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Thread: Dredge

  1. #41

    Re: Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainTwiddle View Post
    There isn't much activity on the Modern threads here. I wanted to give some input on Dredge, but I've kind of been reassessing it as of late, as it seems the format has moved to accommodate it in such a way that it is a contender, but is much more fair. I started on the Bridge from Below builds, because you can't argue the explosive power that Bridge provides, but I've come to favor the versions without Bridge presently, as you're able to grind better and make yourself less susceptible to certain forms of interaction/hate.

    Kaladesh adds a real upgrade to the deck in the form of Cathartic Reunion. I've been testing with it for a while now and there have been multiple games where I've been able to dredge so efficiently that I had to stop dredging to avoid decking myself. I also like Scrapheap Scrounger as a 1-of that lets you buy back your Prized Amalgams without having to set up landfall for Bloodghast or dredge a Narcomoeba (which convinced me to cut Golgari Thug from my list).

    Overall, I think the core of the deck is pretty set. The number of "must include" 4-ofs is high, leaving only a few slots for tweaking. I'm wondering if a single Rally the Peasants or Scourge Devil is worth it in the non-Bridge lists to add a bit more explosiveness.

  2. #42

    Re: Dredge

    Thanks for you input captain! I love the cathartic reunion for this build. I'm also not convinced bridges is the best way. Too many pieces for the perfect game with greater gargadon make it too fragile for me. I also agree modern meta is grind-ier than legacy where bridges were your whole gameplan inside 2-3 turns. This shriekhorn. Is getting a lot of playtime. Are we topdecking more when they're online? Do they stay in vs hate in games 2 and 3?... I'm just trying to stay current on the upgrades to dredge. Are there any other sites where forums are active on modern dredge play by plays and discussions?.

  3. #43
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    Re: Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainTwiddle View Post
    Kaladesh adds a real upgrade to the deck in the form of Cathartic Reunion. I've been testing with it for a while now and there have been multiple games where I've been able to dredge so efficiently that I had to stop dredging to avoid decking myself.
    My big problem was that any 2 costing spells have to be dredgeable or retrace-able. Literally any card that didn't get me going on turn 1 was really hard to justify (especially if you need 2 untapped lands on turn 2). Discard as a cost is great, so maybe this would be worth it, but I don't know what I'd replace for it other than another type of enabler that gets started on turn 1.


    I also like Scrapheap Scrounger as a 1-of that lets you buy back your Prized Amalgams without having to set up landfall for Bloodghast or dredge a Narcomoeba (which convinced me to cut Golgari Thug from my list).
    Do you like this over Stitchwing Skaab or Haunted Dead though? I have to imagine those two are slightly better, even before factoring the creature exile prereq on Scrapheap.

  4. #44
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    Re: Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Ignition View Post
    My big problem was that any 2 costing spells have to be dredgeable or retrace-able. Literally any card that didn't get me going on turn 1 was really hard to justify (especially if you need 2 untapped lands on turn 2). Discard as a cost is great, so maybe this would be worth it, but I don't know what I'd replace for it other than another type of enabler that gets started on turn 1.

    Do you like this over Stitchwing Skaab or Haunted Dead though? I have to imagine those two are slightly better, even before factoring the creature exile prereq on Scrapheap.
    I haven't had a problem with Cathartic Reunion costing 2 mana. I'll post my decklist below, but the main game plan is just grind with recursive creatures, then use Life from the Loam to fill your hand for a huge Conflagrate. LftL plays really well with Reunion, giving you excess cards to pitch when you don't have any of your "I want this in the graveyard" cards in hand.

    The consideration/criticism of Scrapheap Scrounger is valid. I like that it doesn't require discarding to recur, as Cathartic Reunion and Conflagrate are kind of taxing our hand as is. I'm not a fan of Stitchwing Skaap, simply because I often don't have the ability to produce blue mana. Haunted Dead may be a better option. It certainly plays defense better (I mean, Scrounger doesn't play D at all), but I like that Scrounger, like Bloodghast, can play the role of another creature with which you can just attack with relentlessly. I'm only play the Scrounger as a x1, so I haven't had it involved in that many games. I might try swapping it for a Scourge Devil, which adds a bit more explosive punch to the deck at a possibly negligible cost of not being able to recur the Devil more than once.

