Thanks, ESG! You inspired me to pick up Eldrazi again, and I played it to a 2nd place finish for a Volcanic Island this past weekend. Here's a quick report I wrote up for my friends:Originally Posted by ESG
You have to go pretty deep if you're committing to a Dreadnought plan, but people forget that this card exists:
Game Hunters got 24 players today, so 5 rounds, cut to top 8.
I played Eldrazi, cutting all the removal for a playset each of Illusionary Mask and Phyrexian Dreadnought. I also didn't play Wasteland - have never liked it in the deck. List at the end.
In the swiss I played versus, in order: NicFit, UB Standstill, Grixis Delver, BR Reanimator, and Shardless - losing to Standstill and intentionally drawing with Shardless.
Round 1, my opening hand of the tournament was the turn-2 kill (Double Mimic into Dreadnought).
Landstill and I were the last to finish in round 2, he beat me 2-0. The games were petty awesome.
Chalices and Thorns did in the Delver player.
In game 2 vs reanimator (on the play) I kept a hand that went Thorn, Thorn, TKS, Smasher the first 4 turns. In game 3 I mulled to THREE and finally found a Leyline; he scooped. He had Reverent Silence in game 2, but took them out for game 3. :-p
Drew into 5th seed and faced Landstill again in the quarters. He never saw a Dreadnought in our swiss match, but they crushed him and exacted revenge in the playoffs.
I beat infect in the semis after dropping the first game. Walking Ballista was insane.
Turn-1 Thoughtseize wrecked me in both games of the finals after some sketchy keeps. Game 1 was a hand with turn-2 Smasher, Game 2 was turn-2 TKS, with the creature discarded both times.
A note on the list... The Mishra's Factories were a hold over from when I had Smugglers Copters. I cut the two copters for the 4th Mask and 3rd Elvish Spirit Guide after FNM. I meant to switch the Factories to Wastes (the basic) but forgot to.
Copter had a cool interaction with mask, being able to flip up the 2/2 at will. But wasn't good enough. And mask and spirit guide impressed at FNM. Also, Mask lets you cast Dreadnought through a Chalice on 1 (since it's CMC is 0 when played face-down). I also named Dreadnought with Cavern a few times to play him face-up through Chalice on 1.
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Endless One
4 Illusionary Mask
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
Sideboard:
3 All Is Dust
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Walking Ballista
Am I the only one who finds the amount of times you get manascrewed mind-boggling? I play 26 lands, and I have to mulllgan practically every match at least once because i get manascrewed. is this a general thing or am i just unlucky?
I picked up this deck after it seemed to fall out of favor. As a long time Metalworker player, I realized how inexpensive it would be to pivot into this build so I gave it a shot and I'm enjoying it. I think it has enough positive matchups to warrant play still.
My list is a little different, and has more of an agro stance. In the 3CM spot I'm running 4x Eldrazi Obligator instead of Matter Reshaper. I found Matte Reshaper underwhelming, and I like the way Obligator curves with the game state. Cast him for 3 to have a hasted 3 power. Cast him for 5 to have a hasted 3 power and remove a problematic blocker for a combat phase. Cast him for 5 with Ashnod's Altar and you can remove that problematic creature as well.
Ashnod's Altar is another unusual choice that I'm playtesting. In addition to the synergy with Eldrazi Obligator, with a Warping Wail in hand, it allows you to tap out each turn and just swing - and not worry about holding 2 mana to counter a Natural Order, Tendrils of Agony, Reanimate, etc. It also allows me to worry less about Blood Moon and run all non-basics.
