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Thread: [DTB] Eldrazi Stompy

  1. #21
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    Re: [DTB] Eldrazi Stompy/Shops

    Was it really necessary to kill the old thread and thus, all current discussion? I would also cut the "/Shops" part from the title - barely anybody has called the deck Shops before. "Eldrazi Stompy" is the most common name.
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  2. #22
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    Re: [DTB] Eldrazi Stompy/Shops

    It's unproductive to have two threads on the same topic active. This is the new home for discussion to migrate to.
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  3. #23
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    Re: [DTB] Eldrazi Stompy/Shops

    We did it! Started from the bottom, now we here. High fives all around for breaking the deck.

    Now that we're officially a DTB, I think it's past time we start figuring out how other decks are going to be attacking us, and prepare for that accordingly. I mentioned a bit of this on the last thread. World Breaker and All is Dust seem like the best options, although I'm concerned that All is Dust can't touch a Bridge. Are there any other options?

    If not, World Breaker becomes a de facto inclusion in most decks, I think. Now, including a green card means we'll need more green sources to support it. This raises two questions: 1, how many sources are needed, and 2, what sources do we use? Painlands leap immediately to mind - but that begs a second color. So which is the second color? Do we even bother with one?

    Personally I believe these two lines of thought lead naturally to Barook's list or something like it, so that's what I'll probably be gravitating towards. Karakas is already in the deck (well, mine, anyway), and Eldrazi Displacer is an incredibly powerful card, so GW looks like the strongest combination right off the bat.

    I could also see a GB version with Urborgs and guys like Wasteland Strangler in a more creature-heavy metagame. GB would have the added advantage of being able to pay actual black mana for Dismembers and could play a card like Leyline of the Void with more confidence, knowing it could be hardcast. This version looks strong, too.

    I've seen people attempting RG versions with Grove of the Burnwillows and Punishing Fire, but I sort of don't get Punishing Fire in this deck. It doesn't seem like it's what you really want to be doing. I suppose the RG version would give you some extra game against Grixis Delver, but Punishing Fire feels kinda bad against a Goyf. I also don't think the Grixis Delver matchup needs any help.

    Quick question for those of you testing the green versions, have any of you tried Awakening Zone or From Beyond? They don't get to use Temples or Eyes for double mana, but they would go a long way to offsetting Wastelands and Blood Moons.
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  4. #24
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    Re: [DTB] Eldrazi Stompy/Shops

    Quote Originally Posted by ZEROorDIE View Post
    Really, other than a couple rogue brewers, it's a colorless deck and the list is pretty set outside of a few flex slots which should all be determined based on your meta.
    .
    I don't know if the stock list is colorless though: For example, it is widely thought that worldbreaker is the correct choice. At the same time their is (or was?) debate between the percentage of of worldbreaker/endbringer you play MD, and if you play Worldbreaker - if you should play any conduits of ruin. I think there is still great variety between the builds. We are also still debating how many city/eyes/and what, if any, accel to run.

    Edit: From the previous thread I threw out this list which I think covers all the accepted cards and choices:

    6-8 Sol Lands (Ancient Tomb/City of Traitors/Crystal Vein)
    0- 8 Eldrazi Lands (Eldrazi Temple/Eye of Ugin)*
    4 Cavern of Souls
    5-11 Other Lands (Most common additional lands are Wasteland, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Mishra's Factory)
    0-8 Mana Accel (Mox Diamond, Mana Rocks, Spirit Guides, Grim Monolith, Lotus Petal)*
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3-4 Other Lock Pieces (Trinisphere/Thorn of Amethyst)
    4-8 "Removal" (Warping Wail/Jitte/Dismember/All is Dust)**
    4 Thought-Knot Seer
    4 Reality Smasher
    0-4 Legendary Creature Control (Endbringer/Karakas)***
    0-4 Phyrexian Revoker
    0-8 "Small Eldrazi Option" (Eldrazi Mimic/Endless One)
    0-6 "Mid Size Option" (Matter Reshaper/Metamorph)
    0-3 "White Splash Option (Eldrazi Displacer)
    0-2 "Problematic non-creature permanent removal Option" (World Breaker/Ugin/Eldrazi Titans)***
    *Options between Eldrazi Lands and Mana Accel is about whether to focus on increasing Chalice @ 1 turn 1 chances or having a larger chance for TKS turn 2. The two options are inherently at odds. Some builds may try running a full set of both, but this may make the deck's threat count too low.
    ** If you have 2 or more dismembers you should think about include jitte so as to have some life gain.
    *** In these two options are the "Top End" of the deck - it is recommended that you run at least 2-3 "Top End Cards". 4 may be too much. Additionally Conduit of Ruin may replace 1-2 Worldbreaker if you are running 2-3.

