BigEldrazi

[caprino]

Good ! Glad to know it's fine, and love the common effort on the matter. Perhaps, once we tweak this sideboard guide enough, we could make a proper primer.

Interesting thoughts on Spyglass. Didn't try it yet, cause I think it will better fit in 4x City build, and I only own 2 of these.
But as a competitive intent, don't hesitate to update the sideboard/main deck if it's really good.

@.Caprino : I'm still on the guide I wrote, but if something's wrong, tell it to discuss. When I'll have the time, I'll check it entirely to make minor changes.
Thx you too for the feedback

Vs team America, jund and maverick side guide? Thanks

[caprino]

Hi Caprino ! Looks the deck is running hot with you :)

Maverick :
Out : 4 Chalice (they have Green Sun, Qasali, sometimes Abrupt Decay and not so much one drops), 3 Trinisphere, 1 Dynamo, 1 Voltaic, 1 Kozilek V2
In : 4 Needle (Wasteland, Knight, DRS, Scooze, SFM, Equipments), 3 Warping Wail (every critter), 2 Warping Wail (Gaddock), 1 All is Dust
Notes : Never lose any game (10-0 / 20-3). All is Dust wrecks them if they don’t land Gaddock. All we can fear is an active Knight or a fast start. Most of the time, they think we’re on regular Eldrazi list, and they'll want to tempo us out. Bad idea. You might wanna fit Leylines here (stops Knight and DRS) but I think it's not efficient and doesn't match well with All is Dust.

Team America is a BUG Control deck, right ? I don't really get the nuances between all of these DRS decks sometimes. I'd go for :
On the play :
Out : 3 Trinisphere, 2 Dynamo, 2 Voltaic, 2 Kozilek, 1 Ulamog
In : 4 Needle (Wasteland, Planeswalkers), 4 Leyline (Tarmogoyf, DRS), 2 Spatial Contortion (Delver), and maybe 1 All is Dust

On the draw :
Out : 4 Chalice, 1 Dynamo, 2 Voltaic, 2 Kozilek, 1 Ulamog
In : 4 Needle (Wasteland, Planeswalkers), 4 Leyline (Tarmogoyf, DRS), 2 Spatial Contortion (Delver), and maybe 1 All is Dust
But this is purely theoretical.

Jund :
Out : 4 Chalice, 3 Trinisphere, 1 Voltaic, 1 Dynamo, 2 Kozilek, 1 Ulamog
In : 4 Needle (Wasteland, Liliana), 4 Leyline (Tarmogoyf, DRS, PF), 2 Warping Wail (DRS, Bob, Tourach,), 2 Spatial Contortion, 1 All is Dust
Notes : another awful match up. They combine pressure on our lands (Wasteland), creatures (Liliana), card advantage (Bob, Bloodbraid) and fast clock (Goyf). Needle is the key but they have both Abrupt Decay and Kolaghan’s Command to screw our plan.

Again, this is all subject to discussion.

Team American is problem land delver go and turn 2 wasteland /tourach....yesterday i test Vs team america /bug delver is same....2 1 win and 1 2 lose. I think 50% is matchup

[ChrisDissent]

Team American is problem land delver go and turn 2 wasteland /tourach....yesterday i test Vs team america /bug delver is same....2 1 win and 1 2 lose. I think 50% is matchup

Yep, just what I was thinking. Midrange BUG is favourable, Control is more 50/50.

[caprino]

Yep, just what I was thinking. Midrange BUG is favourable, Control is more 50/50.

I think controll (no delver) is 60 40 for big eldrazi....slow deck is good for BIG.

Team American is aggro...i think 50%50

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Right now, I'm on this list :

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 City of Traitors
2 Vesuva
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Ulamog, The Ceaseless Anger
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
3 Thran Dynamo
3 Voltaic Key
3 Trinisphere

3 All is Dust

SB
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Pithing Needle
3 Warping Wail
2 Spatial Contortion
2 Endbringer



Flex spots are 1 Urborg (could be any utility land, I'm considering going 1 waste for Path to Exile/Ghost Quarter and more narrow uses vs Blood Moon effects), Spatial Contortion (Delver is still a pain in the ass) and Endbringers (there for Sneak and Show match ups, but could be Ensnaring Bridge that works well vs Marit Lage too).
Probably going +1 All is Dust in the side soon.