Anyways, here's my list:
4 eldrazi mimic
4 reality smasher
4 thought-knot seer
4 eldrazi obligator
4 endless one
4 simian spirit guide
4 chalice of the void
4 warping wail
2 umezawa's jitte
2 ashnod's altar
4 ancient tomb
4 cavern of souls
3 city of traitors
4 eldrazi temple
3 eye of ugin
2 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4 sulfurous springs
I think a light splash is needed if the deck wants to improve and adapt to the metagame. Reshaper and SSG are underperforming and should be replaced, but there is no reasonable colorless alternative. For the same reason, Wasteland and Factory, while great cards per se, hold Eldrazi Stompy back from the main plain, which is to abuse the 8 extra dual lands to aggro. I think there is no problem to drop some 1-mana lands and add some color, especially because I've tried Displacer and I think it's seriously too good not to be played and deserves it's spot in the deck. Here are two starting points:
1. W Splash
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Wastelands
2 City of Traitors
2-3 Caves of Koilos
1 Karakas
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
3-4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Endbringer
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Dismember
2 Warping Wail/All is Dust
2. UW Splash
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Corrupted Crossroads
3 Adarkar Wastes
2 City of Traitors
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Endbringer
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Dismember
2 Warping Wail/All is Dust
The second one is very similar to an offbeat list who placed 2/151 in spain one year ago. I think Drowner of Hope is still too weak to mana denial and Endbringer is more versatile in the end.
Any thought to green splash for crucible man? Helps waste lock, and helps the mana which can be awkward when opponent gets a double waste draw. Also you get mox diamond which gives you some explosive draws.
I don't know. In theory, it looks pretty bad.
1. It's not colorless, so it doesn't trigger mimic.
2. It's not an eldrazi, so it would probably require some investment in the manabase, like calling "Naga" with cavern of souls, or cutting some lands in order to support the green splash with Bayou and/or Llanowar Wastes. And to be honest, the first land I would cut from the traditional colorless list is exactly Wasteland.
3. Green (and I mean, devoided green) offers pretty mediocre eldrazis: you just have some scion generators (e.g. Scion Summoner and Eyeless Watcher) and an overcosted permanent removal in World Breaker. All of these are inferior to the opportunities offered by splashing black (Wasteland Strangler, Bearer of Silence), red (Eldrazi Obligator), blue (Eldrazi Skyspawner, Drowner of Hope) and especially white (Eldrazi Displacer). Also, green offers less sideboard opportunities than any of the aforementioned. The splash would be exclusively for the naga cleric, and I don't think it's worth enough.
4. Its body is kinda tiny, it doesn't fly or trample: not really where we want to be. Also, creature is the most hatable supertype of the game since 1993, and this metagame is full of Lighning Bolts just as it was 1993. Why should you splash green when you can stay colorless and have Crucible of Worlds?
5. Even in the possibilty you can execute the Ramunap plan with success (e.g. chalice, then Ramunap Excavator, then recursive mana disruption), that's not really what a Stompy deck wants to be. Our plan is to stick a soft piece of lock which slows them down just enough for us to be able to drop unanswerable threats. There's no time for mana denial; in fact, my opinion is that Wasteland is the worst card of our manabase. Just look at other colored stompy decks: they don't play Wasteland. We can afford to do it because we have 8 extra sol lands, but full mana denial's not really our plan.
I think the right path is to focus on creatures. Matter Reshaper gets played because it's decent and it's the 6th best colorless eldrazi, but I don't think it's doing enough to be in the deck anymore. The first step to improve the deck is to splash a color and find a decent Eldrazi substitute for Reshaper. In order to do this, I think we have to drop some unnecessary lands (e.g. the ones which provide 1 mana) and play some colored ones. I have tested an UW list which is very similar the second list I posted above and I've had very convincing wins pre and post-side against Grixis Delver and Death and Taxes. I think it's well worth trying: the deck is stable (11 colored lands for 8-9 drops is ok) and it has powerful options you would not even dream of while playing the colorless list, like blocking delver, or combat tricks, or ETB shenanigans.
I'm surprised you say matter reshaper is not good anymore. Maybe it's just the online metagame, but it's been insane for me. Online there is a ton of 4c control, for which matter reshaper is one of the cards I want most; it absolutely hoses liliana and edict. I also have found it to play out better against delver than you might expect. The conventional list has been performing quite well.
Hello all, long time lurking...
Is this a sign of rebirth ?
For the reshaper, i think we don't have enough valuable targets (exept Lands ans Mimics).
We don't want Chalice, Endless One, Jitte is in SB now...
