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There's currently a lot of discussion on Maro's blog. Appearently, Maro hates the current legendary rule because in his opinion, being a story-relevant character comes with an automatic drawback. Instead, the legendary supertype should be abandoned and replaced with a keyword ("Unique" or whatever) to mark creatures fit for Commander and other mechanical interactions like Karakas while you can happily jam 4 copies on the battlefield with little thought.
Luckily, he's currently in the minority with his opinion in R&D, but I think it's an interesting thought experiment: What would happen to the format if the legendary rule was no more?
- D&T would get a massive powerboost. 4x Karakas becomes a no-brainer and multiple Thalias on the battlefield wreck noncreature decks even harder
- multiple Gaea's Cradle become stable mana providers instead of a one-shot ritual effect in Elves
- the original Dark Depths survives the combo when the copied one gets sacrificed
- Jitte isn't terribad in multiples anymore
- fringe cases where you could cheat into play multiple Emrakuls/Griselbrands
And probably some other stuff I'm missing.
What's your opinion - would it be a change for the better or worse?
I think that having that Supertype lets them push some cards that they otherwise would choose not to. Brand, Emmy, Thalia, Jitte or even my own Marit Lage are slightly more balanced because of this "Drawback" they have. It also lets them push never cards like the Vampire that is coming. While that card will not have much of an impact on Legacy, the card will slot into a deck like Grixis control in Modern with ease. I do not think that the ripples that such a choice would have are healthy overall and I feel that if they with to remove the Supertype, just stop printing it. Do not remove it and unbalance some things that are right now balanced because of it.
Edit:
Just realised they can't stop printing it because of EDH. Looks like they are stuck with it one way or the other.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
Originally Posted by Spam
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
How so? Wouldn't the marker ability still work?
I'm sure they could find a way to work around this. They already printed Planeswalkers that can be generals, If they really wanted to stop with Legendary then I think the would find a work around.
I personally really disagree with the idea that there there should be no drawbacks (imagine printing upkeep today... not going to happen), and think the shift in design towards this has really hurt magic.
They haven't even landed the Wastes and colorless color concept on the actual game and have shitloads of problems right now with their judge bans and leaks. I do not think they should worry on anything else right now.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
Multiple Thalias in play would definitely be great for D+T, but I don't think many decks want multiple Jittes in play / in their hand. If you have one online vs a creature deck, you've probably won, if you have one in play then you just want to ensure that you have a threat to attach it to and you don't get tempo'd out by removal. Playing another Jitte just compounds those problems - you'd probably rather just have something to attach the first one to.
Elves is usually winning on the turn where they're using multiple Cradles. There are edge cases where it would matter, like if they naturally drew 3 of them early in the game, but I don't think it would affect the deck in the same way that Thalia -> Thalia would affect D+T.
But I wonder if there are some powerful interactions that would exist that don't right now - legendary cards that are currently not played at all that nevertheless have strong effects in multiples.
This seems like a bad idea.
Karakas has an important role to keep certain busted creatures in check.
♀
Not that they're liable to be competitive, but the doubling replacement effects like Krak's Thumb and Alhamarret's Archive can get out of hand quickly in multiples. (Edit: I forgot Thrumming Stone.) Eladamri gets a little better. Vendillion Clique and Venser, Shaper Savant + Karakas stuff gets a bit more out of hand too.
I mean that they are not able to abandon the Legendry type totally. Well until Gundam pointed out they can.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
This.
Seriously, and inb4 anyone else, Maro should stop fucking with the basic game design and go find some other job. He might idk try a pizza delivery or anything as remote from gaming industry as possible.
His lack of brain cells is obvious and I guess that if it would depend on either him or his children (or whoever designed Emrakul), we'd retroactively lose upkeep, mana costs and everything else that hinders slamming 18/36 trample haste, malign, double flying, man-ass inhalator6 into play... erm, on battlefield.
On topic: Having up to four Thalias would be devastating for certain decks, and although Glowriders exist, they are nowehre near T's efficiency (1W, first strike).
I guess having 2+ Jittes wouldn't hurt the controller, as more counters = more fun. Also having more jittes would be necessary for jitte matchup contests. Just like today: the guy with more jittes wins, except that today the upper limit of jittes os one.
From storyboard point of view, it is an extremely stupid idea to remove the leg rule, imao, as the "there can be only one" aspect is what makes the unique characters unique. But seeing the WotCs Jace-narcomania, I'm glad that we don't have thousands of them already.
Maybe Maro could move to some sub-WotC dvivision where he and his sycophants (fo spelling) might design an adult(ery) game all about Jace, Liliana and their college friendship.
/rant
No, it's not a good idea. I see no positives.
"Really just everything should be unremarkable creatures that do stuff, unless they're Green or Blue then you should be able to just windmill slam them and win. But see Green creatures you get big doods and Blue creatures you get lots of cards in hand so you can cast more doods so really it's two entirely different ways to win. Look how diverse Magic is you guys you guys."
