Maybe incorporating W or other colors would do the trick like this new brew making use of displacer and drowner of hope. Looks interesting. http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=17579&d=308919&f=LEOriginally Posted by mulder
Chalice does something yes, a lot of decks are prepared for it, but it isn't that easy beating it with any decks that have a lot of 1 mana drop, and that is like a LOT of decks. Also UR Delver, Miracles, Czech Pile and infect they might be unfavored, but are only slightly unfavorable if much. Blood Moon decks are very few, aside from some SB techs, only Big Red which is already on the list uses it to a extend that really crushes this deck. The same way you say about the MU here I can say about 95% of legacy decks. That is something you need to be accustomed unless you are willing to always play the "best" deck always.
I've always felt Eldrazi was a very good deck, but not THE deck to beat, which is pretty ok to play with it if you really like the deck. You went 3-2 it happens, maybe next time you enter a tournament where you face a bunch of storm, delver decks and feel like the best deck in the format. If you want a deck that have few loopsided MU, then I think only RUG/Grixis Delver can serve you that, even though they have a lot of bad MU, non of them are loopsided if it is the reason why you are not wanting to play Eldrazi.
Those decks get crushed by lands - very lopsided.
Every deck in Legacy is prey for something else. That's the format.
What this means is that any tier-1 deck can be soft in the wrong meta. If your LCG is full of Loam decks, aggro/tempo, and Moon decks, your deck might be bad there. If your meta has more Elves, Storm, and Delver (not U/R), you are probably looking well above average.
Supremacy 2020 is the modern era game of nuclear brinksmanship! My blog:
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com
You can play Lands.dec in EDH too! My primer:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/t...lara-lands-dec
Took a break from Legacy to start getting into Modern.
As a sidebar, Modern (Eldrazi Tron / Bant Eldrazi) is very unique. I initially thought there was no point on playing Chalice in a deck that cannot deploy it on turn 1 for X=1. But turns out waiting to play X=2, even on turns >5 is correct... I still have a lot to learn.
Prior to that, I brewed A LOT, experimenting with all sorts of color combinations, 3-colors, 4-colors, 5-colors.... and it was tough, the green Eldrazi are just not good enough! In the end, by far the best results I got were from the Esper combination. I had some good (not excellent) results, lots and lots of 4-1s on mtgo leagues, and one 5-0. But the new deck-publishing system would never show them.
Anyhow, today I decided to take a break from Modern and played a league, and boom! got a 5-0:
List is solid, but because it's not your usual Eldrazi stompy, it may take several matches to get used to its elements. Hope some of you can give it a try!
Last edited by Qernavak; 01-11-2018 at 02:37 AM.
Well, every color has one or maybe two good eldrazis...i don't think green is the issue there.
Anyway, interesting list. Might give it a try.
Hey all, I just started playing this deck after taking a break from legacy for some years. Prior to taking a break I used to play Merfolk, so this is a new deck for me. I went to a 34 person Competitive REL event last Sunday with the following list:
MB:
Creatures 22
4 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Matter Reshaper
4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
1 Endbringer
2 Walking Ballista
Artifacts 10
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Spells 3
2 Dismember
1 Warping Wail
Lands 25
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
3 Eye of Ugin
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Karakas
SB:
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Warping Wail
1 Dismember
1 All is Dust
1 Winter Orb
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
It was a 6 round event with a cut to top 8
Round 1: Infect 1-2 Loss
First round of the day, first time playing the deck in a real event, it started out good. I won game one with a chalice on 1 turn 1 followed by TKS -> Smasher and a well timed warping wail on his blighted agent. Game 2 he had the krosan grip and aggressive start which I stymied a little, but ended up just getting flooded while he beat me to death with a bunch of dudes. Game 3 was sooo close. I had Chalice on 1 for most of the game and saw a million removal spells for every creature he played, plus lots of wastelands for his inkmoths and other lands. my only clock was a 4/4 Endless One and a 2/2 Endless one. With him at 6 life, me at 7 poison, I topdecked yet another land after drawing them for turns, and made him chump with his noble hierarch to get one more draw. All he had was two lands and blighted agent. He ripped brainstorm into blossoming defense and that was all she wrote. Really close game, had I been on the play game 3 I think I win that match.