    Edit 2: I believe "Midsize option" (I.e. running Reshaper) to be the wrong choice - but I do like the idea of finding space for 1-2 Metamorph in a GW shell.

  5. #25

    Re: [DTB] Eldrazi Stompy/Shops

    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    I don't know if the stock list is colorless though: For example, it is widely thought that worldbreaker is the correct choice. At the same time their is (or was?) debate between the percentage of of worldbreaker/endbringer you play MD, and if you play Worldbreaker - if you should play any conduits of ruin. I think there is still great variety between the builds. We are also still debating how many city/eyes/and what, if any, accel to run.
    The stock list is definitely colorless. Random decklists posted here aren't data points; the decks that post results in paper tournaments and on Magic Online are what matter.

    For instance, if you just look at mtggoldfish data, you will find that by far the most successful build of the deck is (a) colorless, (b) runs 4 Matter Reshaper, (c) doesn't run World Breaker.

    My suggestion if Bridge, Moat, etc. become popular is not to play World Breaker or whatever, but rather to just play a different deck. Eldrazi is really a metagame deck, so if people start to hate it out severely, put this thing down. Another thing is that the matchups against things like Lands and 4-Color Loam are not good, so if the meta gravitates towards these big fair decks where Chalice is bad, you also need to put this thing down. Eldrazi was build to prey on a meta dominated by Miracles, Storm, and Delver (i.e. the pre-OGW meta).

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    Re: [DTB] Eldrazi Stompy/Shops

    Chalice is strong against Lands, you just put it on Two and then pressure us. When can of course still crop rotate, but when you leave me with a choice of "Fetch Maze or die" then Rotation is only so useful.
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  7. #27
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    Re: [DTB] Eldrazi Stompy/Shops

    Quote Originally Posted by iostream View Post

    My suggestion if Bridge, Moat, etc. become popular is not to play World Breaker or whatever, but rather to just play a different deck. Eldrazi is really a metagame deck, so if people start to hate it out severely, put this thing down. Another thing is that the matchups against things like Lands and 4-Color Loam are not good, so if the meta gravitates towards these big fair decks where Chalice is bad, you also need to put this thing down. Eldrazi was build to prey on a meta dominated by Miracles, Storm, and Delver (i.e. the pre-OGW meta).
    I think it is unlikely that Bridge, Moat, Humility, Moon etc. become common enough to actually shut this deck out of the meta. Legacy players are generally too set in their ways to adjust much to the meta and most people that play cantrip cartel decks aren't going to be willing to switch to the prison strategies that best use those cards. Miracles playing a one-of Moat in the board isn't particularly relevant in the grand scheme of things. If people show up with Imperial Painter or Moat Stompy or Stax that is relevant but those decks are rare, and even if people have the cards many don't like playing those strategies. I also think a more resilient green splash is worth developing if that ever becomes a problem. Switching decks is certainly the easiest way to solve the problem but I'm not sure it will even be necessary if the splash version is perfected to a reasonable extent.
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  8. #28
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    Re: [DTB] Eldrazi Stompy/Shops

    I'm going to do a little bit of tinkering in-thread because it'll look suspicious if I'm working with a notebook at work.

    My goal here is to brew up a very slight GW splash. Unfortunately, this means cutting Wasteland. I dislike this, but I think the deck may ultimately be better off.

    4 Chalice of the Void
    2 Thorn of Amethyst
    3 Dismember
    2 Warping Wail

    4 Reality Smasher
    4 Thought-Knot Seer
    4 Eldrazi Mimic
    3 Matter Reshaper
    3 Eldrazi Displacer
    2 World Breaker
    1 Conduit of Ruin

    3 Elvish Spirit Guide
    2 Talisman of Unity

    3 City of Traitors
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Eldrazi Temple
    3 Eye of Ugin
    4 Cavern of Souls
    2 Karakas
    3 Brushland

    //Sideboard
    2 Winter Orb
    1 ____________
    3 Pithing Needle
    2 Sphere of Resistance
    2 Faerie Macabre
    1 Dismember
    1 Warping Wail
    2 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Karakas

    Talisman over Mox Diamond seems weird, but Talisman does a better job protecting against Wasteland and Blood Moon.

