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Thread: Dredge

  1. #1

    Dredge

    So, maybe no one on the Source cares about Modern but I still think you guys are good brewers and would like to get some feedback on an exciting deck I think is becoming possible in Modern. That's right: Legacy's favorite, Dredge. I'm starting a new thread for this archetype because the new version is fundamentally different from the old Dredgevine approach, in that it's much more all-in and therefore much more akin to the Legacy version of Dredge. We play at least 6 Dredgers and aim to be explosive on Turn 1 to 2. How?

    Two new cards: Insolent Neonate and Prized Amalgam. With these, Dredge finally has more than just Faithless Looting as a Turn 1 discard outlet. Neonate also cements us in the colors BGR, when previously there had been some debate over whether UBG might be better (for Hedron Crab). Still, I like a tiny U splash in my list so that I can hardcast Amalgam against grave hate.

    On to the list:

    4 Gravecrawler
    4 Bloodghast
    4 Prized Amalgam
    4 Vengevine

    4 Insolent Neonate
    4 Lotleth Troll
    4 Faithless Looting

    4 Golgari Grave-Troll
    2-4 Stinkweed Imp
    0-3 Life from the Loam
    0-3 Dakmor Salvage
    0-2 Golgari Thug

    0-1 Dregscape Zombie
    0-2 Rotting Rats
    0-2 Sinister Concoction
    0-2 Lava Axe
    0-1 Darkblast

    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Overgrown Tomb
    3 Blackcleave Cliffs
    2 Blood Crypt
    1 Swamp
    1 Watery Grave
    1 Stomping Ground
    1 Polluted Delta

    The exact numbers of lands is up for debate, as well. I've alternated between playing the 21st land in Dakmor Salvage or a 2nd Stomping Ground. Getting manascrewed or colorscrewed stinks, but occasionally being able to dredge Salvage on T2 and get some Ghasts into play is lifesaving.

    As you can see, the core of the deck is fairly established. I'm just still quibbling with the support cards. And as you can also see, there is a lot of flexibility in the 6 open slots we have.
    • Life from the Loam: fixes mana, recurs Bloodghast and is an additional, not-half-bad dredger.
    • Dakmor Salvage: doesn't fix mana well, is an awful land, a shitty dredger, but does come down faster than Loam sometimes.
    • Stinkweed Imp: running Imp 3-4 is a decision I'm usually happy with. Provides extra acceleration and can chump block Goyf in a pinch.
    • Golgari Thug: I stay away from Thug because I prefer the Imp, but perhaps in a lower-to-the-ground version Thug could shine. He's easier to hardcast, enabling faster Vengevines.
    • Dregscape Zombie: A cheap way to trigger Amalgam and Vengevine in the late game.
    • Rotting Rats: A slightly more expensive Dregscape Zombie that is a better card on its own, and can occasionally serve as Lotleth Troll 5-6.
    • Sinister Concoction: Strong against Scavenging Ooze, which is probably public enemy number 1. If not in the maindeck, then in the sideboard for sure. It also is a discard outlet that can be activated on your upkeep to get you dredging on T2.
    • Lava Axe: Another answer to ScOoze that is cheaper than Concoction. Unfortunately, both Concoction and Axe suffer from the problem of doing nothing if your opponent hasn't cast a creature.
    • Darkblast: Probably an SB option, but a strong card that suffers from the same problem as Axe and Concoction. One to consider for sure.
    As you can see, this deck is pretty customizable for your meta.

    Let's move on to the sideboard:
    Here's my list, for starters:

    4 Gravecrawler
    4 Bloodghast
    4 Prized Amalgam
    4 Vengevine

    4 Insolent Neonate
    4 Lotleth Troll
    4 Faithless Looting

    4 Golgari Grave-Troll
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    2 Life from the Loam
    1 Dakmor Salvage
    1 Dregscape Zombie

    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Overgrown Tomb
    3 Blackcleave Cliffs
    2 Blood Crypt
    1 Swamp
    1 Watery Grave
    1 Stomping Ground
    1 Polluted Delta

    SB
    4 Nature's Claim
    3 Inquisition of Kozilek
    2 Darkblast
    2 Sinister Concoction
    2 Gnaw to the Bone
    2 Ancient Grudge

    I'd love to get your suggestions! With our collective brains, we could make Dredge a real competitor in Modern.