I know that's hyperbole, nobody said that, but oh my god sometimes that's all I hear from the people in charge of this game. It used to not even bother me to an extent, but like.... just some stuff that rolls down the pike is so bloody thoopid.
Getting rid of Legendary would preclude a ton of things from existing in their current form -- like it would be one of those Back to the Future paradoxes where Marty goes to 1955, gives his dad +3/+3 and he comes back to 1985 and doesn't understand the game state. There are so many Legendary things that just could not exist in their current form if they could be in play x4. Jitte? Thalia? Grand Arbiter Augustin as a four-of seems real cool. What about dropping multiple Katakis on a motherfucker, that seems strong. Edric would make GU Fish so fucking real if you could just draw into all of them and play them too.
Like even unremarkable Legendaries would have to have been reconsidered immensely. Rofellos would have been super banned and every copy ground into talcum powder. Sygg River Guide in multiples would make the best face deck plays of all time; you turn-early a couple Syggs and just Bolt face a lot and draw like 2-3 cards EOT all day forever. Or like, who'd really want to sit across from like 3 Geist of Saint Traft. I know it's not the brokennest thing of all time, but like.... who wants that. Who actually wants that to be a thing. What a shitty shitty board state that creates. Fucking just no is all.
I like the change where the Legend Rule only checks each player's side of the battlefield -- I still feel like we should be calling it the "Champion Edition" rule, because OBVS -- but really there's no need to dick around with unique permanents any further, whether it's Planeswalkers or Legendary permanents of any other kind. The ability to print cards that are uniquely powerful AND aggressively costed due to their inability to show up in multiples not only makes games more interesting but also means that deckbuilding isn't just a matter of derping your 10 favorite cards in a deck 4x times and playing whatever land and not weighing the consequences of running too many of a card that really shouldn't be played alongside itself.
Ya, Having trouble finding anything to disagree with here...
Have we not yet figured out that Maro made his blog with the sole purpose to troll the magic community?
Also: Waiting on that first yes vote.... might be waiting awhile.
The worst part is not only the perpetual dumbing-down of the game by removing drawbacks, possible targets (opponent controls being common), sacrifice, and similar, but that he thinks he's doing good each time because the game has been growing.
He literally brags about how many "innovations" he's had that are garbage that *didn't* kill the game. I would imagine he gets his way in the next couple years despite vehement opposition.
It's one of those rare times we can all come together and sing out of tune.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
What's better? Being able to have multiples of anything you like on the battlefield, or having some cards have a kind of uninteresting drawback for so that the flavour makes sense? I don't think there's a clear winner. If they went with Maro's plan maybe they'd have to ban some things in Legacy, which again, could be good or could be bad.
"I'm willing to imagine a TES where Past in Flames replaces Ill-Gotten Gains entirely, and we just don't play Diminishing Returns." - me, 29/09/2011
Founding member of Team Scrubbad: Legacy Legends
Which makes me wonder how often Maro has forced shitty ideas on the game despite nobody liking it.
I just don't see what is gained by removing Legendary and making them normal cards. The current trend of "all upsides, no downsides" alongside overcosting everything gets annoying and boring very fast.
Interestingly enough, they have already chosen to make unique locations non-legendary for mechanical reasons, namely the Mirrodin artifact lands and Zendikar trigger lands (e.g. Vakalut).
Can I play White Weenie with 4x Isamaru, 4x Kytheon, 4x Thalia and curve out with Day of Destiny?
Legendary cards are designed specifically with both the flavor and power level of the single copy rule. There is a thing as too much sacrificed in your quest to dumb the game down to the least common denominator.
I see this as a long-term problem associated with Hasbro buying wotc. There are profit requirements calculated quarterly that don't exist in a much smaller company. This sort of thinking does not leave any room for the profits down the road for having a game that is excellent, and sure as hell do not have any of us in mind. All they can manage with such a short time frame is bringing up profits with decisions that have an immediate impact. This shitty thinking may not ruin the game in one or two strokes, but the continued hollowing out of what makes Magic special will eventually lead to the same shit we get for movies, music, television, and to some extent video games. Suits who answer to money and not art make creative decisions for everything. It turns entertainment into bland sameness which can only exist in a world where your target continually changes which in turn only exists because advertisers seek the attention of teenagers above all else, and they have aged out before they realize that they have been consuming soulless regurgitated unoriginal resequenced shite because market research says that new players prefer the kicker family of abilities over spells that cause them to learn how the stack works.
Whoa...I got all worked up. At any rate, I have always feared this happening to Magic.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
I don't think it's an uninteresting drawback. Forcing you to run less than 4 in most decks despite being a good card is nifty. The fact that Karakas makes it that much more complicated in the case of Tasigur or other difficult to cast dudes is also pretty nifty; if relegated to Legacy.
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