Are there any differences between roukas' and hanni's 75?
Also, hanni, have you posted / can you post any other sideboarding plans you have? the d&t sideboard plan you posted below is interesting.
I haven't seen the list for his maindeck, so I cannot confirm if it is the same 100%, but based on the two matches I watched on camera, it looks the same.
His sideboard is a few cards different. He's playing 2 Rest in Peace instead of 2 Surgical Extraction, and he cut the Pithing Needle for a Hydroblast.
EDIT: I have not posted any of my other sideboard plans yet.
Last edited by Hanni; 10-29-2017 at 08:32 PM.
can I get an insight of why EE are so good in the board?
just a general lesson :)
Looks like Sam lost his win-and-in against Grixis Delver. That's unfortunate, but I'm still happy to see him do as well as he did with my list.
Because there simply isn't any room to run them in the maindeck. The deck needs 20 blue spells for Force of Will, and everything else in the maindeck is just better IMO.Originally Posted by NegatorITA
If you're asking why EE itself is good... it's because EE has the ability to deal with nearly every problematic permanent you might be worried about, and can often 2-for-1 or better. The 2 EE's combine with Zealous Persecution and Toxic Deluge to give the deck 4 sweepers vs Elves, D&T, etc. I won my game 3 in the quarterfinals against Czech Pile because an EE@2 blew up a Sylvan Library and Jace, Vryn's Prodigy before my opponent could get any value out of either one.
it was the second explanation I wanted:
Like, why you have chosen EE over extra deluge or extra zealos :)
here is the list of Sam
I've a tournament sunday and I'll like to bring that deck, but I've never played it ahha so while the maindeck is self-explanatory at least, for the sideboard choices are a lot harder to understand by just guessing why such card was chosen over another.
I've been working on tuning Esper sideboards for a long time now, so I feel pretty comfortable putting them together. The sideboard might look like a pile of random cards, but it's actually meticulous and well thought-out.
For example, I opted for a 1/1 split of Persecution and Deluge because there are matchups where Persecution is just so good, but there are matchups where it's not but Deluge is. ZP is much better against Infect, and the instant speed makes it much better against Rishadan Port against D&T. It's also better against ANT/TES/Belcher. The fact that ZP is never dead since it can pump Mentor + tokens is awesome, and being able to blank Bolt on Mentor or win a Battersull vs Gurmag fight is just icing. On the other hand, Toxic Deluge gives me a clean answer to Leovold, and is generally much better against Czech Pile. I don't even board ZP in against Pile, unless I've seen TNN. Deluge also deals with Prelate where ZP does not. So on and so forth.
I opted for 1 Disenchant and 1 Council’s Judgment because 1W is much easier to produce to deal with Chalice and Blood Moon, and is easier to produce to deal with Jitte against D&T or Bant Deathblade. Disenchant being castable at instant speed is relevant against Aluren, Food Chain, Omniscience, etc. On the other hand, Judgment offers me a clean answer to TNN and Leovold. Being able to hit more than just artifacts/enchantments is good too... I'd be hardpressed to run 2 Disenchant because of how narrow they are, but 1 Disenchant 1 Judgment is much easier to justify.
Those are just two examples, but that's basically how the entire board was built.
indeed and not being in your head make me think hard about the choices:
For example, what surprizes me is that only 1 deluge vs pile is enough, but probably that's my way of sideboarding:
I always try to make a sideboard with two of the same card, unless they do a similar thing (like reb/pyro, or needle/revoker rod since they hit the same AND different things) but otherwise it's hard to not play two deluge and two zealous instead of 1 +1 + 2 EE for me :D that's why I started my questioning with that post about EE utilities :)
i've no doubt it works, but I also know that If I want to play that thing (and indeed I'd) I've either to make my own board or at least understad why these cards are there :P (my brain is like: "only one FLUSTERSTORM? two please " ahha)
The one Flusterstorm is actually the 3rd Spell Pierce, except it's narrower, but more powerful.indeed and not being in your head make me think hard about the choices:
For example, what surprizes me is that only 1 deluge vs pile is enough, but probably that's my way of sideboarding:
I always try to make a sideboard with two of the same card, unless they do a similar thing (like reb/pyro, or needle/revoker rod since they hit the same AND different things) but otherwise it's hard to not play two deluge and two zealous instead of 1 +1 + 2 EE for me :D that's why I started my questioning with that post about EE utilities :)
i've no doubt it works, but I also know that If I want to play that thing (and indeed I'd) I've either to make my own board or at least understad why these cards are there :P (my brain is like: "only one FLUSTERSTORM? two please " ahha
The two EE are swiss army knives which come in against almost every matchup. Where Deluge would be dead against Lands, you have EE, which deals with Vortex, Exploration, Drop of Honey, Chalice, etc. Against other decks, it can deal with Planeswalkers and other problematic artifacts/enchantments like Sylvan Library that Deluge cannot. In the meantime, you still get 4 sweepers vs Elves. EE is a faster answer to Chalice than Council’s Judgment, and less narrow than Disenchat. In the meantime, you still get 4 answers to Chalice. So on and so forth.