    Here's my current list, to get a better understanding of how/why I may be evaluating certain cards in certain ways:

    Dredge
    CREATURES
    4 Bloodghast
    4 Golgari Grave-Troll
    4 Insolent Neonate
    4 Narcomoeba
    4 Prized Amalgam
    1 Scrapheap Scrounger
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    SPELLS
    4 Cathartic Reunion
    3 Conflagrate
    4 Faithless Looting
    2 Life from the Loam
    1 Lightning Axe
    LAND
    2 Blood Crypt
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    4 Copperline Gorge
    2 Dakmor Salvage
    3 Mountain
    1 Steam Vents
    2 Stomping Ground
    3 Wooded Foothills

  5. #45

    Re: Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainTwiddle View Post
    I haven't had a problem with Cathartic Reunion costing 2 mana. I'll post my decklist below, but the main game plan is just grind with recursive creatures, then use Life from the Loam to fill your hand for a huge Conflagrate. LftL plays really well with Reunion, giving you excess cards to pitch when you don't have any of your "I want this in the graveyard" cards in hand.

    The consideration/criticism of Scrapheap Scrounger is valid. I like that it doesn't require discarding to recur, as Cathartic Reunion and Conflagrate are kind of taxing our hand as is. I'm not a fan of Stitchwing Skaap, simply because I often don't have the ability to produce blue mana. Haunted Dead may be a better option. It certainly plays defense better (I mean, Scrounger doesn't play D at all), but I like that Scrounger, like Bloodghast, can play the role of another creature with which you can just attack with relentlessly. I'm only play the Scrounger as a x1, so I haven't had it involved in that many games. I might try swapping it for a Scourge Devil, which adds a bit more explosive punch to the deck at a possibly negligible cost of not being able to recur the Devil more than once.

    Here's my current list, to get a better understanding of how/why I may be evaluating certain cards in certain ways:

    Dredge
    CREATURES
    4 Bloodghast
    4 Golgari Grave-Troll
    4 Insolent Neonate
    4 Narcomoeba
    4 Prized Amalgam
    1 Scrapheap Scrounger
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    SPELLS
    4 Cathartic Reunion
    3 Conflagrate
    4 Faithless Looting
    2 Life from the Loam
    1 Lightning Axe
    LAND
    2 Blood Crypt
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    4 Copperline Gorge
    2 Dakmor Salvage
    3 Mountain
    1 Steam Vents
    2 Stomping Ground
    3 Wooded Foothills

  6. #46

    Re: Dredge

    Awesome! Cathartic reunion will be a huge game changer this season. solid list. I'm running the same. But still using Stitchwing. I run 2 steam vents and I never really need to use it. In thinking it could be cut altogether.
    Is there any good gargadon/bridges lists that are winning?
    I've been tinkering with it.
    I found my old "traitors clutch" I used with the old psychatog/ichorid deck before dredge was a thing. I like the unblockable shadow 10/7 idea. It flashes back for 1B.

  7. #47

    Re: Dredge

    I preferred haunted dead over scrapheap scrounger... It brings in another 1/1

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    Re: Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by ottofromorbit View Post
    I preferred haunted dead over scrapheap scrounger... It brings in another 1/1
    And it blocks infect creatures all day long.


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    "Dredge isn't a deck, it's public masturbation with graveyard triggers."

    Quote Originally Posted by phazonmutant View Post
    So dismissive.
    Quote Originally Posted by danyul View Post
    This thread is great. I've been able to save so much money on seasoning! Whenever I'm eating something bland, I just wander over here to borrow some of the infinite salt.

  9. #49
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    Re: Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by meffeo View Post
    And [Haunted Dead] blocks infect creatures all day long.

    Which probably makes it the right choice for the current meta, as Infect the top deck. Scourge Devil might be better against the Death's Shadow aggro decks, as it lets you be a tad more aggressive and the Spirit token doesn't do much against Temur Battle Rage, but as we're talking about a single card in the maindeck, I think Haunted Dead is the option that is most relevant in the greatest number of situations.

