Hi all,
I'm kind of interested in the deck, since I used to play both MUD and Turbo Eldrazi MonoG. From what I read it seems that this deck major problems are
- burn
- combo (although I don't know what kind of)
- losing to itself (flooding/screwing)
Can you confirm that? Is there something I'm missing?
I see that many lists play voltaic key, even if it's a nonbo with chalice, because of ramp power: do you think candelabra of tawnos could be played too? There are times in which the lands provides much more mana than the monoliths, and it can activate eye multiple times in a turn.
Thanks.
Ignorance is strength
Nah, meh, yea.
You can sculpt your deck to answer the first two. (Wurmcoil, leyline, chalice, trinisphere, ect) but I often lost to the last part. Or so I keep saying....
It could be, but key is more useful.I see that many lists play voltaic key, even if it's a nonbo with chalice, because of ramp power: do you think candelabra of tawnos could be played too? There are times in which the lands provides much more mana than the monoliths, and it can activate eye multiple times in a turn.
Thanks.
My new list in test
4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 ancient tomb
4 eldrazi temple
4 city of traitors
2 vesuva
2 eye of ugin
1 karakas
4 Grim monolith
4 chalice
4 trinisphere
4 ugin
3 Voltaic key
2 dynamo
2 all is dust
2 warping wail
4 Seer
3 ulamog
1 emrakul new
1 kozilek butcher
1 kozilek new
What do you think?
Combo matchup isn't too bad usually because you have solid answers to the main combo decks people play - ANT/TES, Reanimator, and Sneak and Show - in the form of prison pieces (Chalice/Trini/Thorn/Wail), Leyline of the Void, and Ensnaring Bridge.
Burn can be tough if they're fast but I've won a lot of matches against burn where my lock pieces slow them down and Glimmerposts gain me life and then I stabilize at low life and win. Azor's Gateway might help out even more with this matchup.
The deck primarily loses to the opponent in three different ways:
- Your opponent's deck is too fast and your lock pieces don't slow them down enough (i.e. ANT/TES/Belcher/Reanimator stealing wins early, Burn hitting you for 20 damage before you stabilize, etc)
- You hit your top-end but the top-end isn't good enough - i.e. you cast Ulamog but they have a whole army of Pyromancer tokens and you're at 2 life.
- You get disrupted out of your top-end - i.e. Wasteland, Dazes, Null Rod, etc. You either get locked out of the top-end completely via a lock (like Loam+Waste) or you get tempo'ed out by disruption + fast beats (like Delver backed by Force/Pierce/Daze/Wastes)
And the deck loses to itself in two different ways:
- You flood out on top-end threats but don't have enough mana (this doesn't happen nearly as much as the following)
- You flood out on mana sources and don't draw your top-end.
So this deck is basically about accumulating the ideal mixture of mana, lock pieces, and top-end threats. If it can build a balanced mixture of these three early enough, it almost always wins. And even if it doesn't accumulate a balanced mixture of these three, it can still win often enough, but it's not practically invincible as it is when the ideal mixture is realized.
- 'Pathy' on MTGO
- Eastern PA player
Candelabra is more all in on the lands, which obviously works well in Cg-post and such. The benefits of key are 'out of the gates explosiveness' like a turn 1 TKS, and the ability to; operate on few lands vs Burn's Price of Progress, have game vs Blood Moon & Back to Basics and bounce back from various gamekillers such as Ruination or From the Ashes.
Also, there is nothing more satisfying than living the dream vs Lands... Turn 1: Tomb, Monolith, Key untap, play Dynamo, Turn 2 Ugin (if you get wasted, untap Mono and drop Ugin turn 3:-) It happens every now and then...
Yesterday I test my list
6 win 1 lose
Win vs jund 2 0.. Grixis 2 1...loam 2 0... Reanimator br 2 1...death and taxes 2 1....4c controll 2 1
Lose 0 2 vs Standstill (mull 5 all games)
What’s your list?
4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 ancient tomb
4 eldrazi temple
3 city of traitors
4 vesuva
2 eye of ugin
1 emrakul old
4 Seer
2 kozilek new
3 ulamog
4 ugin
1 all is dust
4 chalice
4 Voltaic key
4 Grim monolith
3 dynamo
2 basalt
3 trinisphere
Side
4 leyline
4 ensnaring bridge
3 all is dust
3 coercive portal
1 trinisphere
Last edited by caprino; 02-18-2018 at 02:59 AM.