    Edit: after some consideration, I don't think I want Tsabo's Web. It comes in for matchups where I probably want Karakas, and I don't want to shut down my own Karakas. So I have an empty slot for Lands hate. Could be either a third Winter Orb or a third Faerie Macabre, or another card I haven't considered. Open to suggestions.

    What do you guys think of this list? I kind of like it. I'm torn between 3/3 City/Brushland and 2/4. The colored mana source counts are based on this article. Sideboard is a draft, but without Wasteland, I want as many weapons as I can reasonably afford against Lands.

    Edit to add:
    Quote Originally Posted by iostream View Post
    My suggestion if Bridge, Moat, etc. become popular is not to play World Breaker or whatever, but rather to just play a different deck. Eldrazi is really a metagame deck, so if people start to hate it out severely, put this thing down. Another thing is that the matchups against things like Lands and 4-Color Loam are not good, so if the meta gravitates towards these big fair decks where Chalice is bad, you also need to put this thing down. Eldrazi was build to prey on a meta dominated by Miracles, Storm, and Delver (i.e. the pre-OGW meta).
    I agree that Eldrazi is a metagame deck, but disagree that it cannot adapt to a different meta. "Play a different deck" is the conclusion you come to after you've tested and eliminated other options, but it doesn't sound like you've done that yet, and I don't think the community has, either. Considering the success Barook has had with his GW build, I think it's a mistake to assume the World Breaker build is a nonstarter.

    I think people have come to the conclusion that the colorless deck can't beat something like Moat or Moon or Bridge, and the GW build is one step ahead of that plan while still retaining the core strength the purely colorless build has. In this way, the GW build is the next level of the Eldrazi deck. Maybe everyone starts playing 4x Wasteland main and the green decks play maindeck LFTL, well in that world you're right, I wouldn't want to be playing Eldrazi. But that's not the current world. People are adjusting to the deck by jamming 1-2 silver bullets in their sideboard, and World Breaker answers those silver bullets. It's worth testing.
    Last edited by Delvis; 03-16-2016 at 01:33 PM.
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  9. #29
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    Re: [DTB] Eldrazi Stompy/Shops

    Quote Originally Posted by iostream View Post
    For instance, if you just look at mtggoldfish data, you will find that by far the most successful build of the deck is (a) colorless, (b) runs 4 Matter Reshaper, (c) doesn't run World Breaker.
    Most people also follow a herd mentality and just take whatever works. There's no guarantee that a splash build couldn't become the better version once all kinks are worked out.

    @Delvis: Do NOT run Matter Reshaper before you run a full playet of Displacer. Full stop. It is that good in many match-ups.

    Also, after playing with Talisman for a while, I think it's a trap. Yes, tri-mana color fixing is nice, especially under a Blood Moon, but the lost speed compared to other "free" accelerants will ultimatively bite you. I had to learn the hard way with my original approach that speed is king.

    I can't form a solid opinion on my current Mox/Lotus Petal yet (so far, it looks pretty good), but I think dipping deep enough into white to run non-Eldrazi SB hate is worth it. RiP is an absolute bomb and so is Containment Priest - both could justify going deep with white. My SFM package is going to playtested more starting this weekend to figure out if it's good enough, too.

    I also wouldn't go overboard with the Lands hate. It's a bad match-up and there's only so much you can do before neglecting other important match-ups.
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  10. #30
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    Re: [DTB] Eldrazi Stompy/Shops

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Also, after playing with Talisman for a while, I think it's a trap. Yes, tri-mana color fixing is nice, especially under a Blood Moon, but the lost speed compared to other "free" accelerants will ultimatively bite you. I had to learn the hard way with my original approach that speed is king.
    My concern is that playing World Breaker and Conduit pushes you towards being more mana-hungry, thus making you weaker to Wastelands. Mox does basically nothing to protect you from Wasteland, because you have to pitch a land to play it so you're not actually profiting mana, and in some cases you're actually losing on mana because you have to pitch something like Ancient Tomb or Eldrazi Temple.

