[COMM] Commander 2015 Spoiler Discussion

[PirateKing]

It'd be cool if experience was something that never left the game, so if a player caused another player to leave the game, they gained all the dead player's experience. So when you're down to the last two players, each has access to some truly overpowered spells.

[TsumiBand]

It'd be cool if experience was something that never left the game, so if a player caused another player to leave the game, they gained all the dead player's experience. So when you're down to the last two players, each has access to some truly overpowered spells.

Good call, I'm sure they'll print something with some ability like "when this deals damage to a player, if that player would lose the game, you gain experience counters equal to the number of experience counters they have" or some jank. Heh. Whether or not they give you half the money in their wallet is probably best left as a house rule.

I expect that if "experience matters" is a mechanic there will be a nonzero number of support spells and creatures that do more if you have more experience. I can dig it

[Lemnear]

I would bet an Arm that the conditions to gain these "experience counters" are as dumb (do damage, cast creatures, cast uncompeditive expensive spells) as the spells that profit from it (in before: Mythic Hydra which gets +1/+1 counter for each experience counter).

Honestly gentlemen, this is simply just YET ANOTHER FUCKING KICKER VARIANT!

[iamajellydonut]

Good call, I'm sure they'll print something with some ability like "when this deals damage to a player, if that player would lose the game, you gain experience counters equal to the number of experience counters they have" or some jank. Heh. Whether or not they give you half the money in their wallet is probably best left as a house rule.

I expect that if "experience matters" is a mechanic there will be a nonzero number of support spells and creatures that do more if you have more experience. I can dig it

I mean, considering the condition here is "cast a creature spell with CMC >4", I can't imagine that the support for experience will be too extensive.

[Ace/Homebrew]

There are only 55 new cards...
I'm guessing there will be 5 cards that have 'experience' printed on them, all will be creatures and one of them is Kalemne.
I'm using history as my reasoning. Last set the "Planeswalker can be your Commander" wording was on 5 cards. Before that the "(effect) for as much as you spend on your Commander" was printed on 3 cards (4 if you count Opal Palace).



@Lemnear: How is this a Kicker variant?
Kicker and its variations are: "as you cast this spell, pay (additional cost) and (added benefit)".

Experience counters appear to work in this manner: "fulfill (requirement) and you get an experience counter". Then the creature gets modified in some manner based on how many times it saw you fulfill (requirement).
This seems closer to the ascension, quest, and expedition cards in the original Zendikar (Pyromancer Ascension, Quest for the Holy Relic, Khalni Heart Expedition) where WotC wants you to accomplish a task (instead of pay a cost) to get the benefit.




Also a reminder to all... Expectations for legacy playable cards should be extremely low! If we get 2 cards that would be a lot.

From Commander 2014 we got:
Containment Priest
Daretti, Scrap Savant
Titania, Protector of Argoth
Dualcaster Mage

And calling 3 of those Legacy cards is really stretching the truth.

Commander 2013 gave us:
Unexpectedly Absent
True-Name Nemesis
Toxic Deluge
Sudden Demise

And only 2/3 of those really see any play at all.

[jrsthethird]

Also original Commander gave us

Flusterstorm
Scavenging Ooze
Chaos Warp

Anything else new and remotely playable in the first one?

[tescrin]

Are you trying to lure me into the basement of an abandoned house so you can murder me for money to purchase drugs?

Are... are you into that?

You are both genuinely terrible at this...

lol I'm hoping this was a joke that was just executed with perfect sarcasm. Either way; it's that way in my brain mind.

[Lemnear]

How can you deny that this is a kicker-variant? Your additional investment is simply playing cards that add experience counters which isn't far off the principle of bloodrush which had it's kicker-effect tacked on damaging the opponent before casting the creature.

It doesn't matter if you pay additional mana or have to fulfil special conditions, the essence of the Kicker-cards is to grant additional buffs to the cards usual effect under given circumstances. Unfortunately most are executed in a way to benefit you if you are already in a favorable Position rather than the opposite aka to turn the tides of a game (like the awesome Fateful Hour)

[Ace/Homebrew]

How can you deny that this is a kicker-variant? Your additional investment is simply playing cards that add experience counters which isn't far off the principle of bloodrush which had it's kicker-effect tacked on damaging the opponent before casting the creature.