  2. #2

    Re: Dredge

    Hi,

    Nice list. I have played with a dredge reanimator deck that has been really funny but still quite competitive.


    4 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Blood Crypt
    1 Godless Shrine
    1 Stomping Ground
    2 City of Brass
    3 Forest
    3 Mountain
    2 Plains
    2 Swamp

    3 Simian Spirit Guide

    1 Raven's Crime
    4 Faithless Looting
    4 Tormenting Voice
    4 Wild Guess

    4 Life from the Loam
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    4 Golgari Grave-Troll

    2 Gnaw to the Bone
    4 Vengeful Pharaoh

    3 Unburial Rites
    1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
    1 Ashen Rider
    1 Blazing Archon
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria


    Sideboard:

    3 Ray of Revelation
    3 Ancient Grudge
    1 Raven's Crime
    3 Conflagrate
    1 Grave Titan
    1 Simian Spirit Guide
    3 Terastodon

    Basically you need just 2 lands with access to green mana (for Life from the Loam). Then just dredge into the combo. Simian Spirit Guide speeds things a lot. My manabase is now a little budgetish and should be upgraded with some more fetch lands.

    EDIT: Lava Axe should be Lightning Axe in previous post?

  3. #3

    Re: Dredge

    Obould:

    Yes, Lightning Axe, clearly.

    More importantly, how would you change your list given these new cards? Do they make in impact for you? I like your list a lot, actually. The combo is clearly very powerful and works well with Loam. Have you seen Raphael Levy's Loam Pox list from a while back? It's similar to yours, opting for control instead of a combo.

    I do think personally I'd avoid the combo approach to Dredge right now because these new cards seem, for me, so powerful that they warrant testing - and they seem to fit best in an aggro list. I also am afraid the Unburial Rites combo makes us even more vulnerable to grave hate than normal.

    Edit: I also quite like that you can play Ray of Revelation in your list. I can't afford to splash white, I don't think, but it seems like a great card if I could.

  4. #4

    Re: Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by LMental View Post
    Obould:

    Yes, Lightning Axe, clearly.

    More importantly, how would you change your list given these new cards? Do they make in impact for you? I like your list a lot, actually. The combo is clearly very powerful and works well with Loam. Have you seen Raphael Levy's Loam Pox list from a while back? It's similar to yours, opting for control instead of a combo.

    I do think personally I'd avoid the combo approach to Dredge right now because these new cards seem, for me, so powerful that they warrant testing - and they seem to fit best in an aggro list. I also am afraid the Unburial Rites combo makes us even more vulnerable to grave hate than normal.

    Edit: I also quite like that you can play Ray of Revelation in your list. I can't afford to splash white, I don't think, but it seems like a great card if I could.
    The only card I would consider to my build is Insolent Neonate in place of Wild Guess. Wild guess' double red in mana cost is hard sometimes and that new card could help with that. It also feeds Gnaw to the Bone that is quite helpful in certain match ups.

    I have seen a list about that Loam pox but it is, as you said, more control. I'm trying to speed to the combo.

    At least for now there are quite little grave hate. The only one I have encountered for a long time is relic of progenitus that you can play around. I have also Grave Titan in sideboard that you can cast rather easily from hand. The raw card drawing power also helps to find answers to permanent type grave hate and when I have enough mana I can combo fast. So opponent's can't sit behind their single grave hate for too long. I have thought that you have to win game 1 and then somehow to win one of games 2/3, like any other combo decks and legacy dredge.

