Dredge

[Obould]

Hi,

I have modified my deck a little and it feels definitely better. Ghoulsteed and skaab has done some heavy lifting with amalgams. This is slower than bloodghast version, but I just love the combo aspect of this deck.


20
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Blood Crypt
1 Godless Shrine
1 Stomping Ground
2 City of Brass
3 Forest
2 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Dakmor Salvage
1 Steam Vents
1 Watery Grave

1 Raven's Crime
4 Faithless Looting
4 Insolent Neonate
2 Lightning Axe
2 Tormenting Voice

3 Life from the Loam
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Grave-Troll

1 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
4 Prized Amalgam
3 Stitchwing Skaab
2 Ghoulsteed

3 Unburial Rites
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria


Sideboard:

3 Ray of Revelation
3 Ancient Grudge
1 Raven's Crime
3 Conflagrate
1 Grave Titan
1 Blazing Archon
1 Ashen Rider
2 Terastodon

Gitaxian probes has been sometimes great but sometimes discard outlet or dredger would have been better so I might change it. Any suggestions?

Edit: Replaced 4 gitaxian probes for 2 lightning axes and 2 tormenting voices.

[No_Life_No_Future]

I have also changed my list a little. Yesterday, my brother piloted this list (-1 dakmor +1 mountain) to a first place finish in a ~40 person tournament and I 4-1ed a competitive modern league on MTGO. The biggest changes I have made are to cut Izzet Charm from the deck completely and the addition of Street Wraith to the main. Street Wraith enables more turn 1 Amalgams and significantly speeds up the deck. It is better than Gitaxian Probe because it can be used in response to a Narcomoeba trigger to dredge into Amalgam and it is a creature for Gnaw to the Bone. I moved another Darkblast to the main. It is extremely good against infect and elves and it is an extra dredger adding consistency to the deck. I have been testing a single Conflagrate. I am not sold on it. It fills the same roll as Darkblast and gives you some additional reach, but it competes with Stitchwing Skaab for cards to discard and an extra Stitchwing Skaab or Street Wraith might just be better.


Modern Dredge:

4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Mana Confluence
4 Shivan Reef
3 Dakmor Salvage

4 Prized Amalgam
4 Narcomoeba
4 Bloodghast
2 Stitchwing Skaab

4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp

4 Insolent Neonate
4 Faithless Looting
4 Tome Scour

2 Darkblast
1 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Conflagrate
3 Street Wraith


Sideboard:

3 Ancient Grudge
3 Memory's Journey
3 Ray of Revelation
4 Lightning Axe
2 Gnaw to the Bone

[Phoenix Ignition]

I'll test your most recent list No_life, I'm interested in Modern dredge now that Insolent Neonate is a thing. Just finished off the cards I need for it.

What do you sideboard Memory's Journey against? And what would you normally take out first if you were going to sideboard in a random card?

[No_Life_No_Future]

The cards I would consider cutting for sideboard cards are:
2 Darkblast
1 Gnaw to the Bone
3 Streetwraith
1 Conflagrate
2 Stitchwing Skaab
1 Dakmor Salvage

The 1-3 Memory's journey come in against Goryo's Vengence Decks, Abzan Company, Lantern Control, Storm, Dredge, Gifts Ungiven and Snapcaster Mage. I keep in Street Wraith when I am trying to race them (Ex. Scapeshift, Boggles, Storm...), but I board them out when I have no shot at racing and need to play a more interactive game to win (Ex. Infect, Burn/Zoo...). Sometimes it is hard to know what form of graveyard hate your opponent will bring in. Most people don't play too many cages and often you can get enough creatures on the board to race a turn 2 Scavenging Ooze or Rest in Peace. As a general rule I would sideboard like this:

Burn/Zoo:
-3 Street Wraith
-2 Darkblast
-1 Conflagrate
+2 Gnaw to the Bone
+4 Lightning Axe

