spell, it can chump block, for instance, a delver to reduce the clock against you. I'm not making this up. Karakas + Clique has proven to be viable in legacy time and again. I'm not denying there is an opportunity cost for a 3 mana discard spell; I'm primarily making a case for prioritizing Karakas over Sheltered Valley/City of Traitors.
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Having said that, I'll be trying a more heavy black build with Unmasks and a slew of other discard spells.
I want to play this deck. What is the most recent list that you folks are testing?
I just don't think Lantern + Mill Rock is enough against Brainstorm and Top. I agree that 3 usually ends the game, but 1 is insufficient with such selection available, in my current view.
You ever played against LotV with the Modern version? -6: lose all your non-bridge permanents or your ensnaring bridge so I can crush you with these tarmogoyfs is a very real occurence. You find a Decay or Needle in a hurry or you just die to her. She never -2's against you so her ultimate occurs 3 turns after she's cast.
Against Top you have to find multiple rocks or a Needle. Brainstorm and company fight your lock early game, but later on you just don't let them draw it. The key to this deck is getting to a point where they don't have any of those cards in hand and you never let them draw it. That said, maybe a 9-10 mill rock will prove necessary in the Legacy port, but I'm skeptical.
Brainfarted here. My bad. :-)
Haha, NP. I haven't experienced it, but I assume turn 2 Lili off of a DRS is even more terrifying in Legacy. That kind of pressure may really push the correct play towards turn 1 hand disruption above all else. Worth noting for people with available time to test the deck.
Side question: WTF is up with price of Field of Dreams? I bought one for $5, 2 weeks ago, now their $50+ ? This deck hasn't proven it can do anything yet? Sure hope its just speculators and it gets reasonable again.
Is there a way to see not just historic TCGPlayer/ StarCity prices, but inventory levels? I'm pretty sure somebody bought the entire TCGPlayer inventory at once in the past week or so, probably somebody reading this thread. Got them all for less than $10 a piece, hoping for a strong tournament performance for a good return on investment.
It's amazing how all it takes to corner the market on an old Magic card is a thousand bucks and an hour of time.
...I was thinking; in a tutor-based list, how potent would the interaction between Ghost Quarter and Crucible of Worlds be? Eventually running the opponent out of lands seems like a viable alternate strategy.
You know, a deck like this could be Sensei's Divining Top's worst enemy: if all their doing is tying up their mana resources to filter their own draws, it would be a bad idea for them to tap and spin Top to the top of their library with a mill effect on the table.
I think this deck is very good against Miracles. It attacks them in a way they are pretty helpless to fight against both pre and post board. In Legacy, because Burn isn't near as popular as it is in Modern, the worst matchups will likely be super aggressive decks backed up by efficient disruption. That basically means BUG Delver, Jund, and Storm.
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