Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 204

Thread: [Deck/Primer] Countersliver (MeatHooks)

  1. #21
    Samurais suck
    Volt's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2006
    Location

    Portland, OR
    Posts

    1,895

    Re: [Deck/Primer] Countersliver (MeatHooks)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralf View Post
    Your list is running 3 !

    Chalice is there because with FOW we have 7 cards that matter against fast combo G1 (which could be seen as "enough" protection for a G1 or at least not completely naked should you face a nasty T1/T2 combo deck).
    Against fair decks chalice is just a mean to slow down the opponent's game's pace (At least enough for us to be able to build a lethal board).
    It can also be seen as virtual cards' advantage in a deck where we don't pack any draw spells.

    The main issue with Slivers is that we are (like Merfolk) a slow aggro deck. It takes time to build a board.
    Blanking on average 2 cards in an opponent's hand is virtually 2 cards advantage / 2 more turns to kill your opponent.

    If you take a sample hand of Slivers, you don't get to the lethal point until T6 /T7. Chalice gives us at least 2 more turns (and straight kill our opponent sometimes; that's what you get for playing unfair, niark)
    I ran 3 at that tournament, yes. I was copycatting. It was the first time I had even tried Chalices in the deck, honestly. But now I'm questioning the number. My list in the primer contains 4 Chalices, fwiw.
    Team Info-Ninja: Shhh... We don't exist.

  2. #22
    Bear Cub > Tarmogoyf

    Join Date

    Jul 2007
    Posts

    759

    Re: [Deck/Primer] Countersliver (MeatHooks)

    My main points were whether it would take the place of a more useful card, and how likely it is that you draw multiples without wanting to, especially early. 4 might be right, especially if those points don't apply.
    Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.

  3. #23
    Samurais suck
    Volt's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2006
    Location

    Portland, OR
    Posts

    1,895

    Re: [Deck/Primer] Countersliver (MeatHooks)

    Quote Originally Posted by kirbysdl View Post
    My main points were whether it would take the place of a more useful card, and how likely it is that you draw multiples without wanting to, especially early. 4 might be right, especially if those points don't apply.
    Well, as long we're stealing ideas from Merfolk, I don't think a maindeck Echoing Truth would be terrible.
    Team Info-Ninja: Shhh... We don't exist.

  4. #24
    Bear Cub > Tarmogoyf

    Join Date

    Jul 2007
    Posts

    759

    Re: [Deck/Primer] Countersliver (MeatHooks)

    It makes me sad that the deck could benefit so much from Sylvan Library but can't easily support it. Another example of this increasingly being a multicolor deck that can't capitalize on being multicolor.

    P.S. I wonder why we didn't run Libraries back in the day.
    Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.

  5. #25

    Re: [Deck/Primer] Countersliver (MeatHooks)

    I'm playing 3 Syphon 2 Libraries up to now.

    One Island and one forest allows us to play many tricks if every other land can provide you 1 colorless..

    so:
    4 Mutavault
    4 Sliver Hive
    4 Cavern of Souls
    1 Island
    1 Forest
    4 Misty Rainforest
    3 Tropical Island

    I fix mana with 2 Manaweft MD (they also help a lot to gain advantage of Hive) and only Crystalline/Hibernation/Syphon as non U/G creatures.

  6. #26
    Member

    Join Date

    Mar 2015
    Location

    Paris
    Posts

    37

    Re: [Deck/Primer] Countersliver (MeatHooks)

    @Volt: why wouldn't we replace Sylvan Library with Sensei Divining Top? Synergy with COTV is bad but for the rest it is colorless and does the job

    @Ralf: I'm still working on the SB why did you choose Thorn of Amethist over Thalia?

    I was thinking of:

    The core
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    3 Harmonic Sliver
    2 Submerge

    Then to be discussed:
    2 Meddling Mage (hard to cast?)
    2 Containment Priest
    3 Rest in Peace (or Faerie Macabre?)
    2 Vapor Snag or 2 Echoing Truth

    For the rest I run Khamul's deck - 1 Phantasmal Image + 1 Echoing Truth and find it pretty solid.