    A funny thing to notice: I have played a couple of times against dredgevine and I have won all of them. Maybe that new Sinister Concoction helps to deal with cards like Blazing Archon.

  5. #5

    Re: Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Obould View Post
    The only card I would consider to my build is Insolent Neonate in place of Wild Guess. Wild guess' double red in mana cost is hard sometimes and that new card could help with that. It also feeds Gnaw to the Bone that is quite helpful in certain match ups.

    I have seen a list about that Loam pox but it is, as you said, more control. I'm trying to speed to the combo.

    At least for now there are quite little grave hate. The only one I have encountered for a long time is relic of progenitus that you can play around. I have also Grave Titan in sideboard that you can cast rather easily from hand. The raw card drawing power also helps to find answers to permanent type grave hate and when I have enough mana I can combo fast. So opponent's can't sit behind their single grave hate for too long. I have thought that you have to win game 1 and then somehow to win one of games 2/3, like any other combo decks and legacy dredge.

    A funny thing to notice: I have played a couple of times against dredgevine and I have won all of them. Maybe that new Sinister Concoction helps to deal with cards like Blazing Archon.
    Yes, fair enough. Perhaps Sinister Concoction is enough against Archon and Elesh Norn; I think it's mostly a toss-up, though. My list is winning on turn 4 pretty frequently, which is also when you'd combo. So it may just depend who goes first. Of course, you have Vengeful Pharoah as defense; however, I doubt it's actually strong enough to buy you more than one turn at most. Gnaw to the Bone also appears powerful in the pseudo "mirror".

    Concotion suffers from the obvious problem of needing to be in your hand. But in every other way it's quite synergistic so I think it should probably be a 2-4 of in every SB, depending on how much Scavenging Ooze you expect.

  6. #6

    Re: Dredge

    I've been playing Dredgevine for a while, and I've found that recurring creatures are the best avenue to pursue. I've gradually taken out most of the dredgers and I'm still blazing through my library. My current build, if memory serves, is:

    4 Gravecrawler
    4 Bloodghasts
    4 Lotleth Troll
    4 Vengevine
    4 Gurmag Angler
    4 Hedron Crab
    3 Saytr Wayfinder
    1 Skaab Ruinator
    2 Golgari Grave Troll

    4 Grisley Salvage
    3 Abrupt Decay

    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Misty Rainforest
    The rest are fetch targets.

    Hedron Crab is honestly my favorite card in the deck. It just does so much, and even when my opponents waste resources to kill it, it just buys me time to get my other threats down.

    I've ordered my set of Amalgams. I'll take out the Ruinator, an Angler, cut a land, and cut a Decay for all four. Heck, I might just retool the whole thing. It's effective, but Amalgam is a card I've been waiting for. Bloodghast and Gravecrawler can trigger it, and I cannot avoid trying to maximize that effect.

  7. #7

    Re: Dredge

    Crab is good, but I'd argue Neonate is better. It allows even more explosive plays. Of course you need dredgers, and I understand why you're against them - they've been historically underwhelming in Modern. But with 16 recurring creatures (Crawler, Ghast, Amalgam, and Vine), Dredgers are finally in a good place in Modern. Plus, you can play LftL to ensure you still hit land drops.

    Crab also has the downside of needing fetches to function. This can lead to awkward hands. Of course you're playing Salvager and Wayfinder so that should smooth things out. Overall it appears to me a slower, perhaps more consistent approach.

  8. #8

    Re: Dredge

    That's pretty much the idea. I might be a tad slower, (not much, really) but it rarely misses. I tend to flood the board with creatures that just don't go down.