Results are quite good so far :
Even vs : Grixis, Infect, Turbo Moon, Canadian Threshold, Death Blade, Merfolks, Belcher
Favorable vs : Czech Pile, DnT, BUG (Midrange and Control alike), Eldrazi, Reanimator, TES, Aluren, Shardless, Standstill, Goblins, Stax, Omnitell
Crushing : ANT, Stoneblade UW, Miracles, Elves, Burn, Pox, Maverick, Nic Fit (regular build)
Have a hard time fighting : Sneak Show (not by much, that said), Lands (terrible match up), UR Delver, Dark Dephts, Food Chain, Aggro Loam, Jund, Mono Red Sneak Attack

Fell free to discuss the list.

Is this still the latest list?

[ChrisDissent]

I think controll (no delver) is 60 40 for big eldrazi....slow deck is good for BIG.

Team American is aggro...i think 50%50

My bad, you're right. Well I checked the list and what I said is basically what I'd do against them.

Is this still the latest list?

Pretty much, just -1 Urborg + Karakas MD // -1 Endbringer (thinking about cutting the other one, but for what ?) + 1 All is Dust SB. Testing it ?

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

My bad, you're right. Well I checked the list and what I said is basically what I'd do against them.



Pretty much, just -1 Urborg + Karakas MD // -1 Endbringer (thinking about cutting the other one, but for what ?) + 1 All is Dust SB. Testing it ?

Testing something like it.

[darkgh0st]

#Justpost (your slightly different list)

12-Post Big Eldrazi			darkghost
Lands (26)	Creatures (11)	Spells (23)	Sideboard
4x Ancient Tomb 4x City of Traitors 4x Cloudpost 3x Eldrazi Temple 2x Eye of Ugin 4x Glimmerpost 1x Karakas 2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth 2x Vesuva	4x Endbringer 4x Thought-Knot Seer 3x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger	4x Chalice of the Void 3x Trinisphere 2x Basalt Monolith 4x Grim Monolith 4x Voltaic Key 3x Thran Dynamo 3x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon	4x Pithing Needle 3x Warping Wail 1x Walking Ballista 2x All is Dust 1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn 4x Leyline of the Void

I slotted in cards for what I didn't have.

The Endbringers were great when I got to untap with them, but they were crappy when they met removal right away. I picked up the rest of the missing pieces except the Bridges.

My problems with Reality Smashers is that they don't solve the Baleful Strix problem, which is quite a dominant creature in legacy.

ChrisDissent and caprino, how do you handle the lack of Basalt Monolith? They were the difference of me being able to cast my spells vs DnT and Revoker shutting down multiple cards (2 Grim Monolith and 2 Voltaic Key in one of my games) and losing. They also bridged the early game to mid game for me quite well.

[ChrisDissent]

ChrisDissent and caprino, how do you handle the lack of Basalt Monolith? They were the difference of me being able to cast my spells vs DnT and Revoker shutting down multiple cards (2 Grim Monolith and 2 Voltaic Key in one of my games) and losing. They also bridged the early game to mid game for me quite well.

Vs DnT, it could be a problem, yes. It's a tricky match up, favourable but grindy cause they have a lot of resources. To avoid the Revoker trap, I keep, as possible it can be, a Warping Wail or a Spatial Contortion ready for Revoker, by not directly tap my mana rocks.
Talking about Basalt, the only good point for it (except for being Monolith n° 5/6) is this particular situation. Otherwise, it's a less efficient mana rock, and I would likely run another Dynamo than this one.

On Smasher's case, I don't want to advocate for our Smasher build, but he has an impact as soon he hits the ground, and forces your opponent to card disadvantage to get rid of him. 1 mana less is a thing. And he's a Planeswalker killer.
Endbringer is nice as a drawing engine and at freezing big dudes on the opponent's board, but as you said, it will likely eat all the removal before you can take any advantage of him.

How are your testing so far with this list ?

