Esper Mentor

[CptHaddock]

It's not as clunky as it looks. I was happy with the result against good decks. It easily wins the longer games and the early tempo games rely on hit the plentiful removal. Post-board having 6 STP, Push effects are great. I would say try it before assuming the worst.

I'd be interested in your list, looks like it wasn't posted in this round of 5-0s. It's almost like more removal and hatebears is the reason to play non Grixis Delver tempo strategies.

[itrytostorm]

I'd be interested in your list, looks like it wasn't posted in this round of 5-0s. It's almost like more removal and hatebears is the reason to play non Grixis Delver tempo strategies.

4x Flooded
1x Island
1x Karakas
2x Marsh Flats
1x Plains
4x Polluted Delta
1x Scrubland
1x Swamp
2x Tundra
2x Underground Sea

2x Baleful
3x Mentor
4x Snapcaster
3x SFM

4x Brainstorm
2x Fatal Push
4x FoW
2x STP

3x Therapy
3x Probe
2x Night's Whisper
3x Ponder
3x Unearth

1x Jitte
1x Batterskull

1x JTMS

SB:
1x Containment Priest
1x Judgment
2x Disenchant
2x Fatal Push
2x Fluster
1x Gideon AoZ
2x Surgical
1x Deluge
1x Vendilion Clique
2x Zealous persecution

[It Is Unfair]

I played a esper mentor deck in the last legacy challenge. Got 13:th place. 5-2 in matches. Here's the list from wizard's site.

[prepare4robots]

I played a esper mentor deck in the last legacy challenge. Got 13:th place. 5-2 in matches. Here's the list from wizard's site.

Thoughts on the deck? Viability? Changes you would make? Would you take it to a GP? :)

[TheArchitect]

Nice! How has Erayo been? That is not a card that I would have ever thought of.

[It Is Unfair]

Nice! How has Erayo been? That is not a card that I would have ever thought of.

Erayo was good for me in that shell, but in order to make it good I had to add more 0 Mana spells in the baubles, and most of the time the baubles are weaker than the alternatives (preordain or peek) would have been, so it makes it a lot more difficult to just compared the erayo in a vacuum.

[tescrin]

Good evening everyone,

I have been testing this build for a bit now, and it was only recently brought to my attention that there was a thread here. I think I have taken a very different approach from many of you. This is the current list:

I have been really liking the deck, and while on paper I agree Daze looks bad, it has been nothing but great in practice. That said, I have cut the truths from the main due to extreme life loss and having a 3 mana sorcery speed card that does not impact the board is simply not something I am interested in, especially in this combo-fueled meta.

I may try something like this out pretty soon. I'd swap the Jaces since I don't have them anymore and put in Collective Brutality; since I think pairing that with Cabal Therapy is the next big thing.

You may say "why..?" Well, pitching Therapy to Brutality to turn on it's Duress half not only gives you a hand view for Therapy's flashback, but a nigh-guaranteed hit (against the decks you'd use it against anyway.) The fact the card is very versatile is a nice plus and takes some of the weight off of Plows/Snaps to do everything.

[TheArchitect]

For anyone interested, I have not made it to any big events lately but this is the list I have been testing and liking so far. The MD flusterstorms have been awesome at protecting mentor in this meta with less Decays.

// 60 Maindeck
// 2 Artifact
2 Engineered Explosives

// 11 Creature
2 Gurmag Angler
4 Monastery Mentor
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Baleful Strix

// 15 Instant
4 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Flusterstorm

// 19 Land
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea

// 13 Sorcery
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
2 Night's Whisper


// 15 Sideboard
// 4 Creature
SB: 4 Meddling Mage

// 2 Enchantment
SB: 2 Back to Basics

// 6 Instant
SB: 2 Diabolic Edict
SB: 1 Disenchant
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Hydroblast

// 1 Planeswalker
SB: 1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

// 2 Sorcery
SB: 2 Toxic Deluge

[Drzed]

I have tested something similar but with some jace vryn in place of the strixes. I have found that the counterspells are worse without dig as the deck now is more tapout style so I'll swap them for discard spells. All in all the shell is promising but I need to test alot more. Night whispers are really good and I could see the deck playing up to 3 copies. I would also like to try some dazes as it's more proactive and synergizes well with jvp as the deck tend to flood sometimes and getting rid of excess lands for more action is really nice.

Sent from my MI 5 using Tapatalk

[gdtpara]

I played a esper mentor deck in the last legacy challenge. Got 13:th place. 5-2 in matches. Here's the list from wizard's site.

@It is Unfair : Quite interesting evolution from the UW list. I had some problems with it choosing either to play mentor turn 3 or keeping pierce or counterspell up, Therapy is great pickup for erayo flipping and setting up our turn 3 mentor. Gurmag is great addition (over clique i suppose), i am often too much dependent on mentor, but, why not Tasigur in this spot ?