  7. #27
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2013
    Location

    Paris, France
    Posts

    360

    Re: [Deck/Primer] Countersliver (MeatHooks)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultrab77 View Post
    @Volt: why wouldn't we replace Sylvan Library with Sensei Divining Top? Synergy with COTV is bad but for the rest it is colorless and does the job

    @Ralf: I'm still working on the SB why did you choose Thorn of Amethist over Thalia?

    For the rest I run Khamul's deck - 1 Phantasmal Image + 1 Echoing Truth and find it pretty solid.

    @ Thread:

    To be honest, without card selection, I don't think 2x Sylvan Library are useful.
    It dilutes your core strategy and would require 4 slots to be effective.
    SL tends to be slow as well and nonbo with Hibernation Sliver and you would need a lot of shuffling effect to take full advantage of it (4/5 fetchs is not what I would call a lot ...)

    From my point of view 4 hibernation + 4 Crystalline + 3 COTV are already plenty card advantage in a certain form (virtual card advantage if you prefer) and the deck does not need more of them.

    @ Ultrab77

    I was playing 2 Thorns + 1 Thalia. This has evolved into 2 Thorns + 1 COTV.
    I think we are all testing different SB config. Thalia may make a come back but I still have to assess the general sideboard tables before making any other move.

    Yet, I'm a proponent for the heavy oriented hatebear sideboard strat.

    Here are a few remarks:

    - Submerge is a card for Tempo deck. Without Daze, Pierce, Wasteland, I think our Sliver version is no longer a tempo deck. Don't get me wrong, this does not mean that the card is bad or that the card won't win you any game but alas, the card is too narrow and I'm not afraid of green creature or deck playing "forest". I want something that has a broader application than Submerge.

    - Playing 1 CMC spell in a COTV build is asking for troubles. As we have basically no card selection, drawing those cards in the wrong order can screw you big time.

    - I don't think Harmonic Sliver deserves 3 slots anymore. With 2 truth SB, 2 Harmonic seems enough (stone decks are on a low trend).

  8. #28
    Samurais suck
    Volt's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2006
    Location

    Portland, OR
    Posts

    1,895

    Re: [Deck/Primer] Countersliver (MeatHooks)

    SDT: Aside from being a non-bo with Chalice, which is probably reason enough not to play it, it's not something we can really get on-line until several turns into the game. We want to spend the early turns tapping out to play slivers, not spending mana to twiddle a top. Also, most of the lists we've been discussing more recently are only running ~4 fetchlands, which diminishes SDT's utility.

    Sylvan Library would be better, because it dodges Chalice, and no further investment is required beyond the initial 2cc. But as previously noted, our manabase just isn't very good at producing colored mana for non-creature spells. The focus has been on streamlining the deck to simply churn out slivers.

    I am kind of curious about Poron's list, which has apparently been tailored to support Sylvan Library, and eschews Sinew Sliver. I'm guessing it looks like this?

    4 Crystalline Sliver
    4 Hibernation Sliver
    4 Predatory Sliver
    4 Muscle Sliver
    2 Manaweft Sliver
    4 Galerider Sliver
    3 Syphon Sliver
    1 Winged Sliver

    4 Aether Vial
    4 Force of Will
    2 Sylvan Library
    3 Chalice of the Void (???)

    4 Mutavault
    4 Sliver Hive
    4 Cavern of Souls
    1 Island
    1 Forest
    4 Misty Rainforest
    3 Tropical Island
    Team Info-Ninja: Shhh... We don't exist.

  9. #29
    Samurais suck
    Volt's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2006
    Location

    Portland, OR
    Posts

    1,895

    Re: [Deck/Primer] Countersliver (MeatHooks)

    Heh. I only just noticed Ralf's ninja post.

    I'm also a proponent of the hate-bear strategy. Here's what I came up with when I was tinkering with my sideboard last night.