Round 2: ANT 2-0 Win
This was against one of my friends who came with me to the event, so he and I both knew this was basically unwinnable for him. I mulled to 5 both games to keep turn 1 chalice hands and this wasn't even fun for anyone involved. Game 1 I had chalice on 0, chalice on 1, and a thorn out on turn 2, followed by a turn 3 TKS lol.
Round 3: Jeskai Stoneblade 2-0 Win
I didn't take many notes from this match, but from what I recall game 1 I had chalice on 1 --> TKS --> Smasher and that was the game. Game 2 he had to mulligain to oblivion (very obviously trying to find blood moon) and I chaliced on 1 followed by a little pressure and 3 wastelands to keep him from ever reaching 3 mana.
Round 4: Czech Pile, 4-c Leovold, whatever this deck is called 2-0 Win
One of the strangest matches of magic I've ever played in my life. Both games, he did a million things - casting cantrips, discard spells, flashing stuff back with snapcaster, yada yada. And both games I just beat him to death with Reality Smasher(s). Like, he always had a full grip and at some point it occurred to me that he apparently just had no way to deal with smasher.
Round 5: Czech Pile, 4c Leovold, whatever 0-2 Loss
So I beat myself for most of this match. I was starving and tired and not thinking straight, and my inexperience with the deck finally started to show through despite a really good day so far. Game 1 I kept a hand with a bunch of cities and wastelands and proceeded to sequence my lands terribly, use wastelands when I shouldn't have and not use them when I should have, and long story short I just ended up with basically no mana to work with. Game 2 my opponent had a great hand and my hand was mediocre, and his answers just happened to line up perfectly with what I had. Frustrating loss.
Round 6: Jeskai Stoneblade 0-2 Loss
So this match was admittedly pretty tilting. As I sat down across from my opponent, he acknowledged that he knew what I was on and went on and on about how this was an auto loss for him, how there was no way he could win this matchup, and congratulating me for my win. I told him that he shouldn't speak so soon and that he was putting the jinx on me, but he insisted. So at this point, I assume it's storm, so I mulligan a fine 7 in order to find a t1 chalice 6 card hand with far less pressure. This got me killed game 1 as turn 3 batterskull on the play beat me to death while I hardcore flooded out. Game 2 I had double t1 mimic into turn 2 Jitte, which played right in to the engineered explosives on 2 he played that turn. after blowing up the world, he proceeded to blood moon and kill me with snaps and true-names. He kept apologizing profusely for having talked so much about losing beforehand, he clearly had not played the matchup enough and didn't realize it wasn't nearly as bad as he thought.
Anyway, I know I'm new to the deck so much of this is probably obvious to a lot of you, but here were my lessons from the day:
1. Endbringer is way better than I gave it credit for, I definitely want a second one (at least) somewhere in the 75. Card just does so many good things, not the least of which is clearing through baleful strix against Pile.
2. The deck really wants Mishra's factory. I ended up playing without them because A.) I couldn't find any in time for the event and B.) I had no idea what lands to take out for them. But every time I flooded I found myself wishing that any of those lands could attack. Suggestions on what lands to swap for factories are welcome!
3. Ulamog is 100% unplayable in this version of the deck. I thought that would be the case going in, but now I know for sure.
4. I found myself siding in All is Dust a lot. I think I want another one somewhere in the 75.
5. Warping Wail is insane when it's good, and really mediocre when it's not. I gotta work out how many I want main/side/total
6. I'm intrigued by the idea of running some amount of Oblivion Sower/Grim Monolith to play around Blood Moon. Has anyone had any experience playing with those?
7. While having the Thorns in the main threw some people off, it never felt devastating except in matches where I was already heavily favored (i.e. storm) and I sided them out quite a bit over the course of the day. They're going back to the sideboard, and I may cut them entirely to play around with some of the other options. We'll see.
Anyway, let me know your thoughts on the list and any advice is appreciated!
Hey, nice report and good job, even if you fizzled there in the later rounds, its nice that you recognized some missteps in your play and where you can tighten it up. Blade decks are pretty hard, ive found, so your opponent's comments in your round 6 confuses me, its certainly not a bye for Eldrazi. Surprisingly, a Batterskull can be unbeatable for Eldrazi unless you get multiple Smashers or an Endbringer, which is easiser said then done as sometimes SFM decks play Wastelands, Back to Basics, or Blood Moon. SFM is very good vs Eldrazi, sometimes the matchups come down to who gets a Jitte first, and they are much more likely to find one. Equipment in this format is amazing, when will people finally fully accept this?
