Originally Posted by caprino
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
2 Crystal Vein
2 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Grim Monolith
3 Thran Dynamo
2 Basalt Monolith
3 Voltaic Key
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 All is Dust
SB:
4 Pithing Needle
4 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Trinisphere
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Leyline of the Void
14 cards in side?
Sorry, meant:
3 Pithing Needle
2 Coercive Portal
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Trinisphere
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Aaah the pricey City of Traitors might not be the only choice for this deck . Look at this, we really like to get two mana first turn so that we can play t1 chalice, monolith or trini hence, among the beloved Ancient Tomb, we are forced to play a land which will go to graveyard next turn. Since we are not a Show and Tell which drops City, Petal, SnT and is already set for the win (not caring about the City's trigger while a 7/7 lifelink flyer draw7 beast is on the table) and not a Moon deck which drops City, exiles SSG and drops Moon (saving the City) we DO need more lands next turn and a turn after. So for us City might just be replaced by a 0.10p Crystal Vein. It dies the same way as 700x more expensive City. First hand is a one off 2 that we need to put our piece down, if drawn later...hell it is a tap for 1 mana land with a clause of becoming a double if we need it.
Also, had anyone thought about fast mana Guides - Simian Spirit Guide or Elvish Spirit Guide instead of Cities? Having playset of these we could drop our precious gamechangers turn1 with lands like Glimmerpost, Thespian Stage, Eldrazi Temple. Also it works as a Daze counter or that precious little hidden 1 mana the opponent thinks we dont have to cast a big Eldrazi.
In your scenario (necessity of 2 early mana), City of Traitors gives us at least 4 mana before dieing (2 mana the turn it comes into play, other 2 mana the next turn before landing another land), while Crystal Vein just gives us 2 mana and dies immediately. That's really big I guess.
I'm not indifferent to the budget argument here, but talking about efficiency only, City is way superior in your scenario as you can extract two more colorless manas from it before sacrificing it.
The other solution is to get rid of Cities entirely and play something like Caprino's 30 lands build. I was just wondering if he can reliably cast a Chalice/Trinisphere in time before combo goes off.
Been playing something like 75 games with the previous build, and had decent results (65% win rate, draws count up) but found we have hard time fighting Infect and Sneak Show, amongst the most played decks right now.
Considering dropping the Wurmcoils for something more useful here.
Still tempted by Caprino's latest build as well.
Any feedbacks on your tests in the post-Top era guys ?
I get you...my point is ONLY about t1 important drop for which we need 2 mana - we do need that straight 2 mana whether from City or Tomb or Vein really badly only on T1 - to drop Monolith, Chalice or Trini. I do understand Vein is a poor man's choice over City of Traitors.
What about Guides? Arent your Monoliths or Chalices Dazed as often as mine?
City of Traitors has an annoying drawback but you NEED THE CITY in this deck to make it function properly.
IMHO You need at least 2-3 City of Traitors and I like playing 4.
The ability to just cast T1 Grim Monolith->Key or Grim Monolith->Trinisphere or T1 Chalice etc etc is TOO IMPORTANT for this deck. You need City in this deck!
In my version 30 land city is no necessary.
City is good 2/3 copy in version artefact (monolith, dynamo key ecc...)
In this moment i play 30 land version, i test 1 karakas main deck and i cut 1 thespian.
Yes, of course. In my experience Delver decks are about 50-50 but you need to be careful about sequencing your spells.
IMHO worst thing is landing Cloudpost on the draw and getting it wastelanded. It's really difficult to come back from that against a deck like Delver: their threats are just too fast and if you start assembling mana from turn 2 you just die before getting control, most of the time. Playing Chalice and Trini after they already landed a couple of threats seems pretty pointless.
That's why I never start with Cloudpost on the draw if I'm against Delver.
I tried both this deck and Turbo Eldrazi (green colorless version) against Grixis Delver (which will be the next "tier 0" deck after Miracles' fall, in my opinion) and Big Eldrazi seems largely superior than Turbo Eldrazi (but maybe I just suck playing Turbo Eldrazi).