I actually IM'd Sam Roukas after the Open asking him how he liked the deck, and one of his comments was that he was suprised how well designed the sideboard was throughout the event.
well well, are you two discussing the board changes he made too :P?
I'll see what happens shame I don't have much time to practice (if nothing at all) before the event :7
Yes, the board changes he made were because he didn't have the cards on hand (Surgical and Needle), and couldn’t get any in time. I didn't ask him if he liked the changes better or not. I'd still run my exact 75 when I play with the deck again, though.
I played at Channel Fireball 4k but did not do well. I made some vital mistakes, but also made some last minute SB changes which were probably mistakes. I am also not as comfortable playing the deathrite version. I am more used to the deck being a control deck that combos out and wins with mentor. As soon as you add deathrite the decks gets much more aggressive (not a bad thing, just different). I can see what hanni means with having another must answer early threat (stoneforge) being a good thing for the deck. But SFM is a good control/long game plan for when it needs to be. I might have to give stoneforge another chance ;)
Sorry to hear that you didn't do well, but I'd still be interested to see what you played against or how some of the matchups may have played out.
How has been Sword of Fire and Ice for you ?
In which matchup do you put it in ?
I have always played Sword of Feast in Famine in this 3rd equipment slot mainly since it is the only good equipment against combo.
How do you like Pithin Needle right now ?
Sword of Fire and Ice comes in against Czech Pile, Miracles, Lands, Food Chain, Aluren, Bant Deathblade... basically, any matchup with Baleful Strix or True-Name Nemesis, or control decks with few to no creatures.
Arguably, Sword of Feast and Famine would also get around Baleful Strix, and is a better choice against BUG Delver, Shardless BUG, Maverick, and Aggro Loam, but I think SoFI is better positioned right now? Honestly, I'd say the choice of Sword is a metagame call.
I don't want equipment against combo though. I cut some or all of the SFM package against combo. Vs Storm, I keep 2 SFM and 1 Batterskull, but against Reanimator and Sneak Show, I cut the whole thing.
The reason for Batterskull vs storm is because it's serviceable against Goblin tokens, the lifegain can sometimes keep them from getting to a lethal Tendrils, whilst being a decent clock.
Against the other combo matchups, DRS + hatebears is a perfectly legitimate clock once I'm stocked with disruption and interaction, and Monastery Mentor can close the game out very quickly otherwise.
I always like Pithing Needle. I include it as at least a one-of in almost every sideboard I put together. There are so many problematic things that Needle deal with. It's at it's best against Lands and D&T, but I bring it in against Aluren, Food Chain, Infect, Turbo Depths, Turbo Eldrazi, MUD, and a ton of other matchups. It's a solid answer to problematic Planeswalkers like Liliana, Chandra, Tezzeret, and Dack. It's a card that gives me a unique answer/angle of attack that is invaluable to me. I wouldn't say this is a slot that it set in stone per say, but it does so much work in so many matchups that I don't see why anyone would cut it.
Thanks for this interesting argumentation :)
Do you keep all Mentors against fast combo ?
I guess with your discard + mage package, it seems not that risky to tap out for it, not like in UWr Miracles where it is suicide on turn 3.
