[Deck/Primer] Countersliver (MeatHooks)

[mistercakes]

Well it is far more than that:
- Elves
- Jund
- Shardless
- D&T
- Miracle
- Combo decks

Sure the card is really powerful on T2 and could be a dead draw midgame.
But the more you are looking for game breaker cards the more you are searching for diversity.

dunno how useful choke is, but it's an option. what i would do is determine what are the bad matchups and good ones. try to focus on the decks that are really unfavorable and just try out the most commonly played hate cards vs those decks, the rest of the matchups, just try to play fair magic.

has anyone tried a build with 4 chrome mox, 4 chalice, 4 collected company? it might be garbage, but it could be fun. (foregoing the force of wills entirely in the maindeck)

[Ultrab77]

Basically I'm searching a replacement to Meddling Mage.
Here are the options:
- Leonin arbiter (not a very good top deck)
- Suppression field (hindrance for us as well but to what extend, if it is game on our side, poor top deck ?)
- Root maze (yeah hell of a card but really poor top deck)

Do you think of anything else valuable (I prefer something with a wide application and not a narrow one)?

Phyrexian Revoker? Like Thalia instead of Thorn it can also hit for 2

@Khamul: I'm in for the FB page

@all: I leave to New Zealand tomorrow for 3 weeks so I will quietly think about all this and come back fresh for the new legacy season

[Khamul]

So, for anyone who wants to enter the FB Group:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/880019175448367/

Hope it will prosper like our Slivers do ;)

[mistercakes]

played vs a slivers deck today on modo in casual room. only thing of note was that he had thalia game 2.

[mistercakes]

i was thinking about sb cards. - what do you guys feel about trinisphere?

you aren't really casting more than 1 spell per turn

pros = beats most decks and if you're ahead with a vial the game is likely over (even without needing wasteland)
cons = you don't get an opportunity to play force of will for free, but can still be played for 3 mana. it's also much much worse on the draw.

i'd like to hear some thoughts on it, i'm going to run 2 for testing in my sb.

[Volt]

I'm not sure, MC. I suppose it would be great if it followed an Aether Vial. You'll have to let us know how it works out for you.

Btw, a sideboard suggestion I have for everyone is Karakas.

[Ralf]

Btw, a sideboard suggestion I have for everyone is Karakas.

Can you be more specific ? I fail to see the overall greatness of such a card in our SB as I find it too narrow.

[Volt]

You're a smart guy, Ralf. I think you can figure out how and when Karakas might be useful. Yeah, it's "narrow."

Moving on.

I took a Brainstorm Slivers list to my local Saturday tournament last night. Went 2-2. Lost to Canadian Thresh and Infect. Beat Grixis Delver and D&T. Felt like I had horrible luck in both of the matches I lost. Lost G1 to Thresh when I mulled to 6, kept a 1-land hand with Brainstorm, missed on the Brainstorm. SCOOP. Lost G3 when he got two quick goyfs, beat me down to 4 life before I semi-stabilized for a while, but couldn't mount any real heat. Ended up digging about 25 cards deep into my deck without drawing a single Crystalline, Muscle, Sinew, Predatory, or Syphon. I was whittling him down with a Galerider, Hibernation, and Plated, but he finally bolted me to death. Ugh. Frustrating. Against Infect, I mulliganed both games, got off to really slow starts, and couldn't really disrupt what my opponent was doing. He always had multiple Invigorates and one more Force of Will than I had. I really wanted Submerges in both of those matches. They're going back in my sideboard, no questions asked.

Against Grixis Delver, I won G3 (and the match) thanks to Syphon Sliver. We were taking turns swinging at each other with our respective teams. His team was bigger, with a Gurmag, and a Pyromancer with a small swarm of tokens, but my dudes were flying and had lifelink. Advantage me. Afterward, my opponent commented that it seemed like a bad matchup for him. The D&T match basically came down to my opponent not being able to deal with my big, invulnerable slivers.

Plated Sliver was good all night, but I think I'll drop the count to 3 and add back a Muscle Sliver. If I were doing it over again, this is the list I would take:

4 Crystalline Sliver
4 Hibernation Sliver
4 Galerider Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
1 Muscle Sliver
3 Plated Sliver
2 Syphon Sliver
2 Phantasmal Image

4 AEther Vial
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will

4 Mutavault
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Sliver Hive
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Island

sideboard:
2 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Harmonic Sliver
2 Rest in Peace
2 Submerge
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Karakas

[Ralf]

You're a smart guy, Ralf. I think you can figure out how and when Karakas might be useful. Yeah, it's "narrow."

Moving on.

Wasn't trying to be a dick.
Sorry if you took this comment that way. But, actually this was a real question. I don't pretend "seeing/knowing" everything and I might have missed something with Karakas.

Thanks for the report.

Keep playing Slivers !

PS: I'll be on a 2 weeks holiday next friday and might put up quite a few games with Slivers (and tweak it). I'll let you know afterwards !

[mistercakes]

You're a smart guy, Ralf. I think you can figure out how and when Karakas might be useful. Yeah, it's "narrow."

Moving on.