This top 8'ed a 47-player tournament last week.
// 24 Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Cascading Cataracts
1 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
// 13 Creatures
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
3 Oblivion Sower
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
// 6 Instants & Sorceries
3 All Is Dust
3 Warping Wail
// 18 Artifacts
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
4 Thran Dynamo
3 Trinisphere
3 Voltaic Key
// Sideboard
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 4 Pithing Needle
SB: 4 Spatial Contortion
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
Hi all,
I've been reading this thread for awhile, and tracking some the results for this deck on different sites as they show up. I tested this list against DnT (16 games), Burn (1 match), and UB Omnitell (3 games pre, 3 games post board).
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
1 Urborg
1 Thespian Stage
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Grim Monolith
4 Thran Dynamo
1 Basalt Monolith
3 Voltaic Key
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Kozilek, the Butcherer
1 Big Emmy
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 All is Dust
1 Warping Wail
SB:
2 Pithing Needle
1 Trinisphere
2 Warping Wail
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Spatial Contortion
1 All is dust
2 Wurmcoil
Against DnT I felt very favored post board with the extra removal and pithing needle, and pre-board it can be pretty rough depending on their draw. I believe I went 2-5 pre-board, 8-2 post board. I of course am new to the deck so some of those losses are likely on me. I have experience with lots of stompy decks though.
Against Omnitell pre-board it felt evenish - TKS, trini / wail / chalice are real game changers.
Burn really depended on a turn 1 lock piece into TKS, I won the match 3-0 (we played an extra game). I kept a loose one for fun to see how much I could get away with and loss, so technically 3-1.
I have some questions to people with experience playing this deck.
I see some people cut Ugin, some people cut the artifact package, and some people add Oblivion Sower and I've even seen Endbringer. The most recent post ban winner is going with Matter Reshapers...which also interest me. Can someone explain the reasoning behind these cards? I've come up with a hybrid list I am taking to two small tournaments over the next two days.
Please give some feedback on the list / decisions. Monday night meta is a mix of Show and Tell, Leovold Bug, a lands player, DnT, and some wasteland heavy / maverick / aggro loam decks, the latter few of which I am playing 2 Oblivion Sowers for.
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
1 Urborg
1 Thespian Stage
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Grim Monolith
4 Thran Dynamo
2 Voltaic Key
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 New Kozilek
1 Kozilek, the Butcherer
2 Oblivion Sower
1 Endbringer
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 All is Dust
1 Warping Wail
SB:
3 Pithing Needle
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Spatial Contortion
1 Warping Wail
1 Endbringer
1 All is dust
2 Wurmcoil
I've had fun reading your guys' posts. Looking forward to some good feedback!
Small tournament report. I played the above list.
Went 3-0. The first "round" was with a friend while we were waiting.
vs UB Omnitell
g1: on the draw. t1 thought seize takes out my chalice. I t1 monolith off a tomb into key into tks and see a hand full of 1 drops and a limdul's vault. He untaps and plays a land, passes and I untap monolith and play a dynamo off another sol land. He eot vaults and untaps, plays a SnT, I drop an eye of Ugin and him an Omni. I search for Oblivion Sower and exile his top 4, a cunning wish / emmy and a couple of other stuff. He cantrips a couple turns while i search up for a nulamog and eventually exile his Omni.
g2: I lose to an Emmy off show and tell but it was actually kind of close. I think I misplayed b/c I almost had mana up to newlamog his emmy.
g3: He thought seizes my chalice but I ramp into tks and a t3 newlamog that exiles his two lands. He drops an ancient tomb with an island up and a petal, he shows in an omniscience but I dropped a trinisphere. I swing in and have mana up next turn to search and cast whatever.
I sided in big emmy, an extra warping wail, and an endbringer.