    2 Containment Priest
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 Harmonic Sliver
    2 Echoing Truth
    2 Phyrexian Revoker
    2 Rest in Peace
    2 Submerge
    1 Darkheart Sliver

    The Revokers might become Meddling Mages or Thalias. I'm also going to reconsider the Submerges.

    Rest in Peace is fantastic, but might need to be Faerie Macabres, as Ralf advocates, just because of color issues. Although I should mention that at the last tournament I played, I brought in Faerie Macabres against Tin Fins, and the guy ended up Probing me, saw a Macabre in my hand, then dropped Pithing Needle on it. They can also just get Therapied out of your hand right before the guy's about to go off. So, I dunno.
    Team Info-Ninja: Shhh... We don't exist.

  10. #30
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2013
    Location

    Paris, France
    Posts

    360

    Re: [Deck/Primer] Countersliver (MeatHooks)

    Quote Originally Posted by Volt View Post
    Rest in Peace is fantastic, but might need to be Faerie Macabres, as Ralf advocates, just because of color issues. Although I should mention that at the last tournament I played, I brought in Faerie Macabres against Tin Fins, and the guy ended up Probing me, saw a Macabre in my hand, then dropped Pithing Needle on it. They can also just get Therapied out of your hand right before the guy's about to go off. So, I dunno.
    RIP is the better card.

    But whether RIP is better than Faerie has to be assessed.

    As a matter of fact, I'm not sure we really need to shut off graveyard strategy entirely.
    Punish ? well we have Crystalline + Hibernation + Lords.
    Dredge ? RIP > Faerie maybe or not ? I feel I can just race. We can also fow the dread return and block to death to remove bridges. Faerie seems to be sufficient and faster.
    Rea ? RIP might be too slow, can be dazed, spell pierced, FOWed... Faerie seems to be better (faster and uncounterable) here.
    Loam ? Yeah here RIP is better. It shut off completely the loam engine until removed.

    So, all in all, it is your call to make. But in a slow deck (by design), having an instant gravehate (coupled with other slower hate cards) against very fast & unfair deck is an overall better call (IMHO).

    PS: COTV is another hate to graveyard strategy usually. It should either wreck your opponent or give you enough time to draw a counterpiece (should it be a Priest, a Faerie, a MM etc...)

  11. #31
    Samurais suck
    Volt's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2006
    Location

    Portland, OR
    Posts

    1,895

    Re: [Deck/Primer] Countersliver (MeatHooks)

    That all makes sense. In a vacuum, I think I would prefer RiP overall. Unfortunately, my current Chalice Slivers list only has 6 lands that fetch or tap for white mana that can be used for non-creature spells. So, that probably rules RiP out.
    Team Info-Ninja: Shhh... We don't exist.

  12. #32
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2013
    Location

    Paris, France
    Posts

    360

    Re: [Deck/Primer] Countersliver (MeatHooks)

    Quote Originally Posted by Volt View Post
    That all makes sense. In a vacuum, I think I would prefer RiP overall. Unfortunately, my current Chalice Slivers list only has 6 lands that fetch or tap for white mana that can be used for non-creature spells. So, that probably rules RiP out.
    Just try out another manabase.
    Mine is not perfect, yet but with some help, who knows...
    Building a rainbow manabase is hard but higher the risk, higher the reward.
    Once the coast is clear I can tell you it will be very fun & maybe more powerful than the blue one:
    - turning off stifle is good
    - no islandwalk
    - not impacted by hate cards that usually deal with hatebears (massacre for example)

    You have here 3 good reasons (that I can think of right now and maybe a fourth one if we succeed to make a rainbow manabase that gives us an overall better chance to play our colored slivers/hatebear) to go for a non fetchable blue manabase.

    Here are the only cons I can think of right now:
    - a bit more floods
    - not having a basic in the deck (Burn/Blood Moon/the early waste that wrecks a hand you should not have kept anyway...)

    Just some food for thoughts.

  13. #33
    Member

    Join Date

    Mar 2015
    Location

    Paris
    Posts

    37

    Re: [Deck/Primer] Countersliver (MeatHooks)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralf View Post
    RIP is the better card.