  10. #50

    Re: Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainTwiddle View Post
    Which probably makes it the right choice for the current meta, as Infect the top deck. Scourge Devil might be better against the Death's Shadow aggro decks, as it lets you be a tad more aggressive and the Spirit token doesn't do much against Temur Battle Rage, but as we're talking about a single card in the maindeck, I think Haunted Dead is the option that is most relevant in the greatest number of situations.
    Does anyone run "viscera the seer" with bridges?...it seems like a good way to stack your draws and dredges

  11. #51
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    Re: Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by ottofromorbit View Post
    Does anyone run "viscera the seer" with bridges?...it seems like a good way to stack your draws and dredges
    Viscera Seer is an option. I think the main reason it isn't run is because it's black and the deck is very much red; it's also very fragile, whereas Greater Gargadon hangs out in the exile zone, avoiding most interaction. I could see running 1-2 Seer in a Bridge version. It's nice that, despite its fragility, Viscera Seer does provide an infinite source of sacrifice; while it doesn't come up often, there are the occassions where you want/need to sacrifice things and you don't want Gargadon to unsuspend.

  12. #52
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    Re: Dredge

    I had pretty good results with the deck in the last tourneys (50-60 players each), top8ing 4 out of 4 and losing one in the final to Kiln Fiend Aggro. There's a big tournament in two weeks and I'm probably playing the following 75s:

    4 Insolent Neonate
    4 Bloodghast
    4 Narcomoeba
    4 Prized Amalgam
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    1 Haunted Dead
    4 Golgari Grave-Troll

    3 Conflagrate
    1 Darkblast
    4 Faithless Looting
    4 Cathartic Reunion
    3 Life from the Loam

    2 Blood Crypt
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    4 Copperline Gorge
    2 Dakmor Salvage
    2 Mountain
    1 Scalding Tarn
    1 Steam Vents
    2 Stomping Ground
    2 Wooded Foothills

    SB
    1 Vengeful Pharaoh
    2 Lightning Axe
    3 Nature's Claim
    2 Thoughtseize -> tired of losing to AN / Titanshift
    2 Ancient Grudge
    2 Collective Brutality
    1 Gnaw to the Bone
    2 Bojuka Bog

    No second Darkblast, that is why I opted for the Haunted Dead instead of the Scourge Devil. Still wondering if four discard spells are fine but I will probably switch a Brutality for a second Gnaw to the Bone (European meta, I expect a lot of Burn and Gnaw is superior to Brutality).

    Food for thoughts, guys.
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    "Dredge isn't a deck, it's public masturbation with graveyard triggers."

    Quote Originally Posted by phazonmutant View Post
    So dismissive.
    Quote Originally Posted by danyul View Post
    This thread is great. I've been able to save so much money on seasoning! Whenever I'm eating something bland, I just wander over here to borrow some of the infinite salt.

  13. #53
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    Re: Dredge

    rip

  14. #54
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    Re: Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Ignition View Post
    rip
    Oh well, there's still the Thug...
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    "Dredge isn't a deck, it's public masturbation with graveyard triggers."

    Quote Originally Posted by phazonmutant View Post
    So dismissive.
    Quote Originally Posted by danyul View Post
    This thread is great. I've been able to save so much money on seasoning! Whenever I'm eating something bland, I just wander over here to borrow some of the infinite salt.

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    Re: Dredge

    I do wonder, now that Golgari Grave-Troll is banned, if shifting to Bridge from Below + Greater Gargadon variants is going to become the norm for Dredge. Golgari Thug is next in line for to fill Troll's slot and losing the resilience of Troll makes me think leaning on the explosiveness of Bridge is a solid choice. I like the interplay of Thug with Gargadon, as it's a way to draw a Gargadon that was previously dredged.

  16. #56
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    Re: Dredge

    So after messing around with the deck and goldfishing a bunch, I'm really starting to think it's still viable.

    I've gone to 4x Life from the Loam, 3x Dakmor Salvage, and 2x Conflagrate to really try to push through the last damage.

    Losing GGT hurts a lot and Thug definitely doesn't replace it 1 for 1. I think you need to increase dredge density (thus the 4x Life from the Loams), which naturally led to a second Conflagrate at least in my list. Cathartic Reunion is definitely enough to keep the deck going strong.

    Also, since the metagame is starting to forget about graveyard hate, my quote from super long ago still holds:
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Ignition View Post
    Dredge: Then it don't matter. I'll be all around in the dark - I'll be everywhere. Wherever you can look - wherever there's a metagame that has grown complacent, so unprepared to fight graveyards, I'll be there. Wherever decks are trying to grind out their small win percentages against other decks through sideboard slots, I'll be there. I'll be in the way decks stop playing at least 4 sideboard cards against graveyards, be in the way people forget about how to play against this deck, and when the metagame has thought I'm completely dead and gone - I'll be there, too.

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