Matchup Vs bug and death and taxes is very hard?Originally Posted by Captain Hammer
No, it's a favorable matchup.
A quick update, the Oblivion Build has been doing phenomenal since I added 4 Leyline to the board.
Manabase
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
3 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Core Cards
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Oblivion Sower
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Flex Slots
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
2 Dismember
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Phyrexian Revoker
Sideboard
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Trinisphere
2 All is Dust
1 Duplicant
The past two weeks and over 100 matches, I've yet to face an unfavorable matchup for this list!
nice!!!!!!!!
I wrote to you in private
you have surely tried Leyline in the main with Helm of Obedience.
What's your feedback and why is it outside the 75?
Because helm is a useless card outside of the two card combo and there is no way to tutor for helm.
Continuing here instead of in the Eldrazi DTB-thread.
Thanks! :)
I read the DTB-section the night before the tournament. In the morning I weighted the mtgtop8-list versus the list you play, and at that point I figured that if I used City of Traitors turn 1 to cast Chalice, then I would be wastelanding myself as most spells are expensive. After the tournament, I read up on how City can be played in this deck (third land drop to enable casting Oblivion Sower), so it probably isn't as bad as I thought. So it wasn't due to it being a "blue meta" where I needed Caverns instead.
I barely drew Grim Monolith, and frequently boarded 1-2 out versus quick decks. I even took one out versus DnT due to not wanting 3 cards to be shutdown by one Revoker. In hindsight I should probably have kept them in versus quick decks as that is one way for the deck to be quick. But at that point my evaluation was that "it is not a business spell, I rather board it out then another creature" and I never felt like I needed Grim Monolith to cast my 6 drops. I wouldn't draw to many conclusions from my 6 matches and Grim Monolith is an answer to Blood Moon, which thankfully, I never saw.
I'm glad you enjoyed playing the list. Its an ever evolving creation, as there is so much play and flexibility to the Eldrazi, so that needs to be taken into consideration. A few quick things about the list. Grim monolith is there for acceleration (obviously). We play mainly play big threats, and being able to dump one out quickly is huge. Being able to potentially play an Endbring/Sower on T2 with daze backup is pretty useful. It also ties into the City of Traitors being absent. Since I wanted to include Cavern, I needed to shave some lands, and the City's were the easiest to cut. Yes, it cuts your chance of having a T1 chalice, but City can hurt you if you are forced into playing it T1 and then losing it (big dorks require lots lands to cast em!). Without city, I wanted some way of accelerating the mana, and monolith does it best for our purposes (big dorks). The other reason is that sometimes the deck feels slow with a T1 cloudpost, and monolith helps you gain back that tempo (of course the cloupost mana helps with that too...!). Monolith also does some other things - Eye activations, blood moon, v. mana denial, daze).
I didn't include mimic as I just wanted to run the biggest baddest boys and found mimic to be weak v. a fair amount of decks. Reshaper isn't that sweet, but is a solid card and works well with the cloudpost base, so it is a must. Jitte is just such a solid card as well as providing another form of 'removal' other than Endbringer (and Ulamog...).
I think there is a lot of room for tweaking here. The land base can definitely be changed for your needs, although I really hate going below 2 CoS. It is just so good against a lot of decks that I feel it needs to be present in some number (2-3 is my pref.). Going to 2 CoS would allow you to put back 1 CoT.
I gave this version of a deck for a quick goldfish session and it seems even weaker to Grixis Delver/daze decks than the traditional versions of eldrazi aggro. The midrange matchups are definitely improved by going over the top, but I'm wondering if I'm approaching the delver matchup incorrectly, or if this is just an inherent weakness of this archetype.
Thats not inline with my experience at all. Delver is a good matchup. I wouldn't pay much credence to gold fishing, play it against the deck for real and I think you'll find gold fishing doesn't accurately assess the deck performance.
What has your sideboarding strategy been vs Delver?
Haven't done any sideboarded matches yet. Did some more testing, it seems like it was a slew of pretty crazy hands from the delver side that skewed my perception of the matchup. Things like t1 delver, daze the chalice, t2 flip delver, waste + waste. I guess the deck is just banking on a slower delver start/get jitte online to catchup midgame.
Edit: how does this list tend to fair vs lands?
Glad to hear. The list isn't banking on a slower delver start though. It has enough early game threats to keep up with, race or atleast stabilize vs. fast Delver starts. I don't think a few brief gold fishing results is the best way to see how it fares.
Lands is about even to slightly favorable. It's an easier matchup for this than for most Eldrazi Aggro decks. It's not as easy matchup, but it's certainly better than other Eldrazi decks. This list recovers from wasteland much better than the average Eldrazi Aggro decklist.