  9. #9

    Re: Dredge

    Hey,

    I haven't been playing Modern in a while but I tinkered with lists using/abusing Unburial Rites.
    The list got its first inspiration from an article in SCG or CF (can't remember which one) and with the help of fellow members of a French forum we came to this:
    1 Blood Crypt
    1 Dakmor Salvage
    1 Forest
    1 Godless Shrine
    1 Mana Confluence
    1 Overgrown Tomb
    1 Plains
    1 Sacred Foundry
    1 Stomping Ground
    1 Swamp
    1 Temple Garden
    2 Arid Mesa
    2 Marsh Flats
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Gemstone Mine

    1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
    2 Borborygmos Enraged
    2 Iona, Shield of Emeria
    2 Street Wraith
    4 Golgari Thug
    4 Llanowar Mentor
    4 Stinkweed Imp

    1 Conflagrate
    1 Flame Jab
    3 Raven's Crime
    4 Faithless Looting
    4 Life from the Loam
    4 Lingering Souls
    4 Unburial Rites

    SB: 1 Conflagrate
    SB: 1 Sun Titan
    SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
    SB: 2 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
    SB: 3 Suppression Field
    SB: 3 Ray of Revelation
    SB: 3 Ancient Grudge

    I played it back in 2014 and stopped playing Modern because I got tired of Birthing Pod being omnipresent. Golgari Troll being still banned at that time, it was obviously slower than today's iteration -if the list was to be updated.

    Recently, the card that picked my curiosity was The Gitrog Monster...
    So with the previous list (see above) in mind, I drafted the one below:
    4 Faithless Looting
    4 Tormenting voice
    4 Life from the Loam
    4 Unburial Rites
    4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
    3 Drown in Filth
    2 Conflagrate
    2 Call the Bloodline
    3 Edge of Autumn
    4 Borborygmos Enraged
    4 The Gitrog Monster
    4 Dakmor Salvage
    2 Mana Confluence
    3 Gemstome Mine
    1 Westvale Abbey
    3 Swamp
    4 Mountains
    4 Forests
    1 Plains

    This is still pretty rough but the synergies at hand between Gitster and Borbo are incredible (allowing clean one shots if needed).
    Interesting point is that each creature reanimated/cast separately still offer a lot of interesting and powerful plays.
    Last but not least, we can go Token and eventually flip an Abbey as an alternative kill.

    The mana base is still to be improved BUT playing cards like Edge of Autumn and/or Traverse the Ulvenwald imply to play with more basics than fetchs+shocklands
    Call the Bloodline is the token enabler and provides us with an additional discard outlet. Spawning Lifelink token to chumpblock buys us some additional turns when in dire need but am not yet 100% sold on it to be honest. This could be replaced by 2 additional target to reanimate (Iona/Elesh Norn/Sire of Insanity/Grave Titan).
    Traverse the Ulvenwald >really strong card in a deck that aims at flipping its library in its graveyard thus enabling the Delirium rather sooner than later.
    Edge of Autumn > obvious synergies are obvious.

    cheers

  10. #10
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    Re: Dredge

    Has anyone tried a manaless version?
    I d like to test somethin like this
    4 phantasmagorian
    4 thug
    4 GGT
    4 STimp
    2 dakmor salvage
    2 nox revival
    4 bloodghast
    4 dryad arb
    4 edge of autumn
    4 prized am
    4 death gate demon
    4 call to netherworld
    4 narco
    4 bridges
    4 probes
    4 s wraith

    Side
    3 shoal B
    3 faerie mac
    2 fetch Gx
    1 forest
    2 natural state
    4 nature claim

    Inviato dal mio LG-D802 utilizzando Tapatalk

  11. #11
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    Re: Dredge

    I have been brewing on MTGO with versions of dredge and I struggled to find a good version. The decks main problem is a lack of good dredge enablers which can lead you to mulling into oblivion. I struggled with different colors and manabases. I started jund, but I eventually found that Vengevine can be a bit win-more and difficult to activate. This lead me to cutting vengies. Which later lead me to cut Gravecrawler. I found Lotleth Troll to be great, but it was often hard to cast. The deck had much more busted starts when I added Narcomoeba. Then I found Stitchwing Skaab! This replaced Troll and made the deck more consistent. At this point I also realized Dakmor Salvage is really good because it turns on 1 landers, triggers Bloodghast, and adds more dredgers to the deck. The last most important change I made to my list was to go prismatic. The upside was huge. One land hands were better and the access to some sweet board cards really improved the deck.