    But whether RIP is better than Faerie has to be assessed.

    As a matter of fact, I'm not sure we really need to shut off graveyard strategy entirely.
    Punish ? well we have Crystalline + Hibernation + Lords.
    Dredge ? RIP > Faerie maybe or not ? I feel I can just race. We can also fow the dread return and block to death to remove bridges. Faerie seems to be sufficient and faster.
    Rea ? RIP might be too slow, can be dazed, spell pierced, FOWed... Faerie seems to be better (faster and uncounterable) here.
    Loam ? Yeah here RIP is better. It shut off completely the loam engine until removed.

    So, all in all, it is your call to make. But in a slow deck (by design), having an instant gravehate (coupled with other slower hate cards) against very fast & unfair deck is an overall better call (IMHO).

    PS: COTV is another hate to graveyard strategy usually. It should either wreck your opponent or give you enough time to draw a counterpiece (should it be a Priest, a Faerie, a MM etc...)
    That makes sense. For BUG and Threshold decks I think RIP would be better though and it represents more than 10% of the meta (dixit mtgtop8) in comparison with rea + dredge (together 3%).

    I won't be able to test it much before January for I will be travelling a lot.

  14. #34
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2013
    Location

    Paris, France
    Posts

    360

    Re: [Deck/Primer] Countersliver (MeatHooks)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultrab77 View Post
    That makes sense. For BUG and Threshold decks I think RIP would be better though and it represents more than 10% of the meta (dixit mtgtop8) in comparison with rea + dredge (together 3%).

    I won't be able to test it much before January for I will be travelling a lot.
    Dunno if RIP is better.(But are we really afraid of BUG and RUG ?)

    A countered RIP grows Tarmo and they will keep their pierce against us (vial + cotv). The likelyhood to resolve that spell is...hmmm.

    Anyway, this has to be tested as I am willing to give up a % win rate against these decks (if we are ahead already) to gain a few % against decks we are struggling hard if you know what I mean.

    PS: Faerie also enables combat tricks. I like combat tricks !
    PS 2: Oh boyzz I forgot no fetch= less food for DRS, btw...

  15. #35
    Samurais suck
    Volt's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2006
    Location

    Portland, OR
    Posts

    1,895

    Re: [Deck/Primer] Countersliver (MeatHooks)

    Even if you convert all 9 of the flexible land slots (after 4 mutavault, 4 cavern, 4 hive) to undiscovered paradises, reflecting pools, horizon canopies, mana confluences and whatnot, that's still only 9 lands that will be able to produce the white mana to cast something like RiP. If I did the math right, you have about a 64% chance of drawing 1 of those 9 lands, plus at least 1 more land of any sort, in your first 8 cards. That doesn't seem good enough to me. So, I think we have to make do with bears, artifacts, and free spells.

    That said, I'm going to work on reducing my reliance on fetches and islands.
    Team Info-Ninja: Shhh... We don't exist.

  16. #36
    Member

    Join Date

    Aug 2012
    Location

    Vienna, Austria
    Posts

    19

    Re: [Deck/Primer] Countersliver (MeatHooks)

    Just to report back from Nebraska's War, I got annihilated at the Main Event. Worse, every loss I had was due to a misplay - mostly by fetching for the wrong Lands.

    I've tweaked my List a bit more and came to this one:

    4 Galerider Sliver
    4 Hibernation Sliver
    4 Crystalline Sliver
    4 Sinew Sliver
    4 Predatory Sliver
    2 Muscle Sliver
    2 Darkheart Sliver
    1 Winged Sliver
    3 Phantasmal Image

    4 Force of Will
    4 AEther Vial
    3 Chalice of the Void

    4 Mutavault
    4 Cavern of Souls
    3 Sliver Hive
    3 Flooded Strand
    2 Polluted Delta
    1 Tundra
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Underground Sea
    1 Scrubland
    1 Island

    SB: 2 Harmonic Sliver
    SB: 2 Meddling Mage
    SB: 2 Rest in Peace
    SB: 2 Submerge
    SB: 2 Echoing Truth
    SB: 2 Flusterstorm
    SB: 1 Chalice of the Void
    SB: 1 Pithing Needle
    SB: 1 Containment Priest

    Darkheart Sliver is a flex Slot. I'll try testing 22 Lands by replacing those by 1 Winged 1 Fetch anytime soon. The main reason for Darkheart is Storm, because at 2 Mana it's faster than Syphon and reads pretty much like "every Sliver on board takes you one Storm count more to win". I like that.