Like I said, yes I do prefer Oblivion Build to a ramp strategy. I have yet to find a bad matchup for the Oblivion Build and it's performance has been nothing short of remarkable.
However, if I were to switch and opted to play a ramp deck, I would utilize an Eldrazi oriented ramp strategy that makes use of Eye of Ugin and Eldrazi Temple and Eldrazi based mana generation rather than putting so much weight on artifact mana.
This is how I would play it (untested, might need some slight tweaking to ensure a smooth curve)...
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
2 City of Traitors
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Oblivion Sower
4 Conduit of Ruin
2 Kozilek's Channeler
1 Breaker of Armies
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
This way you don't have to devote a bunch of slots to artifact mana that end up being dead weight when you're in top deck mode and you won't auto lose to Null Rod. As you can see, I really wouldn't recommend cutting Reality Smasher or Mimics from the list. Otherwise, you give up too much of the deck's speed making it too slow to keep up with combo and burn decks. 1 ofs are the best way to go imo since you have both Eye of Ugin and Conduit of Ruin to tutor for them when needed.
Definitely test the list out. I think it has potential and could be a serious competitor in the format with some tweaking to smoothen out the mana curve. But overall, I think it's a much more consistent and more resilient way to approach Eldrazi ramp than via artifact mana.
Artifact mana approaches tend to be swingy, either you have the nuts hands or you end up with hands chockful of mana and no threats, or chockfull of threats and not enough mana to cast any of them. The list I posted is specifically geared to avoid this happening and Conduit of Ruin is a key reason why (triples as a beater, mana accelerant and tutor for a big threat).
As for the side, I would probably play Dismember, Jitte, Leyline, Thorn, All is Dust, a single Duplicant and maybe some ratchet bombs in the sideboard, but gear the sideboard for what shows up in your meta.
Trying the ramp list out for a bit (didn't get a chance to actually play it so just going by goldfishing), this seems to offer a smoother curve...
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cloudpost
3 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
3 City of Traitors
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Oblivion Sower
4 Conduit of Ruin
1 Breaker of Armies
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Grim Monolith (or Endless One or Matter Reshaper or Palladium Myr or Kozilek's Channeler or a Jitte/2 Dismember Split)
3 Trinisphere
I think it might be worth it to play this list instead caprino.
Update: The above test list is outdated, refer to the list in the post immediately below this post for the updated list.
Last edited by Captain Hammer; 10-16-2016 at 01:07 PM.
Caprino, since you wanted a solid ramp build, play this list. It's very good, you can leave the sideboard the same as your old sideboard.
Don't make any changes to the following list, play this exact identical list below for atleast a handful of games and then feel free to dismiss this approach if you get any win percentage under 70%. Yes 70-75% is what I've been getting and I am certain you will get similar results if you try it. So, I highly recommend trying this identical list without ANY changes just a couple of games atleast. You can leave your sideboard as is. Any sideboard that has some combo hate in it will suffice.
//Mana
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
3 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
1-2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
//Core
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
//Flex
4-3 Endless One
4 Oblivion Sower
4 Conduit of Ruin
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Breaker of Armies
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
//Sideboard
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Trinisphere
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Dismember
2 Pithing Needle
2 All is Dust
Again, play this identical main deck list. Don't make any changes except to the sideboard until you try this list unmodified first.
If AFTER trying it, you're left unhappy with the post manabase (which I think is very unlikely speaking from personal experience), I would still encourage you to play the same identical list with the only change being to the land figuration, by switching to a mana base consisting of...
//Mana
4 Crystal Vein
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
2-3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
0-4 Grim Monolith
...but making no other changes to the rest of the deck except to adopt the above mana base and possibly main decking a few Grim Monoliths.
Last edited by Captain Hammer; 10-21-2016 at 07:30 AM.
So, I won a small tournament. Won a snapcaster and 5 more in cards. I think we were 11 people, but 5 rounds and cut to top 4. Went 3-1-1 in the swiss.
I am still on the PhilLesh version basically, the changes I made was cutting an Endbringer for another Ulamog main. The sideboard was changed more to look like this:
2 All is Dust
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Pithing Needle
2 Thrinisphere
2 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Surgical Extraction
Game 1 was versus Pox (2-1), game 2 versus Burn (2-1). Apparently Thorn and Thrinisphere is good here :)
Game 3 was versus our big brother, 12 post. It was an intersting game to say the least as Locuses are counted on both sides. The creatures does a lot, but this is a game of who can activate Eye of Ugin first. Several of my hands were locusless, which is good, but in one game my opponent opens with forest where by I play a Cloudpost and he plays a Vesuva copying my it. Many many rounds later I lost due to this misplay. Play your other lands or race to Ulamog is my tip.
