Esper Mentor

[TnA_Will]

I didn't post this above, but as a DRS+Probe+Therapy+Cantrip deck, it could be wrong to run <4 Mentors, any potential clashes aside.
Did you find 4 too clunky?

In my build yes I did find it to clunky. I really only want to use mentor when I'm ready to win the game. I really would like to see DRS's Myth's or even TNN over Mentor until turn 4 or 5 when I'm trying to win. Depending on how your list is set up I can see 4 mentor's being fine but its something that the deck would have to cater to and mine currently doesn't.

[anwei]

So, would you like to be running 3rd sdt, more counters, snapcaster, and/or jtms? Do you have a 61st card list? What would your most likely cuts be?

[TnA_Will]

So, would you like to be running 3rd sdt, more counters, snapcaster, and/or jtms? Do you have a 61st card list? What would your most likely cuts be?

Depending on the meta, I could see a 3rd top ( I just cut a 3rd top a week or so ago, and more counters) I wanted to go more of an aggro/aggressive build so I chose to run 4 therapies, 4x myths and 4 probes. If I decided to go more control my changes would be bringing in the 4th force, bring in 3rd top, bring in probably 2 counter balances and probably move from TNN and to Clique. So if I were to build it more controlish I would run something like this (warning I didn't manipulate the mana base in this build, I probably would if I were to build it):

Spells
4x Force of Will
3x Gitaxian Probe
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Cabal Therapy
3x sensei's divining top
4x Brainstorm
4x Standstill
3x Myth Realized
2x counter balance

Creatures
4x Deathrite Shawman
2x Monastary Mentor
2x V Clique (or 2x snap casters, don't really like JTMS in this build, potentially running 1 JTMS and 1 Clique would make sense here)

Lands
4x Polluted Delta
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Mishra's Factory
1x Marsh Flats
3x Underground Sea
3x Tundra
1x Bayou
1x Creeping Tar pit
1x Plains

Sidboard:
2x Zealous Persecution
2x Flusterstorm
1x V. Clique
1x Karakas
3x E. Tutor
1x BitterBlossom
2x Ethersworn Canonist


Flex board slots ( completely dependant on the meta.... usually I like to include humility due to my Myth's and Factories being unaffected. But if Emarkul isn't running around in the meta a lot then there really isn't as much of a need for this card.)
1x Elspeth knight-errant
2x Containment Priest
2x seal of cleansing
1x Chill
1x Humility
1x Rest in Peace

[Douif]

Hello,

Are there people still playing esper mentor right now ?

I'm essentially a storm player but I'd like to try to grind out my opponents with midrange/control strategies and esper mentor seems fun. But, I'm wondering about his matchup against the top tier atm. Eldrazi looks very unfavorable and esper mentor does not have secret tech like From the Ashes, Price of Progress or Moat (except if your're playing Lingering Souls or Bitterblossom) in order to fight the new spaghetti invasion. Moreover, the other top tiers, Miracles and Lands, looks unfavorable.
This deck is interesting but it looks like you are less control than Miracles and a worse grinder than Shardless.


Am I wrong about those statements ?

[TnA_Will]

Hello,

Are there people still playing esper mentor right now ?

I'm essentially a storm player but I'd like to try to grind out my opponents with midrange/control strategies and esper mentor seems fun. But, I'm wondering about his matchup against the top tier atm. Eldrazi looks very unfavorable and esper mentor does not have secret tech like From the Ashes, Price of Progress or Moat (except if your're playing Lingering Souls or Bitterblossom) in order to fight the new spaghetti invasion. Moreover, the other top tiers, Miracles and Lands, looks unfavorable.
This deck is interesting but it looks like you are less control than Miracles and a worse grinder than Shardless.


Am I wrong about those statements ?

I would tend to agree for the more traditional builds of Esper Mentor. Not sure what they are packing as far as removal for Eldrazi goes. I need to get in more playtesting to feel really good about my match up but for me its Bitter Blossom, and Humility as solid answers to the Eldrazi deck.

[Minniehajj]

Hello,

Are there people still playing esper mentor right now ?

I'm essentially a storm player but I'd like to try to grind out my opponents with midrange/control strategies and esper mentor seems fun. But, I'm wondering about his matchup against the top tier atm. Eldrazi looks very unfavorable and esper mentor does not have secret tech like From the Ashes, Price of Progress or Moat (except if your're playing Lingering Souls or Bitterblossom) in order to fight the new spaghetti invasion. Moreover, the other top tiers, Miracles and Lands, looks unfavorable.
This deck is interesting but it looks like you are less control than Miracles and a worse grinder than Shardless.


Am I wrong about those statements ?

