It's less about Mentor making equipment better than it is about equipment making residual Monk tokens less anemic. As for Visions, I played various Grixis tempo and midrange lists when Pyromancer was first printed, and the decks always needed a way to make sure they didn't run out of gas in the mid-to-late game. I could easily see the Visions becoming Fact or Fiction, Painful Truths, or Night's Whisper in a more tuned list, but the deck needs a way other than Jace to actually draw more cards.Originally Posted by TheArchitect
Fact or fiction seems right up our alley to be honest.
I've done some testing with this list, and really like it. I might pull the trigger on it at my weekly Legacy event.
//Creatures
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Monastery Mentor
2 Baleful Strix
//Spells
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Spell Pierce
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Murderous Cut
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
//Lands
2 Island
1 Plains
3 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
1 Cavern of Souls
//Sideboard
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 1 Disenchant
SB: 2 Meddling Mage
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
SB: 1 Council's Judgment
SB: 1 Timely Reinforcements
SB: 1 Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Null Rod
Saw this list come in 5th at an IQ:
4 Monastery Mentor
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Marsh Flats
4 Ponder
3 Counterbalance
3 Dark Confidant
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Swamp
2 Island
1 Plains
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
2 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
Sideboard
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Rest in Peace
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Flusterstorm
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Engineered Plague
2 Meddling Mage
1 Massacre
Thoughts?
I am curious about the reasoning behind the 2 Rest in Peace in the sideboard since it is not synergetic with the Cabal Therapy and Deathrite Shaman. I also wonder if the 3 Swords to Plowshares was enough removal mainboard and if not wanting to sacrifice a Deathrite Shaman or Dark Confidant to Cabal Therapy when you need to answer a threat in their hand came up often. I do like the idea of using Deathrite Shaman and Dark Confidant along side countertop in that list.
Against some decks, it is worth nuertering your own Deathrite and half of your Therapy to completely shut down their deck.
Dredge, Storm, Tarmogoyf, Mongoose, Knight, Reanimation, all eat dirt to Rest In Peace. If they can't do a damn thing, beating them down with a 1/2 Deathrite is a fine option.
Thinking about running esper mentor at at Seattle GP. Would love to see some more deck lists and get some insight. Think I'm going to run three baleful strix, mentor and jace. Seems good.
I ran the list that Minniehajj posted above at a local yesterday.
I've been out of Magic for a few months, and there was a lot of sloppy play on my part. Letting Jace die to Tar Pit, forgetting to Probe before Therapy on one occasion, stumbling on mana because I hadn't memorized the duals. I ended up a dismal 0/2/1.
Here's a couple thoughts I had about the deck...
1.) It feels like it needed a Scrubland. Not sure what to take out to make room. Maybe a Tundra or a non-land. I definitely feel like the 2nd Underground is required, and I don't think it should cut a fetch, basic, or green source.
2.) The CounterTop combo seemed super clunky. I like CounterTop, and I like all the other cards in the deck, but jamming CounterTop into the deck at 3 copies of each seemed very odd. I'm sure the guy who piloted it to a decent SCG finish knows more than I do, but I don't think I'd run this exact list again.
3.) Even though I piloted it like a fool, and my Therapy-fu is generally weak, I like most of the deck.
If I decide to play it again, I'll try to share more thoughts.
Literally version 1.0! Haven't tested yet however I have tested Myth with Standstill over the past 3 starcitygames Legacy opens with great results... If Myth sticks it can get very good very quick and I've stared down goyfs making them waste abrupt decays on it.
Lands (22)
1 Creeping Tar Pit [WWK]
4 Flooded Strand [KTK]
1 Island [M15]
4 Mishra's Factory [4ED]
2 Plains [M15]
4 Polluted Delta [KTK]
3 Tundra [LEA]
3 Underground Sea [3ED]
Creatures (3)
3 Monastery Mentor [FRF]
Other Spells (35)
4 Brainstorm [MMQ]
4 Cabal Therapy [JUD]
2 Counterspell [7ED]
4 Force of Will [ALL]
3 Gitaxian Probe [NPH]
3 Lingering Souls [DDK]
4 Myth Realized [DTK]
2 Sensei's Divining Top [CHK]
4 Standstill [ODY]
1 Supreme Verdict [RTR]
4 Swords to Plowshares [ICE]
Sideboard (15)
1 Bitterblossom [MOR]
3 Enlightened Tutor [6ED]
2 Ethersworn Canonist [MMA]
2 Flusterstorm [CMD]
1 Humility [TMP]
1 Karakas [LEG]
2 Rest in Peace [RTR]
1 Vendilion Clique [MOR]
2 Zealous Persecution [ARB]
Everyone has days like that, I wouldn't be too worried, just keep it up! As for scrubland, I think we want a saturation of blue lands so I wouldn't play a scrubland. You just need to be a bit more aware of what duals you have available. Personally, I wouldn't go below 3 U-Seas in the deck, as I don't like basics in a deck that is truly 3-color like this one is.
As for Countertop, being primarily a miracles pilot, I could see the attraction of it, (mentor plus double top and going bananas), but it requires a very different playstyle than most players are accustomed to. I would imagine that this version of the deck would play more like mentor miracles from last season played, but we have hand disruption and probe instead of daze and terminus. Countertop also shores up the lack of the third swords (as another user mentioned) since it will often trade for a creature when you establish it.
Rest in peace is likely not correct, I'd rather play some version with surgical extraction, or relic, etc.