    If Talisman is bad, as you say, I would probably just replace it with a 4th ESG and a Gemstone Caverns. I may do this anyway, because that would let me play a Null Rod in that last slot. It's just weird to me. It seems like we should be playing a mana base that provides some resiliency against Blood Moon, since we're playing the GW build to gain resiliency against lock cards like that.
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  11. #31
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    Re: [DTB] Eldrazi Stompy/Shops

    Quote Originally Posted by Delvis View Post
    If Talisman is bad, as you say, I would probably just replace it with a 4th ESG and a Gemstone Caverns. I may do this anyway, because that would let me play a Null Rod in that last slot. It's just weird to me. It seems like we should be playing a mana base that provides some resiliency against Blood Moon, since we're playing the GW build to gain resiliency against lock cards like that.
    Each to their own. I'm pretty deep in white right now, so I need an ample amount of actual white sources to support my white SB bombs. Otherwise, I would probably run ESG in the Lotus Petal spots since the deck has actual ways to hardcast it. You certainly have a point about Mox. For this very reason, I would never run more than two copies max.

    Be aware that you're cutting another two white sources this way which will cut into the effectiveness of Displacer. And you do want to run a full playset of it.
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  12. #32

    Re: [DTB] Eldrazi Stompy/Shops

    For those not running or minimally running artifact abilities, i recommend some Null Rods as a SB card.

  13. #33

    Re: [DTB] Eldrazi Stompy/Shops

    being mana not an issue here if you don't play Endbringer/Displacer, Damping Matrix so much better

  14. #34
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    Re: [DTB] Eldrazi Stompy/Shops

    Quote Originally Posted by Poron View Post
    being mana not an issue here if you don't play Endbringer/Displacer, Damping Matrix so much better
    The key difference being that Null Rod shuts down mana abilities, which is huge. Null Rod also can be played turn 1 off of Tomb or City, or with a Spirit Guide of some kind. This means Null Rod is live against Storm and Dredge, where Damping Matrix is not.
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  15. #35

    Re: [DTB] Eldrazi Stompy/Shops

    I've been playing a white/colorless (Whidrazi) build since the deck was beginning to be broken. I have a solid run of several 3-2s and a 4-1 in leagues so far which makes this feel close. I don't have a 2-3 or worse yet. I never feel very behind in many match-ups. Shardless isn't great and Reanimator always seems to go off before I can get going, but it has been a fun deck to play. I guess it's natural for me to enjoy something that does well against Miracles since I am not fond of that strategy. The problem that I am running into is that the deck feels like a Modern deck with Legacy power. What I mean is that it seems like the success in any particular tourney is match-up dependent and we are playing it in a format where the bombs against us can commonly be main deck (Opposing Watelands, for instance). A deck like Shardless BUG or Delver can sit down and be reasonably confident that their game plan can happen in any match. I don't find this to be as true for the Eldrazi Stompy deck, but I also find it true that the power level is high enough that any good pilot can get this thing to .500 and above (After all, I am, and I don't consider myself to be a top-notch player) and I am sure that it still will put up results because of that.

    Adding white has added a lot of those catch-all answers to a lot of problems. I still haven't figured out the right amount of Warping Wails to have in the main deck and I am not totally sure on the mana base or the whole sideboard. I've only been back into the game for three years, so it's been fun to follow a deck from inception for the first time and playing big dudes in unfair time frames or for unfair costs is really dumb and fun. Anyway, if interested, this is what I am working with now:

    Main:
    3 Eldrazi Displacer
    4 Thought-Knot Seer
    4 Reality Smasher
    4 Matter Reshaper
    4 Eldrazi Mimic
    2 Phyrexian Revoker
    2 Endbringer
    1 Void Winnower

    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Eye of Ugin
    4 Eldrazi Temple
    4 Wasteland
    3 Cavern of Souls
    2 City of Traitors
    2 Karakas
    2 Plains

    3 Talisman of Unity
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Warping Wail

    SB:
    2 Ratchet Bomb
    4 Leyline of the Void
    2 Disenchant
    1 Containment Priest
    2 Oblivion Ring
    2 Umezawa's Jitte
    2 Thorn of Amethyst

    I plan to add an Urborg and some Dismembers and a Metamorph for my next go-round. Mix up sideboard options again. Those Leylines used to be 2 Rest in Peace and 2 Oblivion Sowers I'm probably missing something to bring this together. I love World-Breaker, but I think I'd rather have the two mana option to destroy what it tends to destroy.