[twndomn]

Is anyone still working on this deck? Is there no room for Jace?

[TheArchitect]

I have been playing the above list with -1 edict, -1 Hydroblast +2 Fatal Push and really liking it in the current meta. Jace could easily be played MD. It is the card I am the most on the fence about. If I did want them MD, I would play 1-2 Jace over the Night's Whisper in the MD. The benefit of not having jace is that the deck operates well on just 3 lands.

[ozimek]

I played Esper Mentor at a local four-round event a few days ago. I didn't think to look up this tread before I went.

This is the list I played:


//Lands
1 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Flooded Strand
3 Island
1 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
2 Underground Sea

//Spells
4 Brainstorm
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Fatal Push
4 Force of Will
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Painful Truths
4 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Toxic Deluge

//Creatures
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Monastery Mentor
3 Snapcaster Mage

//Sideboard
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 1 Disenchant
SB: 1 Engineered Plague
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Invasive Surgery
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Notion Thief
SB: 1 Perish
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Zealous Persecution

//Maybeboard
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Daze
1 Dimir Charm
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Meddling Mage
1 Vindicate


Overall the deck was really fun to play, even though I didn't do very well.

R1: Turbo-Depths
Surprizingly grindy. I had the kill on the board in turn 5 game 3, but missed a Cabal Therapy in my graveyard.
Draw

R2: Mono-red Stompy
Win G1 fairly quickly.
Get locked game 2.
G3 opener had Plans & 2 Mentors and some other stuff I never resolved due to Chalice. The Mentors went the distance though!
Win

R3: Grixis Delver
G1 I almost get a Mentor going, but can't find an answer for a pair of flipped Delvers
G2 I get too greedy with a Zealous Percecusion, as he has a Daze for it, even though he has already played one earlier, and seen only two cards since he had some nice Therapy.
Loss

R4: Mono-red Stompy with through the breach and fatties
G1 I win
G2 he has a not draw with very fast Chalice & blood moon
G3 I keep a two lander, and then he plays a Trinisphere. We do draw-go for a few turns, but I cannot find the third land, even with no Moon in play. I hold a Containment Priest in hand, but can't play it because of the Trinisphere, so eventually he finds a Through the Breach, and Emrakul finishes the game.
Loss

Seeing two Chalice decks in four rounds was pretty frustrating. I took out an EE as a last minute change, which left me with no answers to Chalice in te MD. In hindsight that was a pretty big mistake, but the EE just seemed pretty shaky with Deathrite Shaman.

[TheArchitect]

@ozimek: This deck dies pretty hard to chalice so I really like having a MD answer to it. I personally play 2 EE, no Deathrite which works great against chalice. If playing deathrite, I would consider 1-2 decay in your Push slots.


----------------------------------

After not having played magic in like 3 months, I played at a 65 person Channel Fireball event last weekend with this list and finished a kind of disappointing 10th, losing to what felt like terrible luck in my win-in.

I played this list:
4 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea

4 Baleful Strix
2 Gurmag Angler
4 Monastery Mentor
3 Snapcaster Mage

4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm

3 Cabal Therapy
2 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Counterspell

2 Engineered Explosives
4 Swords to Plowshares

//Sideboard:
2 Back to Basics
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Disenchant
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Meddling Mage
1 Painful Truths
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Toxic Deluge

I lost 5 of my 6 dice rolls and I lost all but 1 of my game 1s:
2-1 ANT - I misplayed ALOT but this deck is just too good against combo in game 2/3.
0-2 Maverick - I mulled and got thalia'ed/wasted into only play a few cantrips and dying both games.
2-1 UR delver - Punted hard game 1 with my fetch choices and tapping out for extra creatures I didnt even need and then died to double pop+fireblast. Game 2 and 3, I killed every creature on the spot and won with Anglers.
2-1 Grixis Delver - Very close and grindy games. At one point we each had all our lands mana producing lands in play and then also kept drawing fetches. Angler won both games again.
2-1 RUG Delver - The game I lost he had the perfect blind-flip T1 delver with daze+fow+stifle+waste. EE and strix made good look bad. Again, angler was really powerful.
0-2 Esper delver - My hands felt ok in these games, but I didn't see mentors and I made some big sequencing errors and ended up losing to a slow bleed from 2 lingering souls in each game. Strix and angler were really bad here and I kept drawing them.

Overall the deck felt really solid despite me playing it pretty bad. In retrospect, I might change around the counter suite a bit and go back up to 4 therapy, Angler was really good I might see if I can play 3 somehow.

Back to basics in the SB was pretty bad. In my head, I wanted it against delver, but it is too slow and doesn't help at all if your behind.

[twndomn]

With some amount of practices, I have to say: Probe is such a weak card. It's only great card when you also happen to have Therapy, or you have Mentor in play. However, when you're behind, it's a useless card that just replaces itself. Probe by itself, doesn't help you to get back to parity, or help you to get to a position where you want to deploy Mentor. If you're skillful enough with Therapy, Probe becomes a training wheel.