You listed 7 Ulamogs :) Are 4 of them Ugin?
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/946479#paper
Yesterday this list went 5-0, and is notable for having zero mb Sowers or wails. Only 6 mana rocks, too.
I am really interested in this deck. I appreciate as much information as possible and everyone has done a great job documenting the progress.
For the players that are currently testing, could you let us know if you are on the play or draw. The reason I am asking, is that on the draw G1 to TES/Sneak the deck is dead to the nut draw(especially if players know you from the local meta).
I hope to have a version ready in the next two weeks. As I am want to run this deck for GP Seattle.
Yes, sometimes TES and/or Sneak'n'Show just combo out before you can get disruption online. I don't really know of a good solution to this other than to just play enough lock pieces main and in the board and hope to win the die roll and mulligan aggressively in g2 and g3, and even mulligan to lock pieces g1 if you know what your opponent is on.
BTW I love 4 Ensnaring Bridge in the SB for Reanimator and Sneak decks, and it's also good against Lands and TurboDepths, AND decks like Merfolk and Elves.
- 'Pathy' on MTGO
- Eastern PA player
To be fair, even decks with fow up have trouble surviving the perfect seven.
Vs ANT/TES/(Burn) there is postboard Leyline of Sanctity, if you are willing to pay the price of 3-4 SB slots. Doesn't solve the SnT problem, but we have Bridge + random stuff for that.
IMO the clunkyness of leylines (drawing them midgame) becomes less of an issue with Azor's Gateway. Have to admit that card has grown on me the last week.
Last night I played this:
3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Endbringer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Matter Reshaper
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Walking Ballista
3 All Is Dust
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
1 Hedron Archive
4 Sorcerous Spyglass
3 Trinisphere
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
Side:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Warping Wail
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Spatial Contortion
2 ???
I went 2-1.
Round one I beat the Red Prison deck with Moon, Moon on Legs, and Blood sun. He had a turn one moon both games, but game one I played hedron archive and game two I had two Grim monoliths. Ugin closed both games. Game one any manarock wins, and game two if you dodge abrade you'll be golden. (In my case he abraded the first monolith, and I used it to make a 1/1 mana dork, followed by casting a second monolith he had no answer for.)
Sideboard: -4 Chalice of the Void -3 Trinisphere +all non leylines
Round two against storm. Game one he kept a slow hand but I wasn't doing much either. I played a spyglass and saw a hand of five rituals and an infernal tutor and scooped. Game two had turn one chalice on 1. Turn two trinisphere, then a backup trinisphere and all sorts of lock pieces. Game 3 he is about to go off but plays the wrong payoff card (I had a wail for it anyways) and next turn top-decked a trinisphere.
Sideboard -4 Sorcerous SPyglass +2 Warping Wail +2 Leyline of Sanctity
Round three against Maverick game one I drew all the lock pieces and didn't draw a single threat. I think I took out the trinispheres and replaced them with 2 wail and 1 Contortion. It didn't matter because I didn't expect him to knight up depths and stage and there was nothing I could have done. (I could have, maybe, attacked into him and he'd make the 20/20 to block a TKS or my Matter Reshaper but banking on him to misplay isn't really having an out)
Thanks for the responses. I was asking about the Game 1 vs TES and Sneak n Show, just to see if I was missing a line.
I like the idea of using Ensnaring bridge for Sneak N Show.
With the decklists that are running 16 to 18 artifacts, I just start to question if the deck should include Blood Sun and Mox Opal (this is the only legal mox that doesn't give card disadvantage). I know people in the thread want to splash a color. It does hinder Eye, Vesuva, and Thespian Stage. But does shut down greedy mana bases that rely on fetches.
Endbringer (and Bridge out of the Side) works well against Sneak and Show. Trini and Chalice work against Storm
Blood Sun is nah, because the abilities you're worried about can, nine of ten times, be stopped by Spyglass. As for opal, it's also not that great because realistically you can't use it until turn three. A petal would probably be better in that sense.
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