[caprino]

12-Post Big Eldrazi			darkghost
Lands (26)	Creatures (11)	Spells (23)	Sideboard
4x Ancient Tomb 4x City of Traitors 4x Cloudpost 3x Eldrazi Temple 2x Eye of Ugin 4x Glimmerpost 1x Karakas 2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth 2x Vesuva	4x Endbringer 4x Thought-Knot Seer 3x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger	4x Chalice of the Void 3x Trinisphere 2x Basalt Monolith 4x Grim Monolith 4x Voltaic Key 3x Thran Dynamo 3x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon	4x Pithing Needle 3x Warping Wail 1x Walking Ballista 2x All is Dust 1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn 4x Leyline of the Void

I slotted in cards for what I didn't have.

The Endbringers were great when I got to untap with them, but they were crappy when they met removal right away. I picked up the rest of the missing pieces except the Bridges.

My problems with Reality Smashers is that they don't solve the Baleful Strix problem, which is quite a dominant creature in legacy.

ChrisDissent and caprino, how do you handle the lack of Basalt Monolith? They were the difference of me being able to cast my spells vs DnT and Revoker shutting down multiple cards (2 Grim Monolith and 2 Voltaic Key in one of my games) and losing. They also bridged the early game to mid game for me quite well.

Death and taxes is good matchup...revoker is a problem ok...g1 is 50/50 depending you oppo see more wasteland, Port ecc...post side is different warping wail spatial and neddle is very good. 60 /40 for you.

I play basalt last time...i think is a good cards ramp...is problem is decay. Basalt is good when you have a dynamo in play. My conclusion is grim monolith and dynano and 3 voltaic is best combination for ramp.

[MD.Ghost]

12-Post Big Eldrazi			darkghost
Lands (26)	Creatures (11)	Spells (23)	Sideboard
4x Ancient Tomb 4x City of Traitors 4x Cloudpost 3x Eldrazi Temple 2x Eye of Ugin 4x Glimmerpost 1x Karakas 2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth 2x Vesuva	4x Endbringer 4x Thought-Knot Seer 3x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger	4x Chalice of the Void 3x Trinisphere 2x Basalt Monolith 4x Grim Monolith 4x Voltaic Key 3x Thran Dynamo 3x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon	4x Pithing Needle 3x Warping Wail 1x Walking Ballista 2x All is Dust 1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn 4x Leyline of the Void

I slotted in cards for what I didn't have.

The Endbringers were great when I got to untap with them, but they were crappy when they met removal right away. I picked up the rest of the missing pieces except the Bridges.

My problems with Reality Smashers is that they don't solve the Baleful Strix problem, which is quite a dominant creature in legacy.

ChrisDissent and caprino, how do you handle the lack of Basalt Monolith? They were the difference of me being able to cast my spells vs DnT and Revoker shutting down multiple cards (2 Grim Monolith and 2 Voltaic Key in one of my games) and losing. They also bridged the early game to mid game for me quite well.

The build is a good example why we discuss different ideas - you can't expect a deck that runs solid vs every matchup, heck even blue shells have good and bad matchups. The build above is - for my taste - simply overloaded with to many mid-endgame cards. It is okay if you face other fair midrange decks or stomp control decks that cant disrupt you well (against combo we all can struggle since "BigEldrazi" owns answer like Chalice, TKS etc. but have a slower T1 Manabase than other Stompy-Decks). If you want to beat DnT/Grixis Delver etc aka Decks that disrupt your Mana&Gameplan and kill you with a few little dudes you need cards that interact with your opponent befor you reach 8-10 mana for bombs like Ulamog&Ugin...I like Walking Ballista at Main, because it will allow to interact with a lot of Decks and is still a card that can win you the game if you have a lot of mana - its simply never a dead and a nice mana sink too - your opponent (unless a combo player) must answer it and you can still interact in response with it. Cards like Matter Reshaper, Smasher etc. will also allow you to interact with the field and at least give your opponent something to do. Its also not bad to catch some counter&removal before you drop the real bombs.

Overall if you want to improve matchup vs fast disruptive creature decks you must cut some endgame stuff, because in a lot of games you will never reach the amount of mana to cast them or it is too late. That is also the reason i dont like all the list with 3-4 Ugins + 5or more Endgame Eldrazis. It will tend to a lot of dead draws, mulligans and games you skip because you cant do anything with the cards in hand while your opponent play alone.