I still think board wipe spells like Supreme Verdict would serve the game plan better. DRS demands answer fast and you can't just rely on StP. Some decks are flashing back K-Command now, I rather run spell over EE, just to keep up with all the EV these Grixis decks are generating for themselves.

20 lands

3 Baleful Strix
1 Gurmag Angler
3 Monastery Mentor
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 TNN

4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Counterspell
1 Impulse <- like a mini-dig thru time, reminds me esper mentor of old
1 Preordain <- the fifth Ponder-like cantrip effect.
1 Jace TMS
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Council's Judgement
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Swords to Plowshares

[Capi5681]

With some amount of practices, I have to say: Probe is such a weak card. It's only great card when you also happen to have Therapy, or you have Mentor in play. However, when you're behind, it's a useless card that just replaces itself. Probe by itself, doesn't help you to get back to parity, or help you to get to a position where you want to deploy Mentor. If you're skillful enough with Therapy, Probe becomes a training wheel.

I still think board wipe spells like Supreme Verdict would serve the game plan better. DRS demands answer fast and you can't just rely on StP. Some decks are flashing back K-Command now, I rather run spell over EE, just to keep up with all the EV these Grixis decks are generating for themselves.

20 lands

3 Baleful Strix
1 Gurmag Angler
3 Monastery Mentor
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 TNN

4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Counterspell
1 Impulse <- like a mini-dig thru time, reminds me esper mentor of old
1 Preordain <- the fifth Ponder-like cantrip effect.
1 Jace TMS
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Council's Judgement
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Swords to Plowshares

There's a reason that G-probe is banned in modern and restricted in vintage, it is one of the best spells in the deck. It's essentially free air that is a spell for mentor + gives you full information of the opponents hand and can be flashed back by snapcaster. Completely disagree about your "training wheels" comparison

[JackaBo]

Yeah in a deck where you basically want mentors plus a bunch of spells to trigger it, a free spell that lets you plan your hand and also draws you a card is fantastic.
In a bad spot what's the difference between drawing a StP or drawing probe then probing into StP. Just think of your deck as a 56 card deck.

[Capi5681]

Yeah in a deck where you basically want mentors plus a bunch of spells to trigger it, a free spell that lets you plan your hand and also draws you a card is fantastic.
In a bad spot what's the difference between drawing a StP or drawing probe then probing into StP. Just think of your deck as a 56 card deck.

Yes totally agree. Also I forgot to mention in a couple posts up is that it allows you to play less lands. Im on 19 lands as opposed to everyone else's typical 20 in this archetype and I am perfectly happy with it. G-probe allows for a lower land build. Less land = More gas!

[twndomn]

I am totally aware of Mentor + Probe interaction, I'm referring to situation when you re Behind; please read my previous post again, as in, you are behind on board, facing down opponent's True-Name or DnT-lock, you don't find Mentor, you don't have therapy, you have Probe by itself.

Sure, you spend the resource (life/land) to replace Probe in your hand with another card, how impactful is that? You were behind before casting Probe, you're probably still behind after casting Probe. In the good old days, if I was behind, I would love to cast DTT. That's my argument here. Instead of Probe, cast something more impactful, preferably something that would get you back in the parity, that's why I am experimenting with Impulse. If I was facing down DnT's creature and equipment, Impulse would dig harder to find my equipment removal or SB card against vial decks. That's my point.

[Capi5681]

I am totally aware of Mentor + Probe interaction, I'm referring to situation when you re Behind; please read my previous post again, as in, you are behind on board, facing down opponent's True-Name or DnT-lock, you don't find Mentor, you don't have therapy, you have Probe by itself.

Sure, you spend the resource (life/land) to replace Probe in your hand with another card, how impactful is that? You were behind before casting Probe, you're probably still behind after casting Probe. In the good old days, if I was behind, I would love to cast DTT. That's my argument here. Instead of Probe, cast something more impactful, preferably something that would get you back in the parity, that's why I am experimenting with Impulse. If I was facing down DnT's creature and equipment, Impulse would dig harder to find my equipment removal or SB card against vial decks. That's my point.

You can't think about it like that because you potentially say that about any top-deck that doesn't help you in a particular situation.

"Damn Im facing down a true-name I could really use an edict effect right now
(DRAW) "ISLAND?! DAMMIT!!"

and dig through time isn't the same type of card as git probe I think you are completing missing the entire concept and theory behind it. DTT is a card advantage source whereas git probe is merely a cantrip effect - a free cantrip that gives you perfect information I may add. Having git probe in your deck actually makes your deck better when you're using the example of finding a particular answer card or looking for gas. It digs you deeper into your deck, your deck that is now essentially only 56 cards as opposed to 60.