Game 4 versus Shardless Bug (1-2), he was running Grim Flayer. I can't quite remember the order but I made a mistake, which is this list biggest problem. I mean by far the number one reason I have lost rounds, I get cocky and feel like I can't lose this! One game he won on the play by casting 3 hymns and one wasteland. Another due to me playing badly. This is a game where you should just play slowly. Don't trade, don't fall for Dismember. Play for Ulamog!
Game 5 ID. Went for sushi and killed some merfolk!
Top 4 versus another Shardless BUG (2-0) player with a different list. I just stared him down with my guys even though I had 1 Smasher and 1 Oblivion Sower as I didn't want to trade one to a Dismember. Got Ulamog, won!
Finals versus a Grixis Bedlam Delver list. Another trick with this list is that you frequently get Ancient Tombs in your starting hand and while it is good you take a lot of damage. Versus Burn you get scarred or lists like this where the opponent play lightning bolt. Don't be. Play the line which give you the most mana, even if it is Ancient Tombs even if it is versus Burn and be brave. Now round 2 was lost due to this. So in 3 round I got this of a muligan (as I recall, bit hazy and rushing to write thi): 2 chalices, 1 thorn, 1 ancient tomb, 1 cavern and 1 thought-knot seer. Not a good hand but a countered chalice is bad. I scry and see an ancient tomb. My line was chalice for 1, thorn round 2 and hope for a land and thought-know round 3. When I saw the tomb I cringed and kept it. Played turn 1 chalice for 1, turn 2 chalice for 2, turn 3 thought-knot look at my opponents hand see a bunch of 1 and 2 drops, amongst 1 being ancient grude and a fow, which I took. Turn 4, looked at my life and went down to 7 (got one from Glimmerpost). Of course I won! Even though I lost 14 life due to Ancient Tomb during the game. It helps when you don't forget your chalice triggers, and he tried :)
Got to run!
I played it some more today, went 3-0-1... So my record is crazy with this deck! I played RG Lands and started out with a record of something along the lines of 1-3, 3-1,3-1,3-1, which is great! But this deck is something else!
I played BUG Leovold (2-0) in my first game of the day. Leovold is disruptive and messes a lot of things up. Thought-Knot becomes "draw 2 cards when it dies" card, everything is messed up! Love that card, hate to play against it.The good thing is playing a 3 color guy means they usually have very few wastelands. Play it slow and not too many threats at once.
Then I faced a very good player who hadn't played for a few years. He was on WGR Aggro (Nacatel, Kird Ape...), running a bunch of old cards, duals and burn. A ghost fire bypasses my chalice for 1 and kills me game 1. Game 2, on the play I keep an all lander, just to see if I could win. I think I drew into some business spells but Eye of Ugin turn 4, for Ulamog turn 5 is not so easy to overcome. He managed to go 3-1 during the evening so good for him.
After that I played versus a very good DnT (2-1) player. Game one he starts with a vial, wasteland, port and a mana, flickerwisps... Game 2 I am on the play so not much to say. Game 3 he keeps a plains, wasteland, vial and some plows and some two drops. He plays plains vial passes the turn. I think about playing my best land or the land I want him to waste. I go for the best land usually, in this case Cloudpost. So, I pass the turn and he considers playing a two drop but ends up wasting me. I take my turn, play an temple, play pithing needle, consider wasteland and then say aether vial. He doesn't draw a land for many turn. I play thought know and see two two-drops, a three-drop creature and 3 plows. I take one plow, he plows my guy. I play Oblivion Sower and get a wasteland and a caverns off of it, yes! He concedes.
For my last game I play against a BUGR 4 Color (1-1-1), punishing fire, snap caster, baby jace deck with waste. He played slowly and so did I. For game 3 I tried speeding things up, our time was almost up, so I committed with more resources than I could afford to. He plays Toxic Deluge and starts loaming and wasting. Time is called and we end up drawing. Had I not done that... Anyway, lesson learned.
So the last tournament was just a check to see if I should bring this deck to a large tournament. I did and I won. My result was 9-1-1.
Current record is 23-2-5, 4 of which are IDs. I think it is up there competing for the spot of the most powerful deck.
What's your list?
This is the list, feel free to ask any questions:
4 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Oblivion Sower
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Endbringer
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Grim Monolith
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cloudpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Cavern of Souls
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Sideboard:
4 Pithing Needle
3 All is Dust
3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Surgical Extraction
Nice, side in and side out guide?
Awesome list. Any changes you wish you made?
What do you think about playing a 1 of Kozilek Butcher in place of one Ulamog to give you something to tutor up vs control when they are holding counters. Ulamog if it gets countered doesn't do enough to win you the game. Kozilek Butcher if it gets countered gets shuffled back in so you can tutor it up again, drawing you 4 cards each time. It gives you inevitability.
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