What?

Let's look at bloodrush.
Ghor-Clan Rampager
Bloodrush - , Discard ~: Target attacking creature gets +4/+4 and gains trample until end of turn.

The bloodrush ability basically turns a creature into a Giant Growth-style pump spell. That is nothing like a kicker variant...
Again, Kicker tacks an extra cost onto a spell to add additional benefits.

Here's some actual Kicker knock-offs:
Awaken
Entwine
Bestow
Buyback
Exploit
Extort
Overload
Replicate

Bloodrush is more like the Command cycles where you choose a mode. You either choose the 'creature' mode for or the 'pump spell' mode for .

The single example we have involving experience counters is nothing like Kicker. You get the bonus by playing OTHER spells... AFTER Kalemne has already resolved. Kicker's whole thing is that it is an add-on option to the spell being kicked. The additional costs have to be paid as the spell is being played (see any of the keyword examples I provided above).

[TsumiBand]

The kicker comparison makes no sense whatsoever at all ever in the history of all things

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Awaken
Entwine
Bestow
Buyback
Exploit
Extort
Overload
Replicate

Sounds like some hardcore deaththrash lyrics.

"Awaken! The fury of the beast!
Entwine! The one that gives you feast!
Bestow! The thrill of kill you need!
Buyback! The glory of your deed!
Exploit! The weakness of the foe!
Extort! In darkness you're no more.
Overload and slay what makes you bleed!
Replicate! The creed of dying breed!
Aaarrrgh!"




Also, I haven't checked the contents of Commander 2015 at all, so may I join the discussion with an opinion on how this new box will completely disbalance Legacy and/or bring nothing new to it?

[TsumiBand]

How can you deny that this is a kicker-variant? Your additional investment is simply playing cards

If playing cards to gain an effect in conjunction with your other cards is "a Kicker variant" then this entire game is just secretly the Kicker mechanic. I think you're trying a little too hard to see a parallel where none exists.

[Cire]

If we're making crazy analogies its more like a narrower but more permanent prowess type effect that uses counters that accumulate on players like poison - a.k.a. Kicker.

[Lemnear]

Confused Bloodrush and Bloodthirst. My bad here.

I stand my point in the bigger context: Cardeffect + additional effect, if condition x is met or additional cost y is payed is nothing else than kicker for me

[TsumiBand]

Confused Bloodrush and Bloodthirst. My bad here.

I stand my point in the bigger context: Cardeffect + additional effect, if condition x is met or additional cost y is payed is nothing else than kicker for me

So Goblin Warchief gives your Goblins "Kicker -- -1: If you paid the kicker cost, this creature has haste"?

[iatee]

IMO the worst thing about having endless kicker variants is that they make the mtg rulebook longer and longer without adding much to the gameplay. Occasionally the differences between the kicker mechanics actually ends up mattering (eg you can't overload a spell you flashbacked w/ snapcaster but you can kicker it) - and it's annoying / not-intuitive because all kicker mechanics 'feel' the same.

[iatee]

I don't think anyone would be that bothered if wizards just made kicker evergreen and just used it all the time. Kinda think they overrate how much people care about 'new mechanics' vs. having a well made set for standard/limited + powerful cards for older formats.

[Cire]

I stand my point in the bigger context: Cardeffect + additional effect, if condition x is met or additional cost y is payed is nothing else than kicker for me

So Blood Tyrant has kicker now

[Ace/Homebrew]

So Goblin Warchief gives your Goblins "Kicker -- -1: If you paid the kicker cost, this creature has haste"?

Now I get it!

So Infernal Tutor is: Kicker -- If you have no cards in your hand, search for a card and shuffle your library.

And Glimpse of Nature is: Kicker -- Play a creature, draw a card.

Wow, everything really is just a form of Kicker.

[TsumiBand]