I dont think Thorns needs to be in the maindeck. Most lists are playing 3-4 in the side, which opens up room for more spells, or faster starts with Spirit Guide. Personally, I think not playing SSG is a mistake. Powering out a T1 Chalice on the play can be that important, or getting a TKS through a Daze equally important. Hell, even a T1 Reshaper can be very difficult for a lot of decks and can easily do 6-9 damage before they finally kill it and draw you something. So, if you move Thorns to the side you can get rid of things like the extra Dismember, Ulamog, and Orb.
1. Endbringer is way better than I gave it credit for, I definitely want a second one (at least) somewhere in the 75. Card just does so many good things, not the least of which is clearing through baleful strix against Pile.
I agree with this. Untapping with an Endbringer is usually game over. If your opponent has exhausted their removal on Reshapers, TKS, and Smasher, than Endbringer closes the game fast. Most lists play 2 main that you side out vs decks like Delver, where he is unlikely to ever be cast through Wastelands, or will be too late to make a big impact.
2. The deck really wants Mishra's factory. I ended up playing without them because A.) I couldn't find any in time for the event and B.) I had no idea what lands to take out for them. But every time I flooded I found myself wishing that any of those lands could attack. Suggestions on what lands to swap for factories are welcome!
I also agree with this, too, and right now i'm playing 2, but i wish i could fit in a 3rd. Space for utility lands is at a premium, though. I'm doing 1 Karakas, 1 Urborg, 4 Caverns, 2 Factories, and 3 Wastelands... and then 14 sol lands. Karakas (which would probably be the cut) has saved my ass so many times, that i'm having a hard time cutting it.
3. Ulamog is 100% unplayable in this version of the deck. I thought that would be the case going in, but now I know for sure.
Again, yes. This deck is an aggro deck that can be efficiently run on 2 or 3 lands, if they are sol lands. Which means, you want the rest of your lands to do powerful things like attack (Factory), kill their lands (Wasteland), or make more threats (Cavern). Its hard enough for this deck to get the mana to activate Eye, let alone cast an Ulamog. Definitely cut Ulamog if you stick with colorless aggro. The slightly bigger Eldrazi Post version of the deck can get more mana more easily, but then they dont run cards like Cavern, which seems insane to me in a Force of Will format.
4. I found myself siding in All is Dust a lot. I think I want another one somewhere in the 75.
I'm playing 1 right now in the side and i struggle with adding another. What matchups do you like it in? Grixis and BUG Delver make it too hard to get to 7 mana, and then even if you do its easily counterable. Pile doesnt have enough to kill with a sweeper and the same for Miracles. Its obviously shit vs combo, too. When is All is Dust good? Even though i side out Endbringers vs Delver, i'll admit i reluctantly add in All is Dust. If you happen to be in a bad spot and are not Wastelanded too much, it can save you, but i'm not sure i want my hand gunked up with too many.
5. Warping Wail is insane when it's good, and really mediocre when it's not. I gotta work out how many I want main/side/total
Im also on the fence of cutting this card. It feels too reactive for such a proactive aggro deck, but it is also so flexible. I mostly play it to kill Delvers and DRS, while also being ramp in a pinch. I dont think i've countered something like a Show and Tell or Infernal Tutor with this card in a long long time.
6. I'm intrigued by the idea of running some amount of Oblivion Sower/Grim Monolith to play around Blood Moon. Has anyone had any experience playing with those?
I havent played the Monolith version, but i've been jamming a few Sowers in the side recently and i really like the card. Versus decks like Pile or Miracles, its another big threat they have to deal with that also ramps you to Eye mana, which those decks cannot beat an active Eye. I also like Sower in the mirror where you need a creature with a big butt that can block or attack through Smashers. As you pointed out, Sower is good vs Blood Moon decks. Ive somehow beaten Mono Red Prison the last few times ive played it solely because i can side out Reshapers and Endbringers to bring in Sowers, and other junk. Now, the only cards i have that need colorless mana are TKS and Smasher (both of which are un-cuttable in any matchup), so if they become uncastable you have Mimics, Endless Ones, Sowers, Ballista, and Spirit Guides to beat face through a Blood Moon.