Are you 100% convinced that Surgical Extraction is better than Rest in Peace ? RiP is awesome against BUG Delver, RUG Delver, Lands, 4c Loam while being quite good against Reanimator and Storm.
You convinced me again (i used to like it when i played it) about Pithin Needle :) . Against Turbo Eldrazi and MUD, what do you name blind ?
I tested Grixis Pyromancer and UWr Miracles and i didn't like it so i will test your deck now :) (I still love 4c Leovold though).
Haaa Legacy is great, some many nice possibilities :)
In general, I keep in all Mentors against combo decks. If you count Infect as a combo deck, then no, I trim 2 Mentor in that matchup (and some other cards) instead of the SFM package, for obvious reasons.
I'm not 100% on Surgical over Rest in Peace. There are definitely matchups where RIP is really good where Surgical is not, or where Surgical is worse. Examples include BUG Delver, RUG Delver, and Aggro Loam. On the other hand, Surgical is much better against combo decks, including Turbo Depths, and I'd rather have Surgical against BR Reanimator.
The reason I've decided on Surgical over RIP is because it has more synergy with the rest of my deck. Surgical is free, which is better for Mentor. Surgical works really well with Probe, Therapy, and Meddling Mage. On the other hand, RIP shuts down my DRS and the other half of my Therapy's.
A possibility certainly exists to run a 1/1 split, but I don't think I'd ever straight cut 2 Surgical for 2 RIP.
Blind naming Needle is totally context dependent. Typically, I'm not blind naming, instead saving it until something comes down that requires it, or I've seen their hand with Probe/Therapy, but again, it entirely depends on the current gamestate.
Against Turbo Eldrazi, there are a number of great targets. Early on, Expedition Map can slow them down from making big mana. Later on, Candelabra can slow them down from making even bigger mana. Much later on, Eye of Ugin can stop them from tutoring up Ulamog or Emrakul. If I have a B2B, Candelabra is the obvious name. More often than not, I'm not proactively playing Needle and blind naming with it. If they blindside me with an Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, I'd like to have an answer.
Against MUD, there is Metalworker, Kuldotha, Ugin, sometimes Karn, Inventor's Fair, and occasionally they have other high impact activated abilities. Again, I'm rarely if ever blind naming here.
Since I won't have a Back to basic for this event, what should I run in its place?
Back to Basics is a great haymaker against a number of decks, but it's not a critical slot like most everything else is. I would consider it to be a flex slot, so what you put in there is either going to depend on your expected metagame, or what you want another sideboard card against.
If you're expecting more midrange grindy, maybe it could be a Painful Truths, Lingering Souls, Bitterblossom, or another Planeswalker. If you wanna go greedy, maybe even a Sylvan Library or Leovold. Notion Thief could also be spicy.
If you're expecting Lands and Reanimator, a 3rd Surgical or a Rest in Peace could work. Containment Priest isn't bad if you are expecting Elves and Sneak&Show. Karakas could also be a good sideboard card.
If you want more for Delver, you could run a Path to Exile or Fatal Push. Perish hits your own Deathrites, but is really good against BUG Delver, RUG Delver, Elves, Maverick, Shardless BUG, decent against Aggro Loam...
Sam Roukas ran a Hydroblast, which doesn't seem bad either. Ultimately, I cannot make this decision for you. It's probably not a big deal regardless of what you decide to jam in to replace the Back to Basics.
EDIT: I would browse through this thread and the Deathblade thread for lists that others have posted if you want more ideas.
I expect the top players will all have:
4c / Grixis control ( grixis is the deck I play too, it's pellenik list you see online, or, mengucci's 4c with anglers over leovold in the main and blood moon in the board)
Other than these, some aluren and some delvers/bant deathblade should be the expected deck
So maybe a library or a pw or something to defeat kolaghan/Liliana the last hope
If you expect alot of TNN, Planeswalkers are less good. If you expect alot of Leovold, options like Library and Truths are less good.
I like the idea of Bitterblossom or Lingering Souls against these, although maybe another Toxic Deluge is better. I really don't know. I usually just bring in Back to Basics against Czech Pile and Bant Deathblade. Maybe Llawan, Cephalid Empress could be good?
Either way, I'm not sure that one slot is going to make or break your weekend.
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