I have run into it a few times. It is indeed a bad matchup. Baleful strix and mentor are really good against them, but the rest of our deck is not so great. Jace is pretty bad because of Reality Smasher and their spawn tokens. Deluge is bad because X usually has to be 5 or more. Countermagic is usually bad because of their 4 cavern. UWB has the least effective answers against chalice. Engineered explosives is probably the best card to fight chalice decks, but is not a card I really like much in this deck.Originally Posted by Berserking Now
I beat them a couple times, and it was always when I answered their chalice and then just had an early mentor + lots of removal. Germag angler and removal that doesn't cost 1 might help improve the matchup, but we don't have access to many very powerful hate cards without seriously changing the deck.
I played some preboard games against Barook's GW Eldrazi Ramp 2.0 to develop a sideboard plan against that variant. My last 3 slots were Baleful Strix, Gurmag Angler, and Council's Judgment. The counterspells were atrocious against them. Force of Will was needed to be aggressive against them and to not lose to chalice. Jace was surprisingly useful since due Jace's interaction with Cabal Therapy and stalling for time. The games I won against them involved mentor taking over and having better hands and draws. The games I lost involved chalice resolving, Thought-Knot Seer and Reality Smasher getting there, or variance favoring them. Out of curiosity, how did you board against the deck in general?
I actually just ran into Eldrazi again on cockatrice, I lost 2-1. The game I won involved turn 2 strix, turn 3 mentor. I lost 1 game to chalice + trinosphere and 1 game to fast Reality smasher beats.
-2 counterspell
-4 ponder
+1 disenchant
+1 Council's judgment
+3 Meddling mages
+1 Rod
For boarding, we have a lot of bad cards maindeck, and not many good cards in the SB. So understand, I am not bring in meddling mage or rod because they are particularly good. They are just better than the MD cards. Probe, therapy and FoW are also fine to trim, but ponder is probably the worst of the "gets hozed by taxing effects" spells that we play.
I haven't ran into this Eldrazi deck yet. I can say I'm getting used to piloting this deck without Deathrite Shaman though. Went 2-1 earlier this week. There are 2 Elves players in my local so I'm pretty comfortable now in that match up. Name Glimpse of Nature on your Therapy and FoW it or Natural Order and we should win every time. Finally beat Grixis Pyro, it helped I didn't punt during the match. I kind of want to talk about side boarding and what I'm doing versus what you all are doing. So for my 2 more popular match ups this is what Ive been doing;
The 3 "flex spots" I'm trying ATM are Unearth, Tasigur and Toxic Deluge
Elves: -3 Baleful Strix, -1 Tasigur, -1 Unearth
+2 Containment Priest, +2 Zealous Persecution +1 Vendilion Clique
Grixis Pyromancer: -4 Force of Will
+1 Flusterstorm, +2 Zealous Persecution, +1 Misdirection
I played against Affinity for the first time with this deck yesterday and realized it is a tough hill to climb. Hence, the reason for the Toxic Deluge main instead of the Murderous Cut main (sometimes you want to cast that Cut early and you only have 2 cards in your graveyard). My current sideboard is as follows:
3 Meddling Mage
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Containment Priest
2 Pithing Needles
1 Misdirection
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Council's Judgement
1 Flusterstorm
What are some of your guys sideboards? And your reasoning behind those cards.
@The Architect , I haven't come across a Null Rod yet but when I do I would probably split with Needle 1/1
How is Myth Realized working out for you? Love that card!
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Amazing!!!! in my build its on par if not better than goyf most of the time! I am getting a 5/5 myth very reliably and not having to "force" any plays to do so.