7. While having the Thorns in the main threw some people off, it never felt devastating except in matches where I was already heavily favored (i.e. storm) and I sided them out quite a bit over the course of the day. They're going back to the sideboard, and I may cut them entirely to play around with some of the other options. We'll see.
Agreed, see above. However, i wouldnt cut them entirely. It obviously makes Storm practically un-losable, but also is very good vs Miracles and Pile, which are popular online, but maybe not in your meta.
I think all in all you identified a lot about the deck for being new to it, so kudos on that. I wholeheartedly believe that Colorless Aggro Eldrazi is a top tier deck. It has all the tools to beat anything and does some truly busted stuff; TKS and Smasher are ridiculous magic cards. The deck simply isnt as consistent as blue decks and can have some pretty bad opening hands, but thats what you have to live with, because sometimes you draw hand after hand that feel unbeatable, and often are!
EDIT: Here is my list for reference: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/915894#online I got 9th place with it in the Legacy Challenge online this past week, weep womp, but then also have had some 5-0's in online leagues with it.
As an experiment, Ive cut the Pithing Needle/Spyglass slot in the side to see if i would miss it, and i really havent... too much. To me, Spyglass seems perfect for the Eldrazi Post version that needs protection from Wastelands or cards that will hinder its longer game plan. Colorless Aggro, in contrast, doesnt want a long game, so hopefully a card like Thought-Knot Seer should be good enough to buy you the time you need to get there. At least, thats my theory.
Last edited by LewisCBR; 02-01-2018 at 01:37 PM.
So, the two big ones were UWR Blade and Pile. Pile in particular is such a grindy deck that slowly clutters the board with deathrites, strix, Jaces, etc. that slamming and resolving a late-game, top-decked AiD just seems like it's game over for them. UWR it mostly felt like a clean out to Blood Moon post-board that also deals with TNN. Admittedly, I played both of those decks twice at the event so maybe that's why it felt like I wanted to side it in a lot, but it did seem like it would be good in both of those matches.4. I found myself siding in All is Dust a lot. I think I want another one somewhere in the 75.
I'm playing 1 right now in the side and i struggle with adding another. What matchups do you like it in?
Totally agree about your notes on Batterskull being unbeatable sometimes. In the match I 0-2'd, it came down and I suddenly found myself counting my outs and there weren't a lot of them. I'll definitely be adopting something very similar to your list and giving it a spin. It'll be a while as Legacy events here in the south tend to be few and far in between, but as soon as I get a chance to play again I will post a report.
I suppose that is true versus Pile, All is Dust can pull you back in from an early Jace or a gunked up board. Their best draws will be removal, removal, removal, into Jace. But, if they miss their Jace and start durdling around, you can get Eye active and they have a hard time beating that. Its real nice to know you dont have to worry about land destruction from that deck.
I feel like the best way to beat Blade, like most decks, is to tempo them out with early pressure. If you can lock out Swords with a Chalice, drop a few threats, then Dismember or Ratchet Bomb their Batterskull (Bomb on zero to kill the Germ... but also your Chalice, unfortunately) you usually win before they can get BSkull back online. If it does get to be a long game, Endbringer can really do work.
Glad you had a good experience with the deck, though, and i look forward to your next report!
First time posting on this site - I ported my deck over from Modern because I'm tired of the format and Legacy allows me to do broken things.
Anyone try running less lands? I found myself getting flooded all the time earlier with the deck. I've cut 2 Cavern of Souls but haven't tested it yet.
Creatures (29)
2 Walking Ballista
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Endbringer
Spells (8)
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Dismember
Lands (23)
1 Karakas
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Mishra's Factory
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
Sideboard (15)
1 Karakas
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Warping Wail
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Leyline of the Void
2 All Is Dust
I think 25 is the accepted number of lands. This article breaks down land drop math and how a 25 land deck is more likely to hit their land drops, which is pretty crucial for this deck. The creatures/spells in this deck are so good, that its more important to hit your lands and have a decent curve. I havent tried being greedy with the manabase, because its amazing how often you still get choked on lands, eveb with 25 and some number of SSG's.
https://www.channelfireball.com/arti...ur-land-drops/
Thanks for the article, I will give it a read.