    I don't like the lone Echoing Truth Main, because I'm not a fan of random 1-ofs in a Deck without cantrips. I even don't play it maindeck in Merfolk.
    Chalice is only at a 3-of because Slivers are not a Deck that can slam a Chalice turn 1 on the play. And there are enough Decks in the Format that aren't affected enough by a Chalice @1 that comes down Turn 2 otd, imo. Btw, as kirby pointed out, Chalice fights with Crystalline and Hibernation over the "blanks Removal" Slot. I'd rather have some lifegain or the 5th flying Sliver over the 4th Chalice main.

    The biggest change I've made is to my Manabase. I really wann every Sliver to be castable with fetchable Land + Sliver land (Hive or Cavern; Darkheart is not included in the current equation because he's flex, and as a 2-of not that important), and I want to have a Dual configuration so that I can have all 4 colors in 2 Duals. So Scrubland gets the Slot over Savannah, because it can cast both Hibernation and Crystalline with the help of a Sliver Land.
    I'm not playing 4 Hives because I can't realistically expect to be able to activate the Token ability, and because I want more of color-producing Lands for my Sideboard.


    As we've already got a Sideboard discussion started, I jump right in:

    I don't agree with a Board mostly composed of Hatebears against Storm. The reason is simple: Blue count. When I look at my preboard Blue count, I sit on a healthy 20, which is just enough to support Force.
    But what do I board out against Storm? The worst cards I have against Storm are the Crystallines and the Winged Sliver, because they have the least threat factor on their own. But both are Blue, so if I want to stay at a healthy Blue count, I have to bring in Blue cards. Meddling Mage is the only Blue Hatebear, so it gets Slot one, but it's hard to cast, so not more than two. Flusterstorm is an overall good card, cheap Counterspell that doesn't need that much open Mana (I had Negate in an erlier List, but it was always a Pain to hold up the two Mana) and works well with Chalice.
    And no, I don't side out my Vials. They speed the clock up tremendously, even if they can be a bad Topdeck.

    For Submerge, it's not supposed to be a "Tempo card" in the way that it only works with Wasteland and Daze. It's supposed to be a cheap answer to Marit Lage and, to a lesser extent, Tarmogoyf. That said, I'm thinking of replacing the Submerges with Path to Exile, but I'm hesitant because Path's a nonbo with Chalice.

    Faerie Macabre over RiP seems like a fair point, but I like to keep the Loam Decks completely shut off. Lands and Aggro Loam have enough outs to Chalice (which just breaks them on two), and in these MUs I see RiP as additional Chalice with the benefits of turning the recursion off completely, and being cheaper to cast.
    Last edited by Khamul; 12-09-2015 at 07:50 AM. Reason: Forgot two Cards in SB

  17. #37
    Member

    Join Date

    Mar 2015
    Location

    Paris
    Posts

    37

    Re: [Deck/Primer] Countersliver (MeatHooks)

    @Khamul: is that the list you took to the tournament or is that the list you would build after experience? I notice no GY hate in your SB.

    What were your matches and how did you felt MD and after SB?

    How would you feel with the rainbow lands vs fetch + dual combination? (Ziggurat, reflecting pool, City of Brass etc.)