Rounds 2 and 3 were against imperial taxes. I won game ones, on the play, but t1 sol land into monolith into key and either chalice round 2 or tks round 3. The 2nd games I side in warping wail x1, spatial contortion x 2, all is dust x 1, wurmcoil x 1, pithing needle x 3, siding out 4 chalice, 3 sphere, and 1 new kozilek.
Round 4 was against infect.
He won the die and played t1 g elf. I played a tapped cloud post. He plays a noble and another elf, attacks for 2. I untap play a glimmerpost, then play a trinisphere he dazes. He pendelhavens the elf and attacks with trigger on the stack. I play a cloudpost. He plays another noble then attacks, with both triggers on the stack he pendelhavens his guy but I warping wail it. I untap and all is dust. I eventually wipe up after landing a chalice on 1 and he shows me a handful of 1 drops.
I side in spatial contortion x2 warping wail x 1 pithing needle x 2. I take out Kozilek x 2, Ugin x 2, and Sower x 1.
He starts off with a tapped breeding pool. I play a cloudpost. He fetches a pool and plays a blighted agent. I play a glimmerpost and spatial contort on my turn. He plays an inkmoth and a noble. I play a sol land and cast chalice on 1, then trinisphere. He untaps and corrupters my chalice. I contort his corrupter. I untap into a tks taking his become immense. He starts beating in with inkmoth for a few turns but can't pump b/c of trinisphere and activating. I copy his inkmoth with my 1 of thespian stage and chump block, then eventually search up something big with eye of ugin and end it a few turns later.
This deck feels awesome. Its one of the funnest decks I have played in a long time. I originally thought to make U/g cloudpost, or a show and post UG build but I might just stick with this for awhile.
This is currently what I'm testing:
//Lands: 24
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
// 10 Creature
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
// Artifacts: 17
4 Grim Monolith
3 Thran Dynamo
3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Voltaic Key
//Instant: 3
3 Warping Wail
// Planeswalkers: 4
4 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
// Sorceries: 2
2 All Is Dust
//Sideboard
4 Pithing Needle
4 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Trinisphere
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Karn Liberated
I am also considering finding room for more Karns in either the main or the side because he hits colorless cards (read as: mostly lands) and disrupts hands.
"Let go your earthly tether. Enter the void, empty, and become wind."
Why the jump to 4 Ugin vs other options? I love Ugin, just curious. Ive also seen the matter reshaper build place / do well. How do you feel about those?
Seems like most decks want about 14 threats...oddly enough the same as Delver.
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Yesterday i test my new list
4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 vesuva
4 eye of ugin
4 ancient tomb
4 eldrazi temple
3 thespian stage
1 karakas
2 urborg
4 chalice of the void
4 Trinisphere
4 pithing needle
4 ulamog
4 seer
4 oblivion sower
1 kozilek butcher
1 emrakul new
4 all is dust
Side
4 warping wail
4 leyline of the void
2 wurmcoil
3 spine of ish
2 ashen rider
My result 6 0
Win Vs land 2 0,bug delver 2 1, bugr 2 0,Sneak and show 2 0,Burn 2 1, death and taxes 2 0
Pithing needle main deck is very good, no problem chalice.. I play pithing needle call wasteland, vial, Liliana, jace ecc... Turn 2 chalice o trinisphere...
Emrakul new is nice... I play this card cost 8 9 mana...destroy hand my oppo.. Is gg
What do you think?
Sometimes its hard to figure out what changes work because the deck can just stomp other decks hard. Pithing needle is very good in many matchups. Having so many 1 drops seems problematic but I guess since you have cut the City of traitors the explosive t1 drops are less likely anyhow.
The games where you go t1 sol land --> monolith --> key --> thought knought seer are just broken. Even t1 trinisphere is something that you want to be able to do vs say Storm. How differently does the deck play out with no monolith or dynamo? The rocks also get you past bloodmoon but I see that you have 4 all is dust...