Also to the person asking about Lands and Eldrazi. My lands match up is close. Honestly most of the time I either end up winning or we end up in a draw. I think this is so for a couple reasons. 1st being I played Lands myself for 3 years or so and I know how the deck works and how it funcitons very well. Secondly, because they have changed the list to allow theirselves to be hated out in a lot of instances. but if the meta was heavy lands I would up the Rest in Peace count to 2. The reason why I'm favorable against them is I board in 3x E. Tutor's, 1x Bitter Blossom, 1x Rest in peace and 1x Humility, along with the 4x main deck Shawman's to start with. I simply try and "turn off" their win con by either breaking parody early enough with bitter blossom (Thank God the Fae fly!!!) or land a Humility and not have to worry about a 1/1 marrit lage. The early game I am trying to use deathrites to keep the yard empty of life's, punishing fires, and waste lands. If the lands player is bad/unlucky enough to put a chasm in the board I will hit it immediately!!! most lands players I've seen, undervalue Glacial and have no idea how powerful it really is if used properly!
I am really wanting to play against the Eldrazi deck because I think I am pretty good against it as well, but need to make sure. Again I am going to rely on Humilty to do real work in that match up! If Eldrazi gets to crazy popular I may change up my sideboard to run a singleton Ensaring Bridge or something. I really like Humility as a solid answer in my deck for the major reasons of it nerfing so many creatures that are really popular right now, it gets around trinisphere and chalice and finally (most importantly) it doesn't negatively impact my deck!! I have to stay away from a mentor kill, but Myth Realized, Mishra Factories, and Creeping Tar Pit are all unaffected by Humility!!
I also tried myth realized at one point. It was very hit or miss. Some games, it was nuts and took over games as a 6/6 or bigger without any effort. In other games it was a terrible top deck, I played it turn 1 and slowly built it up waiting to attack around turn 4-5 only to have it immediately plowed, revokered or decayed.
It is a card I would consider again. It also plays really nice with sweepers, unlike the rest of our deck which is a plus.
I think the biggest plus for me is it plays EXTREMELY well with 4x standstills.... Actually it and Deathrite play well with standstill. I'm not sure if other versions of the mentor deck would really see the benefits I do out of myth. A nuts draw of turn 1 shawman, turn 2 myth + standstill and its an automatic draw 3 cards for me. Really anytime I get a myth under standstill its a draw 3 cards for me because I can actually start using the 2W: ability underneath of standstill and force them to break it or die to the threat.
Hey, I'm building my first truly "blue" deck and was thinking of building this one cause it seems fun!
How does this list look? Haven't started thinking about the sideboard yet
3 sea
3 tundra
1 Cavern of souls
4 polluted delta
4 flooded strand
2 island
1 swamp
1 plains
1 academy ruins
2 jace the mind sculptor
4 monastery mentor
3 snapcaster mage
2 baleful strix
2 engineered explosives
4 swords to plowshares
4 cabal therapy
4 force of will
2 spell pierce
1 counterspell
4 gitaxian probe
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
I won't claim to be a master of this deck, but I gave a version a test run in the MTG Training Grounds linked video. Lemme know what you all think :)
https://youtu.be/2zpbHAOXdKc
wow man, haven't seen you ever sling this deck! I'm the guy that goes to tournies with Aaron (the other Infect player you've talked to on several occassions). Crazy to see you using mentor and not infecting ppl like crazy! Great video!
I played TnA_Will's list at a small local thing, went 3-0-1 (played Elves, Painter, Team America, and Stoneblade), and had a blast. I cut a TNN for a JTMS and the 4th Factory for an Island maindeck, and ran a sideboard of:
2 Flusterstorm
1 FoW
1 Meddling Mage
1 E Tutor
1 RiP
1 Canonist
1 Humility
1 Pithing Needle
1 Containment Priest
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Clique
1 Verdict
2 Zealous Persecution
The board was definitely not ideal: I had to build this quite quickly before running out the door, and didn't have Seal of Cleansing handy, which led to the quick realization that I had no outs to arbitrary permanents (I'd should have at least jammed an EE or Council's Judgment), and had to suffer Needle, Blood Moon, and E Bridge at different points.
Building for the assorted prowess triggers and Standstill seem at odds in the abstract, but (fascinatingly) have a lot of synergy with the same cards. Myth Realized under Standstill is insane, and SDT is fantastic with either side of the deck.