I took a Brainstorm Slivers list to my local Saturday tournament last night. Went 2-2. Lost to Canadian Thresh and Infect. Beat Grixis Delver and D&T. Felt like I had horrible luck in both of the matches I lost. Lost G1 to Thresh when I mulled to 6, kept a 1-land hand with Brainstorm, missed on the Brainstorm. SCOOP. Lost G3 when he got two quick goyfs, beat me down to 4 life before I semi-stabilized for a while, but couldn't mount any real heat. Ended up digging about 25 cards deep into my deck without drawing a single Crystalline, Muscle, Sinew, Predatory, or Syphon. I was whittling him down with a Galerider, Hibernation, and Plated, but he finally bolted me to death. Ugh. Frustrating. Against Infect, I mulliganed both games, got off to really slow starts, and couldn't really disrupt what my opponent was doing. He always had multiple Invigorates and one more Force of Will than I had. I really wanted Submerges in both of those matches. They're going back in my sideboard, no questions asked.

Against Grixis Delver, I won G3 (and the match) thanks to Syphon Sliver. We were taking turns swinging at each other with our respective teams. His team was bigger, with a Gurmag, and a Pyromancer with a small swarm of tokens, but my dudes were flying and had lifelink. Advantage me. Afterward, my opponent commented that it seemed like a bad matchup for him. The D&T match basically came down to my opponent not being able to deal with my big, invulnerable slivers.

Plated Sliver was good all night, but I think I'll drop the count to 3 and add back a Muscle Sliver. If I were doing it over again, this is the list I would take:

4 Crystalline Sliver
4 Hibernation Sliver
4 Galerider Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
3 Muscle Sliver
3 Plated Sliver
2 Syphon Sliver

4 AEther Vial
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will

4 Mutavault
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Sliver Hive
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Island

sideboard:
2 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Harmonic Sliver
2 Pithing Needle
2 Rest in Peace
2 Submerge
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Echoing Truth

thoughts on necrotic in sb for show and tell decks?

[Volt]

The idea being to drop Necrotic into play off Show and Tell, then spend 3 mana to vindicate your opponent's Griselbrand/Emrakul/Omniscience? Nice thought, but I'm not sure you can count on having the 3 mana.

Necrotic Sliver is one of those sliver cards that they just missed on. If they had made just a little more efficient, it would be playable.

[orkanelf]

Hey

I tryed out to play Phantasmal Image. First I was skeptical but now I love him! Also I changed my Manabase and now its much more brainstorm and Daze proofed. Now I m less aggrassive but with more Countern, kombo Proofed.

My list:


4 Crystalline Sliver
4 Galerider Sliver
3 Hibernation Sliver
3 Sinew Sliver
3 Predatory Sliver
3 Muscle Sliver
2 Phantasmal Image

4 AEther Vial

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Spell Pierce

4 Cavern of Souls
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Island

SB:
2 Submerge
2 Harmonic Sliver
2 Darkheart Sliver
2 Flusterstorm
2 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Meddling Mage
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Dismember

[Volt]

Looks solid, Ork, though I have a couple comments. Black is your scarcest color, so 2 Underground Sea seems odd. Also, you should always start with 4 Predatory Sliver, then add in however many Muscles and Sinews you can. It matters in the Merfolk matchup, and (god forbid) the mirror match.

[orkanelf]

Jea but my Split is better against Cabal therapy, Meddling mage of surgical extraction...

[Khamul]

thoughts on necrotic in sb for show and tell decks?

Necrotic is really, really, REALLY slow. If I was to put cards in SB just for Sneak & Show (what I do), it'd be Containment Priest. For Slivers, you could try out Constricting Sliver, which can just absorb the Shown and told Fattie. Doesn't work against Sneak Attack, obviously, but that's what Vial is for

[Volt]

Necrotic is really, really, REALLY slow. If I was to put cards in SB just for Sneak & Show (what I do), it'd be Containment Priest. For Slivers, you could try out Constricting Sliver, which can just absorb the Shown and told Fattie. Doesn't work against Sneak Attack, obviously, but that's what Vial is for

I'm trying to imagine my opponent's face as his Emrakul gets choked out by a Constricting Sliver, lol.

An old standby hate card for Show and Tell is Gilded Drake. Works fairly well for us, given the 2cc cost.

And if I may pile on Necrotic Sliver just a little bit more before we let it go, I think it says something that even when you get to dump it into play for free (ala Show and Tell), it's still probably too "slow." I've often pondered what exactly it would take to make that card actually playable. I think you would have to reduce both the casting cost and the activation by 1.

[Curby]

The problem with a too-cheap activation cost is that you can start blowing up lands (even basics) for just 2 mana. But I'd be ok with blowing up non-land permanents for .

[Volt]

The problem with a too-cheap activation cost is that you can start blowing up lands (even basics) for just 2 mana. But I'd be ok with blowing up non-land permanents for .

Yeah, that's fair. Non-land permanents it is. I like it. Who do I talk to at Wizards? lol

Also, join our Facebook page if you haven't already, Kirby.

[orkanelf]

My answer against Show and Tell shit ist my mainboard Phantasmal Image, and my counter count ;-)

[Chronatog]

My answer against Show and Tell shit ist my mainboard Phantasmal Image, and my counter count ;-)

If you plan to use Phantasmal Image to copy a creature that your opponent brings to the class, you won't be able to do so because both creatures enter the play simultaneously and instantly and Image will not have a valid target to copy (assuming, no other creatures in play). And Gilded Drake will work beautifully fine both with Show and Tell and with Vial on two.