Affinity:
-3 Street Wraith
-2 Stitchwing Skaab
-1 Dakmor Sa
+3 Ancient Grudge
+4 Lightning Axe

Infect:
-3 Street Wraith
-1 Gnaw to the Bone
-2 Stitchwing
+4 Lightning Axe
+2 Ancient Grudge

Elves:
-3 Street Wraith
-1 Gnaw to the Bone
+4 Lightning Axe

Jund/Eldrazi:
-1 Gnaw to the Bone
-1 Street Wraith
-2 Darkblast
+4 Lightning Axe

Jeskai/UW control:
-1 Gnaw to the Bone
+1 Memory's Journey

Tron:
-2 Darkblast
-1 Gnaw to the Bone
+3 Ancient Grudge

Storm:
-2 Darkblast
-1 Gnaw to the Bone
-1 Stitchwing Skaab
+3 Ray of Revelation
+1 Memory's Journey

Abzan Company:
-3 Street Wraith
-1 Gnaw to the Bone
-1 Stitchwing Skaab
+4 Lightning Axe
+1 Memory's Journey

Scapeshift:
-2 Darkblast
+2 Gnaw to the Bone

Ad Nauseam:
-2 Darkblast
-1 Gnaw to the Bone
-2 Stitchwing Skaab
+2 Ancient Grudge
+3 Ray of Revelation

Lantern Control
-2 Darkblast
-1 Gnaw the the Bone
-1 Stitchwing Skaab
+3 Ancient Grudge
+1 Memory's Journey

Boggles:
-2 Darkblast
-2 Stitchwing Skaab
-1 Conlfagrate
+3 Ray of Revelation
+2 Gnaw to the Bone

Scapeshift/Valakut is probably the worst match-up I have encountered so far. They are usually faster than you and you have no way to interact with their strategy except to try and gain a bunch of life which usually isn't enough. I am glad you are picking up the deck. It is not easy to play and needs to mulligan its openers aggressively. The sequencing is very unforgiving, but there are many lines of play to choose and the deck really rewards tight play. Let me know what you think.

[dinosaurus]

Hi all,

My friend did well at GP Charlotte with the version we've been working on for a while:

http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/c...tte-2016-05-22

There is a lot in common with No_Life_No_Future's list, the main difference is that we play bridges and rally, and burning inquiry instead of street wraith, and loam instead of extra shivan reef.

We found loam and bridges to be excellent all weekend. Burning inquiry is so efficient when it works, but I'd also like to test street wraith more.

I like where this is going, comments are more than welcome!

NB: the main change we do in the 75 from charlotte if we had to play tomorrow would be to cut Leylines in the SB for a couple of memory's journey, as in No_Life_No_Future's list.

[Echelon]

I was surprised not to see any Street Wraiths in that list, perhaps instead of the Tome Scours. Admittedly, I'm not a Modern player.

[dinosaurus]

Tome scour are really not sexy, but they decrease the chance that you mulligan to oblivion considerably... They require nothing but a land to get going, and that's very appealing, even though the card is not great in a vacuum. This version of the deck can't afford not to play it.

[Echelon]

You have only 13 lands in your deck that can cast it. You could also switch them for more dredgers so you can adopt the DDD-start to jump start the deck.

[Phoenix Ignition]

No_Life, thanks for all the info, I took it with me to Modern tonight. I played the exact 75 you listed except -4 Shivan Reef + 3 Steam Vents +1 Mountain (didn't have the reefs). I won 3-0 against Grixis, Jund, and Jeskai control. Here are some thoughts, but they're only thoughts and not real statements because I really have only played 3 matches with this deck ever, barely having goldfished it before the tournament.