  18. #38
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2013
    Location

    Paris, France
    Posts

    360

    Re: [Deck/Primer] Countersliver (MeatHooks)

    Quote Originally Posted by Khamul View Post
    As we've already got a Sideboard discussion started, I jump right in:

    I don't agree with a Board mostly composed of Hatebears against Storm. The reason is simple: Blue count. When I look at my preboard Blue count, I sit on a healthy 20, which is just enough to support Force.
    But what do I board out against Storm? The worst cards I have against Storm are the Crystallines and the Winged Sliver, because they have the least threat factor on their own. But both are Blue, so if I want to stay at a healthy Blue count, I have to bring in Blue cards. Meddling Mage is the only Blue Hatebear, so it gets Slot one, but it's hard to cast, so not more than two. Flusterstorm is an overall good card, cheap Counterspell that doesn't need that much open Mana (I had Negate in an erlier List, but it was always a Pain to hold up the two Mana) and works well with Chalice.
    And no, I don't side out my Vials. They speed the clock up tremendously, even if they can be a bad Topdeck.

    For Submerge, it's not supposed to be a "Tempo card" in the way that it only works with Wasteland and Daze. It's supposed to be a cheap answer to Marit Lage and, to a lesser extent, Tarmogoyf. That said, I'm thinking of replacing the Submerges with Path to Exile, but I'm hesitant because Path's a nonbo with Chalice.

    Faerie Macabre over RiP seems like a fair point, but I like to keep the Loam Decks completely shut off. Lands and Aggro Loam have enough outs to Chalice (which just breaks them on two), and in these MUs I see RiP as additional Chalice with the benefits of turning the recursion off completely, and being cheaper to cast.
    Interesting point of view.
    Here is my sideboarding strategy against Storm:

    -4 Vial
    -2 Muscle Sliver
    -2 Predatory
    -1 Winged Sliver
    -2 Crystalline Sliver

    2 Canonist
    1 Chalice of the Void
    2 Meddling Mage
    2 Thorn of Amethyst
    2 Echoing Truth
    2 Faerie Macabre

    I'm keeping my blue count @ a healthy 21.
    Here are a few remarks:

    1) I like to keep Syphon in as:
    - It is another out to a T2 "Empty the Warrens" (I did it once and was pretty happy to race 12 Gob)
    - It messes up with Tendrils if you get to resolve it

    2) I don't keep Vial in (might be a mistake but I find it very slow and does not provide any kind of acceleration until T3):
    - Bad draw when you have chalice @ 1, sucks in multiple
    - Save Echoing Truth and Muta's activation, I'm playing a full tap strategy. And unlike D&T we don't have anything to do with our lands (save Muta's activation)

  19. #39
    Member

    Join Date

    Aug 2012
    Location

    Vienna, Austria
    Posts

    19

    Re: [Deck/Primer] Countersliver (MeatHooks)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultrab77 View Post
    @Khamul: is that the list you took to the tournament or is that the list you would build after experience? I notice no GY hate in your SB.
    Oh, I forgot to list the 2 RiP in my current Sideboard ^^ Added them.
    The List I played at the Side event was posted by me on page 1. At the main event, the only difference between that list and my list now was -1 Scrubland +1 Tundra. And I had some awkward fetch situations.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ultrab77 View Post
    What were your matches and how did you felt MD and after SB?
    So, my Matches on Saturday were:

    Aggro Loam: 2-1
    Boarded:
    otp: -4 Force, -3 Image; +2 RiP, +1 Needle, +2 Harmonic, +2 Submerge
    otd: -2 Force, -3 Image; +2 RiP, +1 Needle, +2 Submerge
    I like RiP in that MU, and an early Harmonic shuts off the acceleration through Mox as well as Sylvan Library. But as I'm very reliant on my own hate Artifacts and Enchantments, I don't board in Harmonic otd - here I leave in 2 Forces to be able to deal with an early Confidant or Library. Not going up to the playset of Chalice because 4 Mana is tough to reach, and until then you might just have drawn one of the three Chalices or a RiP.
    Crystalline and Hibernation are, obviously, your best cards. Especially Hibernation, since the lifeloss is only half as severe against a Deck playing Grove of the Burnwillows.

    Grixis Delver: 2-0
    Boarded:
    -2 Force; +1 Needle, +1 Chalice
    Obvious choices, easy Matchup. I just have to avoid Wastelands, that's all.

