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Thread: [Legacy Lessons] The Problem with Esper

  1. #1
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    [Legacy Lessons] The Problem with Esper

    This week I take a look at why it might be that Esper (Stoneblade) isn't performing very well and what the potential options to improve said archetypes are. In the end I share a crazy deck idea with you that I've been working on. If you want to hear more about the deck, make sure to let me know. :)

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    Re: [Legacy Lessons] The Problem with Esper

    I know that you've been experimenting with Show and Tell in Miracles, but this is new. Guess you just have a natural affinity for cards that crush Elves.

    Also:

    The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
    1. Discuss the unbanning of Land Tax Earthcraft.
    2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
    3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
    4. Stifle Standstill.
    5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
    6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
    7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).

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    Re: [Legacy Lessons] The Problem with Esper

    I enjoyed the article as usual. :)

    I would like to hear more thought from you about both the archetype in general and also the specific list. It reminds me of Splinter Twin in the sense that it's both combo and control. However, in Modern (which has a lot of linear strategies) the splinter twin combo really shines because it just wins unopposed game 1 a lot of the time and functions like a bailout from the control plan in matchups where you sort of need your sideboard to be favored as a control deck. Do you believe that Legacy is equally soft to a MD combo out of a fair deck, and is the consistency at risk when you combine two different game plans that doesn't really support each other into one deck?

    Would definitely like to hear your thoughts on these things.

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    Re: [Legacy Lessons] The Problem with Esper

    Great article as always! Great content in general you are delivering, keep em coming mate!

    I think someone is credit due for the S&T in blade. I remember seeing a guy on air a while back that performed very well, a blade deck with s&t like your list.
    Sadly I cant recollect who it was or what larger tournament.

    As a previously avid xxblade player I am sad that blade is simply not good enough a control or midrange deck, and always ends up being two half decks mixed in one.
    When your cards align it is neigh unbeatable, but when they dont you often just end up looking silly racking up loss'es with little reply.

    On a side note, food chain is a very, very good combo control deck, which brings a rougue factor along with a very good gameplan to backup the 'oops I win' combo.

    Cheers from Denmark
    Christopher

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    Re: [Legacy Lessons] The Problem with Esper

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    I know that you've been experimenting with Show and Tell in Miracles, but this is new. Guess you just have a natural affinity for cards that crush Elves.

    Also:

    One might laugh at this picture, but once you equip both Batterskull and Jitte on Griselbrand it gets pretty stupid pretty quickly. :D

    Quote Originally Posted by LarsLeif View Post
    I enjoyed the article as usual. :)

    I would like to hear more thought from you about both the archetype in general and also the specific list. It reminds me of Splinter Twin in the sense that it's both combo and control. However, in Modern (which has a lot of linear strategies) the splinter twin combo really shines because it just wins unopposed game 1 a lot of the time and functions like a bailout from the control plan in matchups where you sort of need your sideboard to be favored as a control deck. Do you believe that Legacy is equally soft to a MD combo out of a fair deck, and is the consistency at risk when you combine two different game plans that doesn't really support each other into one deck?

    Would definitely like to hear your thoughts on these things.
    Thanks!

    That's a good comparison but I have to disagree that the two game plans do not support each other. While they're not instrinsically interchangable it's still a matter of fact that even single combo pieces have their use and merits. More on this point as well as some stupid stories in two weeks. :)

    Quote Originally Posted by jedi_gof View Post
    Great article as always! Great content in general you are delivering, keep em coming mate!

    I think someone is credit due for the S&T in blade. I remember seeing a guy on air a while back that performed very well, a blade deck with s&t like your list.
    Sadly I cant recollect who it was or what larger tournament.

    As a previously avid xxblade player I am sad that blade is simply not good enough a control or midrange deck, and always ends up being two half decks mixed in one.
    When your cards align it is neigh unbeatable, but when they dont you often just end up looking silly racking up loss'es with little reply.

    On a side note, food chain is a very, very good combo control deck, which brings a rougue factor along with a very good gameplan to backup the 'oops I win' combo.

    Cheers from Denmark
    Christopher
    Thanks man!

    Yeah, as I said I'm not the first to do this. The first time I saw something like this was a couple years ago in Vienna. I wasn't really aware of any other occurences of this deck but I could easily be 100% wrong.

    I feel you! :(

    Food Chain is a great analogy, that's right!



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    Re: [Legacy Lessons] The Problem with Esper

    Quote Originally Posted by Einherjer View Post
    This week I take a look at why it might be that Esper (Stoneblade) isn't performing very well and what the potential options to improve said archetypes are. In the end I share a crazy deck idea with you that I've been working on. If you want to hear more about the deck, make sure to let me know. :)

    Greetings
    Cool article, as a fan of anything esper I enjoyed it. A deck I had a similar idea but never really tested much which was a stoneblade shell, with 4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, 2-3 Lilianas, Reanimates, and griselbrands. Is that route anything you explored? The S&T package is surely more compact, but the card S&T is useless by itself, while Jace/lily/reanimate are not.

    I think esper stoneblade, like you said, is totally outclassed by miracles and BUG, but I do not think Esper Mentor has the same problem. It crushes fair creature decks and combo, is even/favored with Delver, It is has a even/slightly-unfavored miracles matchup and only really struggles with lands and Jund.

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    Re: [Legacy Lessons] The Problem with Esper

    Quote Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
    Cool article, as a fan of anything esper I enjoyed it. A deck I had a similar idea but never really tested much which was a stoneblade shell, with 4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, 2-3 Lilianas, Reanimates, and griselbrands. Is that route anything you explored? The S&T package is surely more compact, but the card S&T is useless by itself, while Jace/lily/reanimate are not.
    Thanks! Yeah I have drafted a few lists with Reanimate/Unearth/Entomb/Jace and so on but didn't really get around to test it as I was focusing on the Show and Tell build. Maybe I'll do so in the future! :)


    Quote Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
    I think esper stoneblade, like you said, is totally outclassed by miracles and BUG, but I do not think Esper Mentor has the same problem. It crushes fair creature decks and combo, is even/favored with Delver, It is has a even/slightly-unfavored miracles matchup and only really struggles with lands and Jund.
    Yeah, that was what I was saying. Esper Mentor with Painful Truths might be another viable approach that I hadn't had the time to try yet but will def. do so in the future!

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    Re: [Legacy Lessons] The Problem with Esper

    Quote Originally Posted by Einherjer View Post
    Thanks! Yeah I have drafted a few lists with Reanimate/Unearth/Entomb/Jace and so on but didn't really get around to test it as I was focusing on the Show and Tell build. Maybe I'll do so in the future! :)
    Thanks for the article! My first reaction was also towards reanimation, as there's already discard and intuition too (was even thinking of Unburial Rites).

    Another approach that already crossed my mind, was adding Intuition packages as RUGLands does, as it could enable loam/AcademyRuins/EngineeredExplosives or loam/DarkDepths/Thespian'sStage along, although this would require a small green splash.

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    Re: [Legacy Lessons] The Problem with Esper

    Quote Originally Posted by Ingo View Post
    Thanks for the article! My first reaction was also towards reanimation, as there's already discard and intuition too (was even thinking of Unburial Rites).

    Another approach that already crossed my mind, was adding Intuition packages as RUGLands does, as it could enable loam/AcademyRuins/EngineeredExplosives or loam/DarkDepths/Thespian'sStage along, although this would require a small green splash.
    You're welcome. :)

    Yeah, there's many options to take here, and one cannot really assess which one is the best before trying all out. There's a few problems that I'll outline in the follow-up article but feel free to test any variant and let me know if one of them performs extraordinarily well. :)

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