Steam Vents seem fine, but probably just slightly worse than Shivan Reef. I doubt you'd run into that specific change affecting the outcome of a match without playing a thousand games, but I'll probably slowly pick up the Reefs whenever I see one (they only had 1 at the shop) so I can free up my Steam Vents for other decks. Basic Mountain gave me the dream scenario of reanimating 3 Bloodghasts against UWR control when they Path'ed an Amalgam to win game 3, so that is definitely staying in, even if it's more likely I'd have already dredged it than not. I was actually very surprised how often I used up my Gemstone Mines and just mana in general, usually dealing myself like 8 over the course of the game just from City of Brass/Mana Confluence. I wouldn't want less than 3 Dakmor Salvages, and might even want 4. I dredged it so often just to trigger Bloodghast + Prized Amalgam that 4 might be correct, though Life from the Loam would also definitely help there.

I really liked the list, but here are some other cards that stick out to me that people have mentioned in this thread:

Street Wraith: I drew this card a few times but wasn't ever that happy with it. I definitely got awkward hands that couldn't discard a dredger ever, so having it in that case is obviously not good, but even when I did have a dredger I'd have preferred this to be something else. I'm going to try out Burning Inquiry in it's position, as I love the potential Hymn to Tourach on the opponent's starter hand, especially after they've tried to mulligan into their sideboard. They're both only really good if you have a dredger in the yard, but this deck so badly needs a discard outlet turn 1 that I'd keep a hand with BI and a couple dredgers but not a hand of SW and a couple dredgers. Also, against decks with stuff like Cryptic Command, I really wouldn't mind having these in just to screw up their long term plans. If they're trying to go Cryptic -> Snapcaster ->Cryptic as their long term gameplans, this helps to at least throw a wrench at them and see how they respond.

Tome Scour: Way better than I expected. Game 3 against jeskai control I mulliganed to 6 and kept a hand that had Tome Scour and no discard outlet, along with a couple dredgers, lightning axe, and a couple lands. The 5th card milled was a Stinkweed Imp so I ended up being just fine. I can definitely see how this card looks like garbage but turns out to be that half-eaten day-old donut when you're starving. I'll keep it in for my more rigorous playtesting coming up, but it's possible a split of Tome Scour/ Burning Inquiry might end up being better.

Darkblast/Conflagrate/Gnaw to the bone: Never really needed any of these against the matchups I played. Conflagrate is a nice safety blanket feeling until you realize you only ever have like 2-3 cards late game (Stitchwing Skaab and all), but it's possible that 2-3 damage is all you really need to get through (I kinda doubt it though). Darkblast would have been great against the matchups I dodged, affinity and infect, and even a tiny amount of dredge is sometimes useful so they stay in. I'm curious whether Lightning Axe would just be overall better in this maindeck slot though. Gnaw would gain a surprising amount of life so that stays too.

Stitchwing Skaab: This card is actually just insanely good. End of your opponent's turn you discard 2 dredgers to get an instant speed uncounterable 3/1 flier that also triggers your Amalgams? 2 seemed pretty good, might end up wanting 3 though. I used this ability very often and wasn't disappointed to dredge it.

Greater Gargadon: Out of all the cards that other lists run and this doesn't, I might want this one. It's a late game guarantee while protecting your stuff from exile, but more importantly letting you retrigger dead Amalgams with Bloodghast Landfall by sac'ing the Bloodghast and landfalling. You could sacrifice all your Amalgams and Bloodghasts 2nd main phase and drop a land to get them all back again while removing like 4 counters from GG. Definitely going to try to fit these in, but it's possible they end up being lackluster without Bridge from Belows.

Bridge from Below: I'm sad it isn't in the list. There were so many times where my creatures got bolted and I wanted a 2/2. I dunno, it's definitely possible that the list is better without them, I mean, I did win all my matches, but it just feels wrong. Either way I'll attempt to get some in there and probably fail to improve the deck.

Vengevine/Gravecrawler: I agree on not playing them. They either win in a devastating fashion or stare at you and not help, but more often than not it isn't the former. I tried really hard to break them in a similar deck, and this one just doesn't want/need that.