    Miracles: 2-0
    Boarded:
    -4 Force; +1 Needle, +1 Chalice, +2 Negate
    (maybe leaving 2 Forces in in the new list, boarding out 2 Force 2 Darkheart for 1 Chalice 1 Needle 2 Meddling Mage)
    Miracles just loathes Chalice @1, Crystalline and Hibernation make their removal seem silly. Very good Matchup. Mentor could be a problem, but you should be faster.

    Sneak & Show: 2-1
    Boarded:
    otp: -4 Crystalline, -1 Winged, -1 Chalice; +2 Fluster, +2 Negate, +1 Needle, +1 Containment Priest
    otd: -4 Crystalline, -1 Winged, -3 Chalice; +2 Fluster, +2 Negate, +1 Needle, +1 Containment Priest, +2 Harmonic
    (Negate = Meddling Mage in the new List)
    On the play, Chalice can at least hit some cantrips, but it's not that good against Sneak & Show. On the Draw, it's just horrible, so it goes out for Harmonic, which can at least prevent awkward Sneak Attack situations and destroy Blood Moon. Phantasmal Image is the best card, and just naming a Cavern on Human can be an incredibly great Bluff. Don't scoop to Griselbrand, because a flying blocker + bounce (hibernation) or sac (Darkheart) prevents the lifegain and therefore the card draw. Also good on the attack when he has to block with Griselbrand.

    Storm: 0-2
    Boarded:
    -4 Crystalline, -2 Syphon, -1 Winged; +2 Fluster, +2 Negate, +1 Chalice, +2 RiP
    (Negate = Meddling Mage in the new list, and Darkheart stays in the deck in the new list. Boarding out Life Gain was a mistake, even if Syphon is on the slower side. Maybe -1 Sinew, -1 Predatory instead)
    The blue count really goes down in this list, but Hibernation can at least bounce itself or an Image to pitch for Force. I can still have Plan B to just go Aggro.

    Merfolk: 1-2
    Boarded:
    -1 Force, -3 Chalice; +2 Echoing Truth, +2 Harmonic
    One of the Matchups where I'd like to have some hard removal in the board. Maybe really Path over Submerge? Force can still counter their Vials or the Jitte, Chalice is worse. Harmonic deals with their Vials. Can be a bit awkward, but usually destroys theirs first or comes in as the last creature, so you don't care anymore.
    With the new list having a non-Island land I can fetch into, I feel much more like being 50:50, speak: The one who goes first wins, against Merfolk. When you only have Island-based Lands to fetch into, Merfolk is favoured because they just have more evasion than you have.

    Storm again: 2-1


    On Sunday I played against:

    Shardless BUG: 0-2
    Boarded:
    -2 Force, -1 Chalice, -1 Image; +2 RiP, +2 Submerge
    (not sure if Meddling Mage over the other 2 Chalices would have been correct, maybe yes)
    Chalice on 1 is meh, so I want it on 0 to stop Vision, all other CMCs are too diversified to really hit something. If they haven't cast any Goyfs yet, I would even try one @2.
    Lost Game 1 to the nuts start of opponent otp Deathrite into Liliana into Jace.
    Game 2 I fetched into Basic Island turn 1, resulting in me screwing myself as I only had fetchable lands. First time this should happen x(

    Aggro Loam: 1-2
    Lost game 1 to Punishing Fire, never saw a Crystalline of Hibernation. Won Game 2 and lost Game 3, again due to fetching to Island Turn 1 (feared Turn 2 Wasteland + anything too much, as I had no Turn 1 play). After my Sliver Hive got wasted, I had Tundra and Island in play, staring at a Liliana with Predatory, Hibernation and Darkheart in Hand, unable to cast any of these. Derp mode from my side x(

    Grixis Delver: 0-2
    Lost game 1 due to me being impatient and trading an attacking Crystalline with a Pyromancer where I could have just waited until I drew something. Didn't want him to get too many Pyromancer tokens, but waiting would have been the better option.
    Game 2 I lost due to fetching to turn 1 Island again, this Time I had Island, U-Sea after one wasteland of my opponent on Cavern, not being able to play any of the Sinew, Predatory and Darkheart in my hand while my lone Crystalline Sliver was no match for Delver and Gurmag Angler.