@ChrisDissent: Blight Herder wasnt to bad at all. Five Mana is more or less low enough to have impact even under disruption. Smasher would be good to, but in this Deck Herder feels better because in most cases it doesnt matter if he gets countered or catch removal. His job is to defend the field and allow to ramp into a bigger Eldrazi the following turns - he can do both well, if you can attack you still have 7 power on 4 bodies. But you need O.Sower (besides TKS) too to get enough exile effects. With leyline, Warping Wail at side its even better.

@Manarocks: I am with caprino here, Grim Monolith and Thran Dynamo with Key are solid enough. You only need more if you pack more high end bombs which - for me - doesnt seemed right because you will still skip some games and the deck have not the problem to win long games or pick up the win after a bomb hit the field. Its always about find the right mix of mana, speed and stuff that overwhelm the opponent. Its nice to draw Ulamog&Ugin if you reach the mana, but its bad to draw them if you need mana and/or defense and its also bad to draw more manarocks like basalt monolith if you need a creature to stay in the game.

[caprino]

@ChrisDissent: side guide vs dark depht,omnitell,infect,bant. thanks

[caprino]

Just add recently notes on Dark Depths and Infect, so take it with a pinch of salt :

Dark Depths :
On the play
Out : 2 Kozilek, 4 Smasher
In : 4 Needle (Thespian, Hexmage, Expedition Map), 1 Spatial Contortion (Hexmage), 1 Endbringer

On the draw
Out : 4 Chalice, 2 Kozilek
In : 4 Needle (Thespian, Hexmage, Expedition Map), 2 Spatial Contortion (Hexmage), 1 Endbringer

Notes : a nightmare. Don’t start without a Needle (in the blind, set on Thespian). Only chance is to gain life through Glimmerpost, and survive the first Marit Lage attack. We just look for opponents mistakes. If they play well, it's hopeless.


OmniTell :
Out : 2 Smasher, 2 All is Dust
In : 3 Warping Wail (Show and Tell), 1 Endbringer
Notes : Chalice on 1 to shut off BS/Ponder/Preordain. Being fast into Titans (Smasher is gonna be too slow IMO). TKS does a great job here.


Infect :
Out : 4 Smasher, 2 Kozilek, 2 Dynamo, 2 Voltaic
In : 4 Needle (Nexus, Wasteland), 3 Warping Wail, 2 Spatial Contortion, 1 Endbringer
Notes : we just can’t beat an explosive start + protection. G1 is all about lock pieces for us. G2, we bring everything we can, dump the Smasher that do little, Kozileks that are not so great, and make room keeping our Chalice and Trinisphere. EoT Warping Wail or in response to their pumping instants. Needle’s first target is Nexus, then Wasteland. Ballista would be huge here as it allows to control the stack to dodge their instant spells.


Haven't kept notes on Bant, but I guess it's not very different from what we do versus Deathblade and such.

Thanks.

Today another 4 0

Vs death and taxes 2 1
Vs miracle 2 0
Vs miracle 2 0
Vs Ur delver 2 0

Very happy

[darkgh0st]

How are your testing so far with this list ?

I'm liking the base a lot, having 26 lands, 13 mana rocks (with Basalt). It feels resilient enough vs Moon Stompy, Lands, and DnT. My meta is widely varied (about 12 different decks) with combo, tempo, control so I don't really want to interact much. I'm just looking for the right cards and proper balance of mid to end game based on my meta.

The build is a good example why we discuss different ideas - you can't expect a deck that runs solid vs every matchup, heck even blue shells have good and bad matchups.

Yup, I hear ya.

The build above is - for my taste - simply overloaded with to many mid-endgame cards.

The original list had 4 10ccs and 4 8ccs. I cut one 10cc and 8cc, and flows a lot better. I can understand cutting another Ulamog.