Life from the Loam: I think I'm putting 1 of these maindeck. I'm not 100% sure where yet but the more I think about it the more it'd have helped much more than Dakmor. Dakmor doesn't give you mana immediately so if you're at 2 and need 3 mana to cast something I'd rather have Life. It'll end up saving you more life by reusing Gemstone Mines, and also allow you to actually cast Golgari-Grave Troll late game (I only got to 5 mana once). I might put it in over the third Dakmor. Added bonus is you can actually fill your hand to blast them with a big Conflagrate.

Sideboard Notes:
Grixis could be placed in the Eldrazi/Jund area as you basically just want Lava Axes against them.
Jeskai control you should take out 2 Darkblast for Lava Axes as they hit colonnades and Izzet Staticaster (which is kind of a blowout)

Fun tournament facts:

• Every match went to game 3
• I mulliganed to oblivion and lost 2 of the 9 games I played
• Kalitas + Scooze aren't fast enough to stop Lightning Axe

[mistercakes]

been playing this list a bunch:

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/421907#paper

i think it's a little tricky to pilot with only 17 lands, but other than that it's been overall very good. shriekhorn over tome scour for the better mana has helped with taking too much damage or running out of gemstone mine counters too soon.

[CaptainTwiddle]

Thoughts on Tome Scour vs Thought Scour? I see that most of the established lists are running Tome Scour. I understand that it's more powerful on turn 1-2, as it dumps a greater number of cards into the yard. However, Thought Scour seems like it has some added utility for other points in the game. The fact that it is an instant and makes you draw a card can help protect your dredge cards from graveyard removal (e.g. Scavenging Ooze activations, Surgical Extraction, etc.). Also, milling 2 then dredging a Stinkweed Imp or Golgari Grave-Troll puts more cards into the yard that Tome Scour would. Does Tome Scour win out simply because it's a better turn 1 play on average? While I think Thought Scour is fundamentally better, Tome Scour theoretically lets you end the game sooner.

[Phoenix Ignition]

Thoughts on Tome Scour vs Thought Scour? I see that most of the established lists are running Tome Scour. I understand that it's more powerful on turn 1-2, as it dumps a greater number of cards into the yard. However, Thought Scour seems like it has some added utility for other points in the game. The fact that it is an instant and makes you draw a card can help protect your dredge cards from graveyard removal (e.g. Scavenging Ooze activations, Surgical Extraction, etc.). Also, milling 2 then dredging a Stinkweed Imp or Golgari Grave-Troll puts more cards into the yard that Tome Scour would. Does Tome Scour win out simply because it's a better turn 1 play on average? While I think Thought Scour is fundamentally better, Tome Scour theoretically lets you end the game sooner.

Every card in the deck that doesn't have Dredge, Flashback, or the ability to do something when dredged needs to give you the ability to start your engines. You can't keep a hand that has a bunch of non-starters and a Thought Scour; that only gives you 2 chances to hit a dredger. Tome Scour gives you 5, which is generally enough to get you started. It's not great, it feels bad and looks worse on paper, but when you compare it to Thought Scour it isn't even that much worse than the dream Thought Scour (hitting a GGT, dredging 6 means you get 8 cards in your yard on turn 1 instead of 5), but when Thought Scour misses it's so much worse.

I've been trying stuff out instead of Tome Scour but can't say if it's any better yet.

[iostream]

I'm dinosaurus's friend who was deck teched at the GP. I ended up 10-5 in case anyone is wondering. I wrote a long tournament report here: https://www.reddit.com/r/spikes/comm...te_primer_and/

Main thing I'd like to figure out is how to do a Legacy-style sideboard plan where you go even faster against the linear decks, since those were most of the losses. SSG and Wraith are pretty good substitutes for Lotus Petal in this role, I think. Not sure what exactly I would do to the list to accommodate it.