Unfortunately, esper mentor as a whole is basically what you just said, less controlly than miracles, less good at going long than shardless, and both of these matchups are overall really poor for the deck. What this deck has over the other two, however, is that the deck can be slightly more aggressive than both, but I don't think the metagame at this point in time is at a place where an aggressive shell can prosper well. I've stopped playing the deck for quite sometime, moving back to my main archetype, but it'll still be in the back of my mind.

[TheArchitect]

Hello,

Are there people still playing esper mentor right now ?

I'm essentially a storm player but I'd like to try to grind out my opponents with midrange/control strategies and esper mentor seems fun. But, I'm wondering about his matchup against the top tier atm. Eldrazi looks very unfavorable and esper mentor does not have secret tech like From the Ashes, Price of Progress or Moat (except if your're playing Lingering Souls or Bitterblossom) in order to fight the new spaghetti invasion. Moreover, the other top tiers, Miracles and Lands, looks unfavorable.
This deck is interesting but it looks like you are less control than Miracles and a worse grinder than Shardless.


Am I wrong about those statements ?

This is fairly accurate at the moment. Esper Mentor does not seem as good in the current meta as it was pre-eldrazi. I still think its a better deck than esper stoneblade, and probably grixis control though.

[Patrunkenphat7]

I think this deck is fantastic right now, but I also think that perception depends entirely on your list. I think playing both CounterTop and Deathrite is important for beating a diverse meta.

Here is my list:

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype...r-25073#online

[dsck]

I think this deck is fantastic right now, but I also think that perception depends entirely on your list. I think playing both CounterTop and Deathrite is important for beating a diverse meta.

Here is my list:

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype...r-25073#online

Have you considered Dark Confidants? Aren't Cabal Therapies better post board than Thoughtseizes when you get that sweet extra value with Mentors?

[Patrunkenphat7]

Have you considered Dark Confidants? Aren't Cabal Therapies better post board than Thoughtseizes when you get that sweet extra value with Mentors?

Confidant would be interesting if I had the slots, but CounterTop does a good job of accruing value over the course of the game and is good against so many strategies. Counterbalance is the single best card in the deck against Miracles, Storm, Burn, and a variety of other popular decks. I like Thoughtseize over Therapy in the SB because I'm not trying to assemble a combo of Mentor + discard; I'm just using the discard on turn 1 and maybe Snapcaster it back on turn 3 to take the best card out of a combo player's hand.

[Arsenal]

I've been running this at my LGS and pretty impressed by it. I'm on Chapin's list, but with minor changes as to reduce curve. Very impressed at how well it can grind with the best of them, although I always feel about 1-2 spot removal spells short in g1. Anyone else have removal issues g1?

[jaska]

Esper Mentor list with CounterTop was featured on Starcity games a few days back.

So the question is, are there any others who've tested the Dementor list? It's a deck I've been thinking of running at the GP Prague. So far the list has felt pretty solid. It has game against a wide variety of lists and that's what I'm looking for. Also, you can fool people into thinking you're Miracles which can help sometimes.

[Arsenal]

Reading Chapin's article, he mentioned that Engineered Explosives was one of his sb cards that he strongly wanted to run maindeck. This was pre-Eldrazi, and I think EE maindeck makes perfect sense in today's meta. Having a maindeck answer to Chalice @ 1 while also serving as more removal; this deck has 4 StP + 1 Council's Judgment, that's very skimpy imo. He also mentioned that although sb Notion Thief didn't perform the blowouts he hoped, it wasn't necessarily wrong and that he needed more testing to see if it warranted a slot. With the top tier as it is, I feel good about running sb Notion Thief. This is what I'm running currently:

MAIN

2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Monastery Mentor

1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

1 Engineered Explosives

1 Council’s Judgment
2 Painful Truths
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder

2 Spell Pierce
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares

1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Scrubland
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
2 Island
2 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand

SIDE

1 Null Rod
2 Duress
2 Disfigure
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Notion Thief
1 Flusterstorm
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Containment Priest

[theMonster]

Hey, y'all, a DeathBlade player here who's interested in this archetype. I've been lurking in this thread for a while now and have some questions:

Shaman/CounterTop versions

- The mana seems really bad. Most lists I've seen run about 6 lands that can't cast Deathrite Shaman. With Counterbalance requiring and Shaman needing , have you guys found running four basics and three Tundras to be problematic? Sure, it's nice to be impervious to Wasteland, but is that at the expense of casting your cards on time?

Non-Shaman versions

- Do you find that you draw too little action too often? I've seen lists that run 12 cantrips, and that seems excessive and reliant on having Mentor out. And do you miss the versatility of a card like Shaman?

- Four Snapcaster Mages seems like a lot. Is it?

Both versions

- No love for Bob? Dark Confidant seems like everything the deck wants: it's on curve; it sucks up removal to clear the way for Monastery Mentor; if it lives, it accrues card advantage; and it attacks, which is in keeping with the midrange/more aggressive deck strategy. I think even running two copies would go a long way.