My 2 cts to Reshape ^^
It's not about the targets, it's about keeping up with cards despite losing a creature. Sometimes you get lucky and net a landdrop/creature/SB card but that's more of a bonus. You always want to draw Chalice, Endless one etc. so I don't understand why you list those as downsides.
Some of my friends sell records,
some of my friends sell drugs.
In fact, the trigger is the Value of the Reshaper for you (Free Draw and possible ETB). I understand and i am ok with you.
That i regreted in my previous post is an underoptimised trigger in the pack, That's all.
Reshaper never flips into anything good (except for the occasional Jitte and the fact that, iirc, you can flip a land without having to sac your city) and the grinding value provided by card advantage against a 2x Lilly in one deck in the whole format metagame is not enough to justify a 4-of in the build. I mean, I know Reshaper is a good card, but imho not good enough for a stompy deck.
Eldrazi Skyspawner is just as good against liliana, is good against edict, carries equipments better, trades with delver, resolves stall situations, fixes your mana, wakes you up in the morning with cuddles and kisses. It's the perfect girlfriend for TKS and Smasher.
Displacer, on the other hand, is just too strong.
I'm pretty sold on these two right now.
A Cavern of Souls without the uncounterability - I could see it replacing Painlands in colored Eldrazi lists.
I like it.
Not bad! However, consider that playing painlands and regular duals also gives you access to colored and non-eldrazi sideboard.
A Cavern of Souls without the uncounterability - I could see it replacing Painlands in colored Eldrazi lists.
I like it.
But then again, how often are you actually running colored non-Eldrazi cards? Even with regular mana lands, the low count of actual colored mana sources makes it rather iffy to cast them. Otherwise, I'd be rocking RIP and Containment Priest all day long.
With another playset of multicolor Eldrazi lands, we might have reached a critical mass now (Cavern, Crossroads, Territory) where it's feasible to go tri-color - Displacer, Skyspawner, then either black for Wasteland Strangler or Red for Obligator. Mox Diamond would probably be necessary to top it off since Lotus Petal isn't a reliable mana source.
It's exactly what i'm doing right now, 2 Priest and 2-3 Rip. Not really that iffy, I love it actually. One colored mana source is enough to push all my threats, and nobody actually choses to deny me colors, they still prefer to destroy 2 mana lands.
Unclaimed Territories does look really good. I'm most interested in running World Breaker on the top end of Colorless before going 3 color, but I could see Grixis Eldrazi being a thing with a more reliable manabase.
I would love for a tri-colored variant to be viable, but I recall CVM not doing so great with this deck at an SCG open last year. He used Aether Hub for his third tri-land; is Unclaimed Territory really that much better here?
On the other hand, with the Miracles change, the meta has shifted, so maybe it's worth a second look anyway?
I've seen people playing that thing and I can't help thinking it will sit in your hand uncastable in too many many matchups.
Always having access to permanent colored mana is better than having access to oneshot colored mana I guess. That's about it. It might matter a lot in longer games, which tend to happen because this metagame has plenty of tools to deal with eldrazi. Forgetting manabase, that list has various problems imho. Not playing Skyspawner is a mistake, definitely too strong especially with low land count and no SSG; Drowner is underwhelming if you don't have displacer in play; thorn with 9 other noncreature spells is kinda meh; also, not a fan of obligator. If a third color has to happen, I think it should really be black for Strangler, the first reason being it's ability triggers ETB and not when you cast it, making it really better with displacer.
Strangler sounds good, but how does the deck ensure to have exiled cards, owned by opponend, available?
You don't. Most decks do that on their own via drs/fow/scm/frog/moxes/guides. I bet one could play a couple stranglers and be ok with it. It's sketchy at its best, but I don't really think Obligator is gonna help more.
In alternative, there's Bearer of Silence, but that dude is as situational as Strangler, if not more, because pyromancer and mentor make tokens and D/T is full of trash creatures that can be sacked with little to no harm (moms/sfms that have been activated/recruiter...).
If I can add something to the discussion, this metagame is perfect to up our Warping Wail count up to 3/75 or even 4/75. Lot's of small threats and huge sorceries to counter, plus the occasional chumpblock on angler winning the game.
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