Thoughts on Tome Scour vs Thought Scour? I see that most of the established lists are running Tome Scour. I understand that it's more powerful on turn 1-2, as it dumps a greater number of cards into the yard. However, Thought Scour seems like it has some added utility for other points in the game. The fact that it is an instant and makes you draw a card can help protect your dredge cards from graveyard removal (e.g. Scavenging Ooze activations, Surgical Extraction, etc.). Also, milling 2 then dredging a Stinkweed Imp or Golgari Grave-Troll puts more cards into the yard that Tome Scour would. Does Tome Scour win out simply because it's a better turn 1 play on average? While I think Thought Scour is fundamentally better, Tome Scour theoretically lets you end the game sooner.

There are no "other points in the game" - 80% of your games are decided by turn 2; once you're rolling, either they can stop your parade of free creatures or they can't, and there's not a lot in the deck that can interact once you're dredging. If you're just sitting around dredging 0-1 times a turn for the first two turns of the game, you have lost since basically any decent fair deck in Modern can handle 1-2 small creatures entering the battlefield each turn by turn 3. Thought Scour whiffing is almost an instant loss.

[rufus]

...
Main thing I'd like to figure out is how to do a Legacy-style sideboard plan where you go even faster against the linear decks, since those were most of the losses. SSG and Wraith are pretty good substitutes for Lotus Petal in this role, I think. Not sure what exactly I would do to the list to accommodate it...

I'm not sure you can get the pieces to make that happen in modern. The only graveyard based sack outlet I can think of in modern is Tyramet and that takes significant mana.

[No_Life_No_Future]

I will test Haunted Dead as a replacement for stitch-wing in my list. Its better against removal and the 1/1 ETB untapped.

[Phoenix Ignition]

Blue vs black seems really relevant though with 4 Shivan Reefs. I also like 3/1 flying compared to 2/2 + 1/1 flying, though having a potential instant speed blocker seems nice. Tome Scour would really take a hit if we go B/R instead of U/R.

[Moondancerbb]

I thought i would post on my dredge list i played last night at my LGS's Modern Monday's i think the list is super explosive and pretty resilient. It really feels like the old extended Ichorid build before bridge from below was printed.

Lands 19

4 Copperline Gorge
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Stomping Ground
2 Mountain
1 Dakmoor Salvage
1 Blood Crypt
1 Sacred Foundry

Creatures 24
4 Bloodgast
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Narcomeba
4 Insolent Neonate

Spells 13
4 Life from the Loam
4 Faithless Looting
3 Conflagrate
1 Tormenting Voices
1 Rally the Peasants

Artifacts 4
4 Shriekhorn

Sideboard
4 Nature's Claim
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Darkblast
2 Gnaw to the Bone
2 Lightning Axe
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Bojuka Bog

There were 18 people playing and below is a brief report of how the deck did.

Round 1 2-0
So i will be honest i do not remember what my round one opponent was playing it looked like it might be a version of budget elves or green beat down. He mulled to 4 game one and got stuck on one land game two so details are sketchy here.

Round 2 2-0
Round two was a little more interesting i was playing against a green beat down with Courser for some life gain and good blocks. Game one started dredgeing with shriekhorn game one by turn three he had a sylvan advocate and some mana dorks, Orginal Garuk and i had 2 amalgams 3 narcomebas and a bloodghast. I finally hit Conflagerate in the yard i burn down his team and kill on the following turn. Game Two He has a strong start turn 2 courser and proceeds to play two more on the following turns. I am keeping his life gain in check with a pair of narcomebas, by turn four i have 4 narcomebas 3 Amalgams and two bloodghasts when my dredge hits Rally the peasants i send my team in he blocks and i burn his team with rally killing on the following turn.

Round 3 2-0
Round three opponent was blue black Faeries game one i have a disgusting dredge and have 8 power on turn two with a rally in the yard. I kill him on turn three with him having no disruption. Game two I have a slower hand but plenty of dredge. I put him to eight before he digs for an answer in Kalitas one of his sideboard cards. I have two amalgams one narco, one bloodghast which swinging in brings him to 5 exiling an amalgam I flashback faithless and hit a pair of narcos and its enough to get there the following two turns.