TnA_Will, are you still running your Standstill list? If so, how has it been treating you?

Thanks, y'all!

[Arsenal]

In my build, I'm leaning hard on Painful Truths + a billion cantrips. Not coincidentally, those spells are insane with an on-board Mentor. Deck space is tight, I don't know what I'd cut or if Bob is even necessary.

[TheArchitect]

@Aresenal: I like your list a lot. I still don't like deathrite, but if I had to play a deathrite list, mine would be very close to yours. Have you tried Anguished Unmaking over CJ? So far in my testing umaking has been VERY good.

Hey, y'all, a DeathBlade player here who's interested in this archetype. I've been lurking in this thread for a while now and have some questions:

Shaman/CounterTop versions

- The mana seems really bad. Most lists I've seen run about 6 lands that can't cast Deathrite Shaman. With Counterbalance requiring and Shaman needing , have you guys found running four basics and three Tundras to be problematic? Sure, it's nice to be impervious to Wasteland, but is that at the expense of casting your cards on time?

Non-Shaman versions

- Do you find that you draw too little action too often? I've seen lists that run 12 cantrips, and that seems excessive and reliant on having Mentor out. And do you miss the versatility of a card like Shaman?

- Four Snapcaster Mages seems like a lot. Is it?

Both versions

- No love for Bob? Dark Confidant seems like everything the deck wants: it's on curve; it sucks up removal to clear the way for Monastery Mentor; if it lives, it accrues card advantage; and it attacks, which is in keeping with the midrange/more aggressive deck strategy. I think even running two copies would go a long way.

TnA_Will, are you still running your Standstill list? If so, how has it been treating you?

Thanks, y'all!

Deathrite does indeed make the mana much worse. Contrary to what common sense might tell you, this 1 drop mana dork often makes casting your spells harder. This problem, and the way deathrite pushes the deck towards more aggression and less towards late game, are the reasons I think he is bad for this archetype.

For non-shaman versions, it depends how grindy the meta is, but I find that 3 snaps, 3 strix, 4 therapy and 3 jace/visions provide plenty of card advantage at all stages of the game. Strix is nuts right now by the way, I would sooner play 4 in this deck than play 2. I think 4 snapcasters would be fine, but this deck is already running quiet high on 3+ drops, so more 2 drops would be preferred.

Bob is bad because one of the advantages of this deck, over something like stoneblade, is you can blank removal with little effort. With 8 therapy/probe you know your opponents hand by turn 3 in the vast majority of your games. If their hand is full of removal, they probably have little pressure and you can wait and cast mentor later after you amass some counters, or therapies. If their hand is light on removal you cast mentor, and play a bunch of instants in response and then kill them wild nacatl tokens. If they have no removal, you play mentor, flood the board and win.

Bob could actually be a decent SB card against stuff like miracles or combo, but would be much stronger in an aggressive deck, and does not play well in this shell vs most decks.

[theMonster]

Thanks for your insights, TheArchitect. I have no reps with these lists, so I've got a lot of questions about the various versions.

So basically the game plan is to bob and weave and disrupt the opponent for a bit, then slam Mentor when the coast is clear and proceed to smash, right?

Bob seems like it would make more sense in a Deathrite deck because you put on more pressure early and force the opponent to have more answers.

Also, to Painful Truths or not? I've seen lists with 0-2 copies. And are you running Sensei's Divining Tops and/or Counterbalances? The former seems like a natural fit, but I'm not sure if during the course of a game you'd have spare mana to spin, given how often you're casting cantrips.

Thanks again!

[Arsenal]

I've been nothing but impressed by Deathrite in this deck. Not only does it give you g1 advantage vs decks that lean on their graveyard, but it allows us to have a late game plan that doesn't involve Mentor or Jace. The life gain is verrry relevant in long grinders, even moreso than the life drain imo, as we've dealt ourselves a significant amount of dmg early game with G Probe and P Truths. I really don't have any complaints about Deathrite and think he slots in very well in this deck; on curve, mana fixer, long game plan, allows for busted plays like t2 mentor while holding Force.

I haven't tested Anguished Unmaking. It's appealing, but I'm weary of another card that deals me dmg and it can't hit stuff where "target" matters (Mom, TNN, etc).

[Douif]

I'm testing this 75 right now :

Main :

2 Baleful Strix
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Monastery Mentor

4 Brainstorm
4 Sword to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
2 Spell Snare

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
2 Lingering Souls

2 Jace, the mind Sculptor
1 Liliana of the Veil

4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea

Sideboard:

2 Duress
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Moat
2 Flusterstorm
3 Disenchant
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Pithing Needle
1 Null Rod


I am still not sure about the sideboard, but I really like the 60.

[weaselface]

Been testing the countertop version a bit. Feels like the Shardless Bug MU is pretty bad. How would you people approach that MU?

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