I had quite a hard time sideboarding, as many of the "fair" cards are still quite strong against combo, and the many synergies also lead to semi-circumstancial cards that are hard to cut without hurting other cards, and so on.
Having only played 4 matches, here are a couple thoughts and directions I might try to go. Again, difficultly, any cuts are removing things which can be insane in the deck in particular board states, but might also get in the way of the speed the deck can have or be bad top decks:
- Trim some numbers on cards which are circumstantially powerful but can be really underpowered in other situations, particularly the 4th Myth Realized, Standstill, Cabal Therapy, and maybe Probe. Unusually, some of those (Myth/Therapy especially) are actually fine in multiples (although Myth activations can become taxing), but they can certainly have a lower floor than other cards, and can set up lousy anti-synergies (Mentor+Standstill, missing on Therapy without Probe/Mentor around).
- Add 3rd SDT, and get at least 1 counterbalance in the board (with tutors), or maybe several. Top is insane with, like, everything in the deck. With 7 prowess guys, it's a great aggro card. In the long game or under Standstill, the repeated selection is difficult to beat.
- I'd like a couple other maindeck counters to make Standstill a more meaningful response to TNN, unfair decks, etc. Pierce, Snare, or Counterspell all have pros and cons.
- I went up to 2 basics (at the cost of the 5th manland) and 3 feels doable, probably Swamp for 3rd U Sea. While the black needs of the deck are lower, being able to fetch T1 Swamp->DRS and hitting 3 mana on t2 through Wasteland is important, and the color requirements are mostly mild.
- I might try a maindeck Council's Judgment and (keep) JTMS as cards which are very high power-level in some match-ups and quite weak in others, as easier to cut in sideboarding. (Obviously I don't want to go looking for cards that are bad in unfair matches, but having very few may mean too many flat power-level cards without more cards that are particularly good in certain fair matches. Jace pushes the level more than TNN against Miracles.)
This also makes me more interested in trying the DRS/Mentor/Counterbalance deck that the Brainstorm Show was testing, and to try a straight UW (more traditional) Landstill build with Myth Realized.
I'm actually curious about Standstill in this list. You're playing Monastery Mentor that rewards you for playing non creature spells but also playing 4 Standstill that basically prohibits you from playing non creature spells while its on the field?
I'm sure OP has a better/fuller answer, but:
(1) They're obviously not usually synergistic unless you cast Standstill on a board of monk tokens (=win-more),
(2) They don't really clash problematically. If I was holding mentor with standstill out, then, assuming I cast it for a good reason, I'm quite happy to have more ammo and mana when they break it. If I'm holding standstill with mentor out, I'd usually prefer to have something else in hand, but a Mentor in play is pretty dang solid.
(3) They both play very well with a lot of the same cards.
All good/great points and pretty much right on the money with my thinking. To expand on it a little more, basically standstill is used as a replentish card (blue Painfull Truths) and doubles as an early preasure card with Myth Realized/factories. Also in mid to late game situations having deathrites in the deck it makes Standstills a non-dead card if drawn mid/late game with a deathrite or two in play. The Mentor in my build is only there as a kill card. I cast it, expecting to win the game the next turn. Either because I have enough in the grave yard, or I have refulled with a standstill. Hope that makes sense?
Sure does, thanks for the explanation. I'm going to start testing this online before going ahead and building it in paper!
I didn't post this above, but as a DRS+Probe+Therapy+Cantrip deck, it could be wrong to run <4 Mentors, any potential clashes aside.
Did you find 4 too clunky?
Since I appear have all the cards for this, is there any consensus on a stock list to start with if I wanted to give this a whirl?
Cockatrice: Bosque
The Architect's list on the previous page is solid based on experience and is easy to adjust based on your meta with the 3 flex slots. I haven't tested TnA_Will's standstill list yet but it looks solid on paper.
I was looking for some build that I like and finally found, I will begin testing and then come up with a report
Standstill + Myth is sweet
Sorry for my bad english
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