    I am currently 22-13 with this version of deck on MTGO league.

    Modern Dredge:
    4 City of Brass
    4 Gemstone Mine
    4 Mana Confluence
    4 Shivan Reef
    3 Dakmor Salvage
    1 Mountain

    4 Prized Amalgam
    4 Narcomoeba
    3 Bloodghast
    3 Stitchwing Skaab

    4 Golgari Grave-Troll
    4 Stinkweed Imp

    4 Insolent Neonate
    4 Faithless Looting
    4 Tome Scour

    1 Darkblast
    1 Gnaw to the Bone
    2 Lightning Axe
    2 Izzet Charm

    Sideboard:
    3 Ancient Grudge
    3 Memory's Journey
    2 Ray of Revelation
    1 Darkblast
    2 Lightning Axe
    2 Izzet Charm
    2 Gnaw to the Bone

    Cards Tested:
    Vengevine
    Gravecrawler
    Lotleth Troll
    Drowned Rusalka
    Remand
    Hedron Crab
    Abrupt Decay
    Murderous Cut

    I am regularly racing Scavenging Ooze, Relic of Progenitus, and Rest in Peace. The deck is bonkers.
    Last edited by No_Life_No_Future; 05-03-2016 at 07:29 PM.
    High score..what does that mean? Did I break the game?

  12. #12

    Re: Dredge

    Cool list @No_Life_No_Future. I especially like the incorporation of Stitchwing Skaab and Narcomoeba over Vengevine and Gravecrawler; this is something I've been experimenting with myself. I also like the 2/2 Axe/Charm split; both seem powerful and useful here, and each offers its own strengths to your list. (Charm is particular is a nice hedge for problem MUs like Grishoalbrand.)

    A few questions:

    Why only 3 Bloodghasts? I'd be tempted to run a 4/2 Ghast/Skaab split, given that Ghast is much easier to land, great in multiples and Ghast + Amalgam is a really strong and frequent turn 2 play.

    3 Memory's Journey in the board? Is this for Abzan Company and Grishoalbrand? What else?

    Tome Scour does its job but is unimpressive, I've felt. Have you considered other options? What about playing a couple more dredgers?

    Why did you test Remand?

    How much damage are you dealing yourself with 4 Mana Confluence, 4 City of Brass and 4 Shivan Reef?

    Otherwise we're on the same page. Nice work.

  13. #13
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    Re: Dredge

    I have cut one Izzet Charm and moved the other to the board. I replaced them with more Lightning Axe which is a better card against everything but combo. I found that they can sometimes be to difficult to cast and are too slow as an enabler. I added another Ray of Revelation for more answers to Leyline of the Void.

    It might have been wrong going -1 on Bloodghast. My reasoning was that I wanted to minimize the number of bad cards in my opener because I found I was having to mulligan too much due to lack of dredge enablers.

    These are the flex slots which are not enablers:
    1 Bloodghast
    1 Gnaw to the Bone (pretty hard to cut...)
    1 Stitchwing Skaab
    1 Dakmore Salvage

    I chose to keep Stitchwing over Bloodghast because ~40% of the time you will have an amalgam in your opening hand. If you didn't use Faithless Looting or have some additional discard effects it will remain stranded in your hand. There are 10 cards in the deck you can mill to activate amalgam turn 2. I think the third Dakmor Salvage is great because it lets you cast faithless looting or gnaw to the bone more reliably. As you can see the deck is pretty tight already. I guess you could also make an argument that Lightning Axe is too situational and a worse enabler and not worth cutting a bloodghast for an extra copy. It is good versus the majority of the format and the decks which it isn't good against we don't have a great chance of winning game 1 anyway.