    After being 0-3 I dropped and spent a fine day on the beach.
    Those derp fetches on Island showed me that I should be more brave by fetching on Duals if I have a 3rd Land in Hand, and that I should play a non-Island dual, to be able to have all colors just by fetching Duals.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ultrab77 View Post
    How would you feel with the rainbow lands vs fetch + dual combination? (Ziggurat, reflecting pool, City of Brass etc.)
    I really don't like Ziggurat, because it can't even pay for Mutavault. And I'm terribly afraid of situations where I draw Mutavault + Pool. The best solution might actually be playing 4 City of Brass and 4 Mana confluence, but the life loss is really severe against Delver Decks. I haven't tested the Rainbow land approach, and it's definitely one of the next things I'll try out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ralf View Post
    Interesting point of view.
    Here is my sideboarding strategy against Storm:

    -4 Vial
    -2 Muscle Sliver
    -2 Predatory
    -1 Winged Sliver
    -2 Crystalline Sliver

    2 Canonist
    1 Chalice of the Void
    2 Meddling Mage
    2 Thorn of Amethyst
    2 Echoing Truth
    2 Faerie Macabre

    I'm keeping my blue count @ a healthy 21.
    Here are a few remarks:

    1) I like to keep Syphon in as:
    - It is another out to a T2 "Empty the Warrens" (I did it once and was pretty happy to race 12 Gob)
    - It messes up with Tendrils if you get to resolve it

    2) I don't keep Vial in (might be a mistake but I find it very slow and does not provide any kind of acceleration until T3):
    - Bad draw when you have chalice @ 1, sucks in multiple
    - Save Echoing Truth and Muta's activation, I'm playing a full tap strategy. And unlike D&T we don't have anything to do with our lands (save Muta's activation)
    Life Link is pretty relevant against Storm, that's why I'm currently even at Darkheart over Syphon (which can change soon, btw. But I feel more comfortable with Darkheart in the unfair matches) I boarded Syphon out because it's the slowest Sliver, and I'm unsure about boarding out Lords. Now I see that it's a mistake boarding out lifelink and agree with you that it should stay in.
    For boarding out lords, you really kill their Ad Nauseam with fast Aggro starts, but I can see no other slots, other than maybe 1 Galerider.
    I for my part don't like Echoing Truth against Storm at all, because it only works against Empty, a kill condition I'm naturally resilient against as I'm a swarm deck. Xanthid Swarm is annoying, but Truth just buys you a turn against it. Laying a Lord instead, making you faster might even provoke a block, if not outright kill the storm player. And with more than half of my hate being sorcery speed, Xanthid Swarm is not as backbreaking as it is for other decks.
    I usually just go for a kill as fast as possible, with a Chalice @0 and Force as Backup in the early turns, and after Turn 2 I can afford leaving 1 Mana open for Flusterstorm. Vial Turn 1 allows me to lay the Chalice @1 Turn 2 while still providing a very fast clock from Turn 3 onwards, something you couldn't accomplish with a start not having Vial. Yeah, you could just lay the Chalice @0 instead, but that gives them the opportunity to Brainstorm away the Petals and LEDs, while Chalice @1 completely shuts off their cantrips. Sometimes it's just a matter of luck to find out which one's better...

    Storm is a really tricky Matchup, and I really appreciate the input on that topic. It can just help everyone.
    I know that I don't devote that much of my SB against Storm, but that's mainly because I went through my boarding plans and found only a few cards to board out. With the input of you all I can see what you're doing different and may be able to adapt my playstyle to a better mode. Thank you all in advance :)

  20. #40
    Member
    mistercakes's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2009
    Location

    Berlin
    Posts

    1,064

    Re: [Deck/Primer] Countersliver (MeatHooks)

    great post Khamul
    -rob

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)