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Thread: Esper Mentor

  1. #61

    Re: Esper Mentor

    I played TheArchitect's list today + cavern/kid jace at an SCG IQ for a top 4 split (list is below) against:
    • BUG Standstill (0-2) - Hard match-up as I lost the attrition game to his many board sweepers
    • Nicfit (2-0) - Lopsided in my favor as I played DTT and he didn't
    • Elves (1-1-1) - Had lethal on board and could only get opp down to 1 life on turn 5. I asked politely if he'd concede, but he declined. Opp said it was his second time playing legacy, which explains his slow play + numerous questions.
    • Miracles (2-1) - Cavern locked up G2. G3, I probed his opening hand and saw 2 blood moons, so I countered all his brainstorms and he had no answer to Elspeth/Needle.
    • MUD (2-0) - Opponent kept below average hands in my opinion.
    • Top 8: Elves, piloted by Jonathan Morawski (2-1) - G1, I kept a 6 card hand on the draw with a plains as my only land (I didn't know what he was on). Probe didn't find a land on my turn and by the time I got my 2nd land on turn 3, I was too far behind. G2, Toxic Deluge + JtMS made room for my monk tokens to swing lethal. G3, he goes down to 6 cards and a Therapy takes two Glimpses. Perish + Kid Jace sealed it.
    • Top 4 split


    Card choices

    Sideboard: Going into an unknown meta I made a judgement call to forgo the Hydroblast and Timely Reinforcements for some extra hate against Miracles and Goyfs. The changes ended up paying off since I didn't play against anything red.

    Cavern of Souls: This was pretty good against Miracles, but mediocre everywhere else (to be fair, I only played against one real counter magic deck). As far as the swamp it replaced, I was never in a situation where I wish I had the the basic swamp. But, I was limited a couple times with the Cavern's colorless mana. It wasn't back-breaking, but it did slow my tempo down when I couldn't play two or three spells a turn. I think I'll keep playing it to get some more testing in, but I think it might be better in the sideboard.

    Jace, Vryn's Prodigy: Amazing! I flipped him multiple times and even ulted against Nic Fit after my opponent cast Extirpate on my Mentors. I was usually able to get at least two flashbacks with him, which would put me way ahead of my opponent. Obviously, Snapcaster Mage is no slouch, but I'd test out this out if you're not playing against many Karakas decks.

    Perish: After losing against RUG delver twice recently, I made a last minute change to put Perish in instead of a Hydroblast. I can see why Soorani plays a pair of them -- it's usually game over when it resolves. DRS/Goyf/Mongoose/Elves fold pretty hard to this.

    List
    19 Land:
    1 Cavern of Souls
    1 Marsh Flats
    1 Plains
    2 Island
    3 Tundra
    3 Underground Sea
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Polluted Delta

    1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
    1 Snapcaster Mage
    2 Baleful Strix
    4 Monastery Mentor


    3 Dig Through Time
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Ponder

    2 Counterspell
    2 Spell Pierce
    4 Force of Will

    1 Toxic Deluge
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Swords to Plowshares

    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    Sideboard:
    1 Council's Judgment
    1 Disenchant
    1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
    1 Null Rod
    1 Perish
    1 Pithing Needle
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Zealous Persecution
    3 Meddling Mage

  2. #62
    Cabal Therapist
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    Re: Esper Mentor

    Congrats on your success! Perish is a very powerful card, but not one that I think is necessary in a deck like this. Goyf is the least scary good 2-drop that people play. But I do think that more miracles hate is warranted. I still have not really liked little Jace too much. Hes rarely bad, but usually seems less useful than snapcaster.

  3. #63
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    Re: Esper Mentor

    So is this deck likely unplayable now that dig is banned?

  4. #64

    Re: Esper Mentor

    Ehh, I think it takes the ban better then alot of other decks, such as omnitell. Just have to replace Digs with threats likely.

  5. #65

    Re: Esper Mentor

    Quote Originally Posted by Tantarus View Post
    Ehh, I think it takes the ban better then alot of other decks, such as omnitell. Just have to replace Digs with threats likely.
    Haven't really played this deck, but it still might be viable even without Dig since it takes less of hit than other Dig decks. I think for replacing Dig you might want to look at outlets of card advantage as well, like adding another Jace, TMS or a third Snapcaster. Mentor still seems like a solid threat in a world without Dig unlike Young Pyromancer...
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysandros View Post
    I'm a crusty "old" player who would play nothing but Vintage, Legacy and 93/94 if I could, so I'm probably biased...but I'll never understand the draw to Modern. It's the Communist Soviet Union of MtG formats.
    In regards to Legacy:
    Quote Originally Posted by GrimoirePath View Post
    I dont know, I guess I like the anarchistic, outlaw format that allows everything and can thrive with or without the papal blessing.

  6. #66

    Re: Esper Mentor

    I personally never liked dig as a card in the deck since it made the deck have too much card draw for my taste so I ran Gurmag Angler instead of them. Gurmag Angler was great for me since it was as threatening as Monastery Mentor in some matchups and gets around hate for Monastery Mentor.

  7. #67
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    Re: Esper Mentor

    Quote Originally Posted by Minniehajj View Post
    So is this deck likely unplayable now that dig is banned?
    Absolutely not. The ban might even be a net positive for this deck.

    - Mentor is the premier control-deck creature of choice, an upgrade of stoneforge, TNN or lingering souls used in past esper shells. Esper was a fine deck pre-Khans, but got pushed out of the meta by shardless bug. This deck crushes shardless bug, with or without dig.