    The 1-3 Memory's journey come in against Goryo's Vengence Decks, Abzan Company, Lantern Control, Storm, Dredge, Gifts Ungiven and Snapcaster Mage. It is really hard to find cards from the main to cut for any sideboard cards. I usually trim 1 Stitchwing, Lightning Axe & Darkblast vs non creature combo.

    I found Tome scour to be great. It is equivalent to dredging a Stinkweed Imp. It is the best turn 1 play you can make with the deck besides neonate dredge gravetroll which requires two cards. Neonate and Tome Scour both enable possible turn 1 Amalgam plays off Narcomeba which are the most busted starts. I have turn 3 killed this way many times. There are a lack of good enablers in modern at 1cc which is why I am currently playing 4 Lightning Axe. I tried Burning Inquiry but it is too unreliable as a discard outlet. It was definitely interesting and fun and lead to some really busted dredges which reminded me of breakthrough in legacy.

    Other interesting one drops I haven't tested yet:
    Thought scour
    Llanowar Mentor

    For dredgers I have:
    3 Dakmor Salvage
    4 Golgari Grave-Troll
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    1 Darkblast

    Darkblast can be a blowout. That's why I have a second one in the sideboard. Maybe, I could move it to the main deck to improve our dredging consistency. I don't think that adding Golgari Thug or Life from the Loam would be any good.

    I tested remand and izzet charm together in a more instant speed controlling version. I thought it would provide tempo allowing you to set your opponent back a turn while dredging. It is still a very good card especially against combo, but it doesn't help put a dredger into the yard on turn 1 which is really what the deck needs.

    I have actually found that the manabase is less painful than my previous Fetchland build. The dakmore, gemstone, shivan reef and mountain can all be painless. I think I take about 3-5 damage by turn 4.
    Last edited by No_Life_No_Future; 05-06-2016 at 01:57 AM.
    High score..what does that mean? Did I break the game?

  14. #14

    Re: Dredge

    Thanks, that all makes sense to me. Regarding the Ghast / Skaab split, I was testing yesterday with 4 Ghast / 3 Skaab and then 4/4/3 Looting/Neonate/Tome Scour. Those numbers get even better if you cut the Izzet Charms for two more Lightning Axe maindeck, giving you 15 turn 1 discard/dredge outlets, which I think is likely plenty. I rarely found myself missing the 4th Tome Scour, and I did find it massively helpful on occasion to dredge a Bloodghast on turn 2 and get back Amalgam as well.

    Regarding your flex slots: would not cut the 3rd Salvage, it's quite important. Gnaw to the Bone is clutch MD, of course, but it honestly doesn't come up in a lot of MUs. Still it's a lot of upside for relatively little work, so perhaps it should stay in. The 3rd Skaab, as you mention, can be quite useful. I understand the arguments for the 4th Tome Scour, but again, I think the deck can function without it. Maybe I just mulligan more than you? Any hand that doesn't have a turn 1 dredge enabler I throw back obviously, so cutting 1 TS certainly, in some small way, would make me mulligan more - I'm sure someone somewhere can do math on this.

    Anyways, I'll do some testing with 3 Ghasts - perhaps I'll be surprised.

    Burning Inquiry is too unreliable in my testing too. Thought Scour doesn't do enough most of the time. Llanowar Mentor is really slow, though perhaps powerful. Same for Hedron Crab - but it requires running an inferior manabase too.

    My testing definitely confirms your manabase is solid.