If you want to beat DnT/Grixis Delver etc aka Decks that disrupt your Mana&Gameplan and kill you with a few little dudes you need cards that interact with your opponent befor you reach 8-10 mana for bombs like Ulamog&Ugin...I like Walking Ballista at Main, because it will allow to interact with a lot of Decks and is still a card that can win you the game if you have a lot of mana - its simply never a dead and a nice mana sink too - your opponent (unless a combo player) must answer it and you can still interact in response with it. Cards like Matter Reshaper, Smasher etc. will also allow you to interact with the field and at least give your opponent something to do. Its also not bad to catch some counter&removal before you drop the real bombs.

I tested 4 Walling Ballistas, he is amazing, but not as a 4 off for me. He can be dead in a lot of matchups still (fast combo) and I'd rather be casting Ugin at 8 mana and Ulamog at 10. I'll try to find which is the right number for me. If I wanted to interact with my opponent I would just play a midrange eldrazi deck. Blight Herder might be possible with Oblivion Sower and maybe Scavenger Grounds, but land slots would be tight. He is a great creature for mid-range.

It will tend to a lot of dead draws, mulligans and games you skip because you cant do anything with the cards in hand while your opponent play alone

It makes it feel like a real MUD deck that way.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

It's not MUD if you can't blame the deck for half the losses.

[caprino]

@ChrisDissent: vs 4c,4c controll,bug shardless,bug delver,bug controll you side same bug you write in side guide? thanks

[caprino]

@ChrisDissent: side guide vs all spell,affinity,tezzeret controll, thalia stompy. thanks

[caprino]

Hi !

For all BUG versions, I'd side something like what I do the regular BUG version.

All my Spells :
Out : 2 Kozilek, 3 Ulamog, 4 Smasher,
In : 3 Warping wail (Dread return), 2 Spatial Contortion (Laboratory Maniac), 4 Leyline
Notes : Leyline => GG


Affinity :
Out : 3 All is Dust, 1 Kozilek V2, 1 Dynamo, 1 Voltaic, 2 Smasher (it’s not about kill them fast but more to stabilize and land a big threat)
In : 4 Needle (Arcbound, Cranial), 3 Warping Wail (Skrige, Mnemite, Ornithopter, etc.), 2 Spatial Contortion
Notes : Bad match up. Chalice on 0, Needle on Cranial or Arcbound is all that’s left for us.
We need to go fast. G1 is unwinnable, especially on the play, as they vomit their hand on one turn and we either can’t do nothing (on the play), or in the blind play Chalice for 1. After that, our prison pieces are useless and they’ll be faster.
G2, we need hate (Chalice on 0 or sol land+Grim+Trinisphere) and shoot their critters.
Needle is highly needed because Arcbound and Cranial can one-shot us.


Tezzeret Control :
Out : 4 Chalice, 3 Trinisphere
In : 2 Spatial Contortion, 1 Warping Wail, 4 Needle (Thopter, Tezzeret, Fayden, Daretti)


Thalia Stompy :
Out : 4 Chalice, 3 Trinisphere, 3 All is Dust (they play TKS/Smasher/Displacer)
In : 4 Needle (Wasteland, Jitte, SFM sometimes), 2 Spatial Contortion (Thalia V2), 1 Endbringer, 3 Warping Wail (SFM, Thalia V1, Revoker)
Notes : Hard match up. G1 is all about speed. The first to land TKS or Smasher will be in good shape. They’re not really annoyed by our prison pieces. G2, we have to land rocks and dodge Wasteland. Keep fast starting hands is also crucial. Spatial Contortion takes care of Thalia V2 which is a real pain in the ass.

Caprino, now you have to give me half of your winning tournament prizes :))

Keep up the good job and have a lot of fun with the deck.

yea haahhahaah thanks

[P210]

[...]

Tin Fins :
Out : 2 Kozilek, 4 Ulamog, 2 Dynamo, 2 Voltaic, 1 Smasher
In : 4 Leyline, 3 Wail (Reanimation spells), 4 Needle (Griselbrand)
Notes : G1 one is random. G2/3 : mull into Leyline or die. Our big guys are useless cause we’re looking to lock them up and finish them one way or another. TKS will do a fine job.

[...]

Any feedback is welcome.

Warping Wail won't help much against Goryo's Vengeance and Shallow Grave...

[caprino]

Warping Wail won't help much against Goryo's Vengeance and [cards]Shallow Grave[/I ards]...

Warping is good vs reanimate