Anyone have a basic MU analysis of the current meta thinking about switching back, haven't played the deck in over 1 year, was very active with Noloam for those who remember.
Quoting myself here but I didn't notice any issues on only 23 land when playing the deck this week.
Well, math says you'll eventually start missing your 3rd land drop far more than i am comfortable with in a deck that wants to hit the first 3 as often as possible. Even not counting Wasetlands, i'm on the opposite side and am astounded by how often i get land choked in a deck with 25 lands and 3 SSG's. Your experiences seem to be the opposite, somehow.
Considering we run a Legendary Land and goofy lands like City of Traitors, 25 isn't the real count, anyways, but its hard to factor that stuff in. The fact that the flex lands are supposed to provide extra utility (Factories and Wastelands) is supposed to help safeguard against flooding.
Welcome back to the thread Darkness! I noticed you dropped off when Top got banned and Eldrazi saw less play. Your SB guide is the closest thing I've seen to a MU analysis.
I'm playing a pretty stock list with a few exceptions. For meta purposes I play 2 Karakas main and 1 SB for the Marit Lages, Thalias, and Leovolds. Anything less than 4 wastelands seems wrong to me since it tends to just win you the game when you're opponent is struggling with mana. It's also a way of dealing with dark depths which is every other deck these days (also why I'm playing the newly printed spyglass)
Walking Ballista is also a new addition since you left and many are playing it as a warping wail replacement; so much so I've heard that it's strictly better than wail. I still really like wail since it's better than ballista when you're
1)Shooting down a deathrite with only two mana
2)Not telegraphing your ability to kill their creature
3)Countering natural order, gsz, infernal tutor, terminus (notice how all of these are the best spells against eldrazi)
4) and while it doesn't come up too often, ramping into smasher mana.
Moving to my sideboard I personally never liked siding thorns vs. 4/C or Grixis, but a single 3sphere feel really nice in those matchups. It also comes in vs elves. Null Rod is a new addition for me, but it's great in so many matchups including storm, DnT, Steel Stompy, stoneblade, 12post/MUD and other jank.
I'd suggest reading lewisCBRs threads since he probably jams more games than anyone else here.
25 LANDS
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
2 Karakas
1 Mishra's Factory
26 CREATURES
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer
4 Matter Reshaper
2 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Walking Ballista
3 INSTANTS and SORC.
2 Dismember
1 Warping Wail
9 OTHER SPELLS
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Trinisphere
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Null Rod
2 Warping Wail
1 Karakas
I'm planning on trading BR Reanimator to the friend who I sold Eldrazi too. I'm currently on the list in my Signature and it seems more refined than when noloam and I were working on evolving the deck. I have tested a bit and it seems strong which is surprising considering miracles is gone, I love the edition to Walking Ballista so far and I'm positive 3 City's is correct over the two I played last year. I quit mainly due to the presence of Shardless BUG which was the decks second worst match up at the time. Since Shardless got pushed out by Czech Pile I think the deck has much better MU even with Miracles being hit with the Axe.I will get the deck on Paper at SCG Worcester.
Finally, expect an update to the sideboarding guide with my 75 within a month or so. If anyone wants in on this project I would love to collaborate together. PM me for more info.
Really looking for it. NIce idea. Thanks in advance for proposing this future sideboard guide.
I'm certainly not saying it is the way to go and I definitely need to get more testing in. I've only played around a half dozen games.
Step into my office.
I play 3 Monolith, 4 Oblivion Sowers and 1 Ulamog (basically shaved the endless ones and equipment), and i find it amazing. Sometimes you will get stuck with a bunch of big things in your hand, but that's the price of doing business. You are so much better in the long game, you have inevitability against almost anything (almost anything). You still have the mimics, reshapers, tks and smashers to do the eldrazi thing, but sometimes you just go bigger if it doesn't get the job done.
I might agree with you that Ulamog is unplayable without Grim Monoliths and Oblivion Sowers. With them, it becomes crucial and will win you games.
I would shave on ratchet bombs, and maybe the winter orb (it's cute but meh), to go up to 3 All is Dust. The card really is unbelievable.
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