  15. #15
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    Re: Dredge

    My current list is definitely more of a race/aggro list:

    Creatures:

    4 Insolent Neonate
    4 Bloodghast
    4 Narcomoeba
    4 Prized Amalgam
    4 Street Wraith
    4 Golgari Grave-Troll
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    1 Vengeful Pharaoh
    1 Craterhoof Behemoth
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
    1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite

    Instants/Sorceries:

    4 Faithless Looting
    3 Unburial Rites
    3 Life From the Loam

    Lands:

    4 Mana Confluence
    4 Dakmoor Salvage
    4 Copperline Gorge
    4 Gemstone Mine
    2 City of Brass

    I was initially running Zombie Infestation and Llanowar Mentor as additional discard outlets but found the mentor to be terribly slow and Zombie Infestation to be a dead card in about half of my games; it's awesome having it on the draw but more often than not it's just getting thrown in the yard. Street Wraith has proven invaluable against Scooze and other hate, saving a Grave-Troll on plenty of occasions as well as giving me another opportunity to get more into the yard. Still testing with my local meta but so far it's been making everyone think twice about not showing up with graveyard hate in SB's.

  16. #16

    Re: Dredge

    Cool list. Are you finding it hard to get the mana for Unburial Rites on Turn 4? You're playing even fewer lands than the average list. However you do run 4 Salvage and 3 Loam. But those aren't exactly the fastest cards out there.

    Or maybe the deck isn't trying to Unburial on Turn 4 but more like 5-6 as a plan B?

    Skaab is good. Not sure if it's better than the Rites plan, but it certainly takes less investment. On the other hand Vengeful Pharoah is an awesome card in Modern and a lot of decks have trouble with it.

  17. #17
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    Re: Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by LMental View Post
    Cool list. Are you finding it hard to get the mana for Unburial Rites on Turn 4? You're playing even fewer lands than the average list. However you do run 4 Salvage and 3 Loam. But those aren't exactly the fastest cards out there.

    Or maybe the deck isn't trying to Unburial on Turn 4 but more like 5-6 as a plan B?

    Skaab is good. Not sure if it's better than the Rites plan, but it certainly takes less investment. On the other hand Vengeful Pharoah is an awesome card in Modern and a lot of decks have trouble with it.
    Getting the mana for Unburial Rites by turn 4 is not too difficult; granted, reanimating a Craterhoof is one of the win-cons this list has gone plenty of games without it. A nuts draw is a red producing land/Neonate/dredger/Wraith/second land. This allows you to turbo dredge into your yard on your opponent's turn 1 mainphase looking for Narcs, Amalgams, and Bloodghasts. Most decks cannot keep up with 1+ Narc/Amalgam swinging in on turn 2 with Bloodghasts to back it up. Generally turn 3 is where I'm looking to restock with Loam for a land drop into turn 4 Rites for the big finish but by that point I have usually already been swinging in with some combination of Amalgam/Narc/Ghast for close to lethal

  18. #18
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    Re: Dredge

    After some more testing I have been trying to figure out the right number of Phantasmagorians and possibly throwing in some Stitchwing Skaabs as discard outlets. Phantasmagorian definitely has his place in the list but I don't feel as though he deserves a four-of. Haven't played around with the Skaab yet but I've seen some very similar lists with them stuffed in and I like the idea of discard on a body. I'll be figuring out exactly how many is the right number and update

    Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk

  19. #19

    Re: Dredge

    Magus_of_the_Moon is currently crushing people with that dredge deck:

    http://i.imgur.com/jx1Udiu.jpg

    By far the best Dredge build I have seen in Modern so far.

    You can watch his past streams, where he is playing with this deck.

    Greetings,
    Kathal

  20. #20

    Re: Dredge

    @Kathal

    Yeah, Magus has been crushing for a while with various forms of dredge. The thing is, he changes his list so much that it's hard to know what's best. A few weeks back he was on 0 Bridge, 0 Inquiry, 4 Dangerous Wager, 4 Skaab. Clearly though he's a strong dredge player and is hopefully working towards an optimized list.

    In other news, someone got 9th at MOCS with dredge. List was the Vengevine list with 2 Rotting Rats, 1 Lightning Axe and 1 Life from the Loam in the flex slots. No removal in the MD and SB except that singleton Lightning Axe! Very ballsy.

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