Saturating decay targets like this feels fine, but I'm not going to be the biggest fan of myth in a shell like this to be quite honest. Standstill is a very interesting idea, but it doesn't lend itself well to the mentor plan of chaining cantrips together to create tokens (on paper). In practice, I imagine mentor is more of a long game threat that standstill won't be interacting with it. That being said, if/when you test it out, let us know! I'm intrigued by it.
As I mentioned above, I think that the rest in peace is likely just straight up wrong. Also, countertop serves as removal as well, but 3 swords is kinda pushing it
in my build the rest in peace is there for G/R lands, dredge, and the random pox/reanimator/crazy gy decks... In my build I could probably go down to 1 since I have tutor in my board. I'm itching to start play testing this thing and see how it handles different match ups in the meta!
Getting demolished by shardless now...
Shardless has problematic for me as well recently.
I am interested in trying 1-3 Sensei's Divining Top main probably without Counterbalance for filtering and giving Monastery Mentor spells when you have all dead or no cards in your hand. Another card I want to try at some point is Seeker of the Way in a more synergy based list.
Playing in a local event tonight. I can tell you guys in my testing of my build/goldfishing I have already taken out 2x lingering souls and added 2x True-Name Nemisis. This was done for a couple reasons. 1st: adds to blue count (had FOW and no pitch card a few times!) 2: it seemed like a much better threat with a Jitteless deck over souls (yeah I know souls works with mentor/myth) but it just didn't seem as powerful on it's own as TNN.
I will write up a full report from the tournament and how things go. For redundancy and to get to it quicker I am also running 3 tops. Seems really good so far but determining the "turn 1" play in my deck seems a bit odd at times.... unlike the Esper tempo decks I've played in the past (stoneblade, home brew called bitterstill, and even the old thopter/balance decks) the turn 1 play seems very dependent on what land I have, what I want to do on turn 2-4, etc.... I am finding that the deck plays a lot more like a control deck that can "cheat" in some wins by quickly "comboing" off with mentor/tops,etc...
on the play game one, "not knowing the opponents deck", I goldfished this opening hand/scenario and wasn't really sure what the right play would be.....
Fetch land, tundra, Mishra's factory, Swords to Plowshares, Top, Brainstorm, Cabal Therapy.
knowing that I didn't have a counterspell and that I could flashback therapy to rip counterspells if I had to I went turn 1 fetch, get underground sea, cast cabal therapy naming FOW....
Turn 2 I drew, played mishras factory, had factory open to flashback therapy and used sea to cast top.
I could also see where laying the tundra, passing the turn bringing online STP and saving the brainstorm/fetch could be a good play as well...
Like I said I just wasn't really sure how this deck "wants" to play yet.... Any ideas/advice on which play line feels more correct to you guys?
Go ahead and repost your list real quick, with whatever changes you've made, I'd be interested to analyze the scenario when I know the list
1 Creeping Tar Pit [WWK]
4 Flooded Strand [KTK]
1 Island [M15]
4 Mishra's Factory [4ED]
1 Plains [M15]
4 Polluted Delta [KTK]
3 Tundra [LEA]
3 Underground Sea [3ED]
1 Scrubland [3ED]
Creatures (3)
3 Monastery Mentor [FRF]
Other Spells (35)
4 Brainstorm [MMQ]
4 Cabal Therapy [JUD]
2 Counterspell [7ED]
4 Force of Will [ALL]
3 Gitaxian Probe [NPH]
2 True-Name Nemisis
4 Myth Realized [DTK]
3 Sensei's Divining Top [CHK]
4 Standstill [ODY]
1 Supreme Verdict [RTR]
4 Swords to Plowshares [ICE]
Sideboard (15)
1 Bitterblossom [MOR]
3 Enlightened Tutor [6ED]
1 Ethersworn Canonist [MMA]
2 Flusterstorm [CMD]
1 Humility [TMP]
1 Karakas [LEG]
1 Rest in Peace [RTR]
1 Vendilion Clique [MOR]
2 Zealous Persecution [ARB]
2 Containment Priest
I like the list from the IQ. SounterTop and Mentor are like a match made in heaven and the Confidants make sure you don't run out of steam.
I will try this next week:
Land (19)
1x Bayou
4x Flooded Strand
2x Island
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Plains
4x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
1x Tropical Island
2x Tundra
2x Underground Sea
Artifact (4)
4x Sensei's Divining Top
Instant (12)
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
4x Swords to Plowshares
Sorcery (11)
3x Cabal Therapy
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Ponder
Creature (11)
3x Dark Confidant
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Monastery Mentor
Enchantment (3)
3x Counterbalance
Sideboard (15)
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Cabal Therapy
1x Containment Priest
1x Engineered Plague
2x Flusterstorm
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2x Meddling Mage
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Sylvan Library
1x Zealous Persecution
This list is a cross between Deathblade without the clunk that is Stoneforge Mystic and Batterskull and Miracles without the awkwardness that are miracles in hand. While it has a lot of good sides it also has an atrocious manabase.
I would like to add one Jace to the maindeck as a draw spell, as well as a way to win games, but 19 lands and tight slots won't let me.
I am very open to suggestions.
Last edited by hofzge; 10-30-2015 at 08:37 AM.
Chalice on 1
Team UltraPro is playing EsperMentor at GP: http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/c...ors-2015-11-07
Painful Truths, DRS + Tropical Island main, Abrupt Decay from the board
You can see deck in action here: http://www.twitch.tv/channelfireball/v/24505351 (around 6:03:40)
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