Can you write up a tournament report at all? That would be super helpful. Tu hablas espanol? Yo hablo un pocito... yo no he hablado in muchos anos pero si tu escritiera (?) en espanol puedo leerlo ~ I know writing in another language can take a lot longer and is harder. Writing in Korean takes me foreeeever. A write up in Spanish would be super awesome too. Do you stream or anything? Youtube by chance?
Btw Thespian Stage has been super useful for me in a variety of ways, I like having 1 or 2 in the list for sure. With your lands heavy build I can see 3 being fantastic, especially in this new meta (karakas and dark depths everywhere).
After a year of "Thalia Stompy/White Eldrazi/Eldrazi&Taxes" i currently test a lot of other Eldrazi stuff, from UW-Eldrazi brews with Flying tentacle monsters over this "Big Eldrazi" idea with Post-Ramp into 10 Mana dudes. I only have played 15 matchups so far, but i underestimated this deck. It really works and can be quite scary if it hits the right cards. I looked at different lists around here and tried to find a good mix, i like mana artifacts here, because they a) ramp faster b) can generate strong "legacy" plays like turn 1 Monolith, into Key, into X and c) protect from manadenial like Wastelands/Moon etc.
Overall i have a lot of situations that showed me the power of the deck like: Against Mono R Sneak i faced Worldspine go from 16 to 15 and need something against the angry baby army of 3x 5/5 power, i cast Ulamog, exile 2 tokens stall the other and won some turns later. Against a fast Marit Lage i was able to answer her with a fast All is Dust. I even faced combo with a huge amount of Empty the Warrens Tokens and i answer it with Turn 2 All is Dust. Or playing against LftL+Wastelands i was able to still hit Manastones and Lands and ramp to enough Mana to win the game.
Games i lost (Delver/Blade) are more or less similiar situations: They have the answer of multiple force/daze into Wasteland + threats, sometimes the die roll alone decided the end of the battle but this is magic and free Counterspells are always the police against broken stuff so i am fine with it.
I still tinker with different cards but overall the build looks like this:
// 60 Maindeck
// 17 Artifact
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
3 Trinisphere
3 Voltaic Key
3 Thran Dynamo
// 15 Creature
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Oblivion Sower
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
// 3 Sorcery
3 All Is Dust
// 25 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Vesuva
// 15 Sideboard
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Walking Ballista
SB: 3 Endbringer
SB: 2 Warping Wail
Some notes:
-i want to find the right mix of ramp and lands because on of the biggest issues from stompy decks are that you can't manipulate the draws and drawing too many lands or open with bad hands will not work well over a long tournament. Caprino's 30 lands shell seems okay, but i really like the faster ramp with artifacts and the possibility to ignore Moon/Wastelands to some degree.
-i like Matter Reshaper so far, it is a fast creature and gives your opponent something to do - beat for 3 each turn (clique/delver/tnn) is solid enough while you ramp so it can't be ignored, especially if paired with TKS. At least it is also a blocker that will generate some advantage and besides lands he can also drop uncounterable Monolith, Key (ignoring Chalice) or Trinisphere which can all be good.
-i am down with lands, but as you can see i have overall less clunky fatties and ramp with mana artifacts and Oblivion Sower.
-best card at side really is Walking Ballista, it is way better than "fire and forget" removal like Spatial Contortion because it is also a creature, it grows with your mana and is a manasink if left on the field and with Turn 1 Tomb it can even trade with a delver which is fine.
TEAM MtG Berlin
New list I saw, a combination of artifact ramp build plus C/g post pieces minus any green. Just tossing this here for reference b/c it DOES share a lot of the same pieces. It might spark some ideas. Boompile is kind of cute, esp. with Key.
http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD07284W/
2 Ancient Tomb
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost
1 Karakas
2 Maze of Ith
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Thespian's Stage
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Vesuva
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
3 Endbringer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Warping Wail
2 All Is Dust
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Expedition Map
4 Grim Monolith
4 Pithing Needle
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Sideboard
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Lodestone Golem
2 Spatial Contortion
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Boompile
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Sphere of Resistance
looks too messy for me.
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