    - Discard is much better now.

    - In the miracles and grixis matchups, they were way better dig decks because they also had pyroblast. This is no longer an issue.

    I have not really tested the deck without dig, but have done some theory crafting. I am not sure about exact numbers, but the contenders to take its place are some combination of, 1 snapcaster, 1-3 little jace, 1 JtMS, 1 Sorin/elspeth, 20th land, 1-2 Taisigur/Angler.

    The sideboard will probably change a fair amount as well as the meta shifts.

  8. #68

    Re: Esper Mentor

    I think I will probably try replacing Digs with 1x JTMS, 1x Angler, and Cavern of Souls. Maybe a 3rd Snap over Angler. Will see.

  9. #69
    Predictor of Miracles
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    Re: Esper Mentor

    Anyone have any lists or things they want to share with the first weekend post-ban?

  10. #70
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    Re: Esper Mentor

    IMO the deck really needs the digs to keep up with the other decks. All these cantrips are just worse if you can't exile them for CA. I think just getting little monks and some CQ isnt enough.

  11. #71

    Re: Esper Mentor

    Quote Originally Posted by Minniehajj View Post
    Anyone have any lists or things they want to share with the first weekend post-ban?
    I'm testing this one, that makes Top 1 in my region. Give it a try!

    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Flooded Strand
    3 Tundra
    3 Underground Sea
    1 Misty Rainforest
    2 Island
    1 Swamp
    1 Plains
    1 Scrubland
    3 Jace, the Mindsculptor
    4 Ponder
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Cabal Therapy
    1 Toxic Deluge
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Counterspell
    3 Monastery Mentor
    2 Snapcaster Mage
    3 Baleful Strix

    Sideboard:

    1 Null Rod
    3 Meddling Mage
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Zerlous Persecution
    2 Vendilion Clique
    2 Council’s Judgment
    1 Timely Reinforcements

  12. #72
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    Re: Esper Mentor

    Here is the list I'm going to be testing. In the pre-ban version, I found I was tapping out a lot so I wanted to try out daze. Also, I wanted some additional threats and figured that deathrite could function as a threat and help play a turn 2 mentor. Interested to hear what you guys think!

    4 deathrite shaman
    2 baleful strix
    2 snapcaster Mage
    4 monastery mentor
    4 swords to plowshares
    4 gitaxian probe
    4 ponder
    4 brainstorm
    4 cabal therapy
    4 daze
    4 force of will
    1 dismember
    1 Jace, the mind sculptor
    3 underground sea
    3 tundra
    1 scrubland
    1 tropical island
    4 flooded strand
    4 polluted delta
    1 misty rainforest
    1 marsh flats

    Sideboard

    1 null rod
    1 disenchant
    1 hydroblast
    2 submerge
    1 misdirection
    2 surgical extraction
    1 bitterblossom
    1 perish
    2 zealous persecution
    2 meddling mage
    1 notion thief

  13. #73

    Re: Esper Mentor

    Quote Originally Posted by Topazwarrior View Post
    4 daze
    1 Jace, the mind sculptor
    Has the combination of daze and Jace ever given you issues? I feel like with wasteland, stifle, rishadan port making a resurgence, setting yourself back land drops may make getting to 4 cmc difficult.

  14. #74
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    Re: Esper Mentor

    That's a great point. Jace and dismember were the last 2 cards I put in, but they may be better as preordains to smooth the draws and fuel mentor once it's in play. Any suggestions on what could replace Jace?

  15. #75

    Re: Esper Mentor

    Drop JtMS and the Snapcaster Mage for Jace the flipwalker.

    From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

  16. #76
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    Re: Esper Mentor

    I can second that Flip Jace is quite good. I'm still probably considering Lingering Souls as a good way to replace DTT since it allows us another angle of attack, or perhaps Angler. I dislike that Staticaster could be insane against us. I'm looking for a decent 75 to help tune, but there's not a lot of data to go off of after the banning.

  17. #77

    Re: Esper Mentor

    I can vouch for lingering souls being effective in the deck. It is decent for Cabal Therapy flashbacks. I have recently tested Sorin, Solemn Visitor and it has been insane. I have rarely lost a game when I resolved it and it has enabled me to win in some heavily unfavored situations. I have also tried Umezawa's Jitte main in a more threat dense build and found it to be contradictory since I want to board it out against a few decks that it is good against for null rod and pithing needle to deal with opposing Umezawa's Jitte. It did performs great at times yet it feels win more often. I want to more testing with it before I reach a conclusion. I sadly do not have a list that is at the point in testing where I feel comfortable sharing it.

  18. #78

    Re: Esper Mentor

    Quote Originally Posted by Topazwarrior View Post
    That's a great point. Jace and dismember were the last 2 cards I put in, but they may be better as preordains to smooth the draws and fuel mentor once it's in play. Any suggestions on what could replace Jace?
    Honestly, I would consider
    -1 Dismember
    -1 Jace
    +2 Murderous Cut.

    I like the preordain idea, but I feel like this deck needs some more removal.

  19. #79
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    Re: Esper Mentor

    I've been playing TheArchitect's list with 2 Lingering Souls and 1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor in place of DTT and it's been rather lackluster to be honest. Deck feels weaker with this setup, and Lingering Souls doesn't do too much. This is in limited testing on cockatrice against Miracles, Shardless, Jund, Storm, etc.

  20. #80
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    Re: Esper Mentor


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