  16. #36
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    Re: [DTB] Eldrazi Stompy/Shops

    Quote Originally Posted by Polishguy00 View Post
    Adding white has added a lot of those catch-all answers to a lot of problems. I still haven't figured out the right amount of Warping Wails to have in the main deck and I am not totally sure on the mana base or the whole sideboard. I've only been back into the game for three years, so it's been fun to follow a deck from inception for the first time and playing big dudes in unfair time frames or for unfair costs is really dumb and fun. Anyway, if interested, this is what I am working with now:

    Main:
    3 Eldrazi Displacer
    4 Thought-Knot Seer
    4 Reality Smasher
    4 Matter Reshaper
    4 Eldrazi Mimic
    2 Phyrexian Revoker
    2 Endbringer
    1 Void Winnower

    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Eye of Ugin
    4 Eldrazi Temple
    4 Wasteland
    3 Cavern of Souls
    2 City of Traitors
    2 Karakas
    2 Plains

    3 Talisman of Unity
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Warping Wail

    SB:
    2 Ratchet Bomb
    4 Leyline of the Void
    2 Disenchant
    1 Containment Priest
    2 Oblivion Ring
    2 Umezawa's Jitte
    2 Thorn of Amethyst

    I plan to add an Urborg and some Dismembers and a Metamorph for my next go-round. Mix up sideboard options again. Those Leylines used to be 2 Rest in Peace and 2 Oblivion Sowers I'm probably missing something to bring this together. I love World-Breaker, but I think I'd rather have the two mana option to destroy what it tends to destroy.
    You can't support RiP with only 7 white sources, even less with three being Talisman. That's why it probably didn't work for you. I also don't understand why you run a second Plains over a 4th Cavern.
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  17. #37
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    Re: [DTB] Eldrazi Stompy/Shops

    @Polishguy, you may want to consider Ghost Quarter over Wasteland in that build. I know that sounds weird, but hear me out. We're not really playing Wasteland for mana denial, it's more of a tool to kill problem lands like Mutavault, Maze of Ith, Tabernacle, Dark Depths, etc. Playing Ghost Quarter would give you the ability to sort of have a pseudo-fetch for your basic Plains, so you can turn on your Disenchants while not really losing any utility.

    This could also be an option for pure-colorless builds who want to play a single Wastes to fetch out with their Ghost Quarters in response to a Blood Moon or something. I'd be interested to hear others' opinions on this.
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  18. #38

    Re: [DTB] Eldrazi Stompy/Shops

    Having "Shops" in the deck name is absolutely retarded. The reason you call any deck a "Shops" deck is because, um, Mishra's Workshop is the most important card in that deck. No deck should have "Shops" in the title unless it is specifically running that land, imho.

    I don't know why this thread title wasn't just "[DTB] Eldrazi Stompy". Eldrazi Shops just sounds ridiculous.

  19. #39
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    Re: [DTB] Eldrazi Stompy/Shops

    Quote Originally Posted by MGB View Post
    Having "Shops" in the deck name is absolutely retarded. The reason you call any deck a "Shops" deck is because, um, Mishra's Workshop is the most important card in that deck. No deck should have "Shops" in the title unless it is specifically running that land, imho.

    I don't know why this thread title wasn't just "[DTB] Eldrazi Stompy". Eldrazi Shops just sounds ridiculous.
    I don't want to single you out, and I'm not talking specifically to you. I'm just quoting you so it's clear what I'm talking about.

    All the people bitching about the thread title need to relax. Jeez. Talk about nitpicking.

    Constructive criticism about the thread is good, so take a look at the primer and make suggestions if you want to help. But complaining that the title has an extra word in it is some serious Eternal-player elitism. There aren't any Workshops in this deck, true, but the lands we do play do a good imitation of it, and some builds play a combination of Phyrexian Revoker and equipment, which as I understand it brings it somewhat in line with how the Vintage Shops lists are built (just with Reality Smasher instead of Triskelion). But I'm not a Vintage player. And I don't think it would have mattered anyway; Holly could have titled it "Eldrazi Stompy" and there would probably be people complaining about it not being named "Colorless Eldrazi Stompy," and if Holly had named it that, there would probably be people complaining that their colored builds were being marginalized.

    You want to know what a great title would have been? "My Tentacle Romance." :P But that's just my opinion and I'm well aware I'm alone on that one (sadly, as I think it's a terrific name).

    So let's just be happy we made DTB in record time and keep improving the deck, eh?
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  20. #40
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    Re: [DTB] Eldrazi Stompy/Shops

    Quote Originally Posted by mgb View Post
    i don't know why this thread title wasn't just "[dtb] eldrazi stompy". Eldrazi shops just sounds ridiculous.
    qft

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