Round 4 2-1
Round Four opponent was a blue green infect. Game one on the play i start dredging as fast as i can hitting some amalgams but no way to bring them into play. He plays Hierarch and passes I dredge more still looking for something to trigger but hitting nothing. Turn two he plays Glistenor and Hierarch. My turn three i hit a conflag and wipe his board making sure to do 3 damage to the glistenor so he cant free pump it to keep it alive. Finally hit a narcomeba and 7 power comes into play. Stuck on two lands he plays blighted agent. I dredge hit another conflag bringing back life from the loam and casting it pulling back 3 lands burning his agent again for 3. Killing on the next turn due to shock and phyrexian mana damage. Game Two He has the nuts turn two kill with double might. Game three I hit 10 power on turn two with some sick dredging and draw with a conflag and a darkblast in the yard. He plays Glistener and passes. I dredge the darkblast conflag for three on the elf forceing him to pump and darkblasting in response to the pump Killing on the next turn.

I sided in ancient grudges and darkblasts every game two but only were relevant in the last match. This deck is very good and there just isnt very much GY hate out there.

[ottofromorbit]

Hey guys it's been a loooong time. I've trolled the legacy threads a while back and I've just recently discovered amalgam. Legacy dredge deck has been on the shelf for a while. I play combo and I've found the turn 4 kill in modern less stressful and the grind is more rewarding. Just knocking the rust off my dredge skills. I still have lots of misplays and getting used to the narco/amalgam into amalgam at end on turn if another was put into the yard before the end step. I don't have the fetch lands so I'm trying the stictchwing skaab to help.
There are unburial rites/craterhoof lists and bridges lists and Loam lists... Which lists are winning?
Thanks for posting play by play and sideboard suggestions. The modern game is still a bit new to me. I'm reading all of it. These new cards have inspired me to love dredge again😎👍
Keep it coming.

[ottofromorbit]

Hey guys it's been a loooong time. I've trolled the legacy threads a while back and I've just recently discovered amalgam. Legacy dredge deck has been on the shelf for a while. I play combo and I've found the turn 4 kill in modern less stressful and the grind is more rewarding. Just knocking the rust off my dredge skills. I still have lots of misplays and getting used to the narco/amalgam into amalgam at end on turn if another was put into the yard before the end step. I don't have the fetch lands so I'm trying the stictchwing skaab to help.
There are unburial rites/craterhoof lists and bridges lists and Loam lists... Which lists are winning?
Thanks for posting play by play and sideboard suggestions. The modern game is still a bit new to me. I'm reading all of it. These new cards have inspired me to love dredge again😎👍
Keep it coming.

....*crickets.....

[CaptainTwiddle]

There isn't much activity on the Modern threads here. I wanted to give some input on Dredge, but I've kind of been reassessing it as of late, as it seems the format has moved to accommodate it in such a way that it is a contender, but is much more fair. I started on the Bridge from Below builds, because you can't argue the explosive power that Bridge provides, but I've come to favor the versions without Bridge presently, as you're able to grind better and make yourself less susceptible to certain forms of interaction/hate.

Kaladesh adds a real upgrade to the deck in the form of Cathartic Reunion. I've been testing with it for a while now and there have been multiple games where I've been able to dredge so efficiently that I had to stop dredging to avoid decking myself. I also like Scrapheap Scrounger as a 1-of that lets you buy back your Prized Amalgams without having to set up landfall for Bloodghast or dredge a Narcomoeba (which convinced me to cut Golgari Thug from my list).

Overall, I think the core of the deck is pretty set. The number of "must include" 4-ofs is high, leaving only a few slots for tweaking. I'm wondering if a single Rally the Peasants or Scourge Devil is worth it in the non-Bridge lists to add a bit more explosiveness.