I've been running this in my local meta for a few months now, and it's been fairly solid.
// Lands
4 [EXP] Ancient Tomb
2 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [MR] Cloudpost
4 [ROE] Eldrazi Temple
3 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 [TSP] Vesuva
2 [GTC] Thespian's Stage
// Creatures
4 [OGW] Thought-Knot Seer
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
3 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 [C14] Wurmcoil Engine
2 [AER] Walking Ballista
1 [BFZ] Conduit of Ruin
// Spells
3 [ROE] All Is Dust
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
3 [US] Voltaic Key
4 [UL] Grim Monolith
3 [UD] Thran Dynamo
3 [DS] Trinisphere
1 [A] Basalt Monolith
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [OGW] Spatial Contortion
SB: 2 [OGW] Warping Wail
SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
SB: 2 [REL] Endbringer
SB: 3 [XLN] Sorcerous Spyglass
SB: 1 [HOU] Mirage Mirror
The only thing that really feels unwinnable that I've faced is dark depths. UR delver and lands are hard, but I'm running 50/50 so far, and am strangely above 50/50 on sneak and show and grixis delver, but that's just probably variance.
The main thing you want to do is stay alive until turn 5, which is why I main deck the wurmcoils. You should not be having trouble with a normal eldrazi deck with those plus a mirage mirror and endbringers from the side. I've been testing the mirage mirror because you can put it in vs multiple match ups : eldrazi, lands, dark depths, sneak and show. As a one of, it doesn't show up too often, but when it does those decks have to get rid of it. It can also defend itself vs artifact hate by copying a land, or something with a cmc above 3 for abrupt decay. It could just as easily be another wurmcoil engine, i just like the flexibility.
The walking ballistae are for decks faster than you, like delver and infect, and are great vs death and taxes; in the mid/late game they are nice mana dumps. I've tried to make the deck mull as little as possible due to mana issues, which is why I have things like a basalt monolith (for example temple + tomb = 3 mana, not an uncommon situation on turn 2, or revokers naming grim monolith and thran dynamo) and a conduit of ruin (with this much mana you flood out so being able to search is good; also search for a fatty under a blood moon when you can't use eye of ugin, cost reduction under a blood moon as well). I'd actually like to maindeck the endbringers, but don't know what to cut; it might have to be the thespian's stages, but they've been good for me due to their flexibility. I don't run planeswalkers despite their power, because eye of ugin and eldrazi temple = only 1 mana for karn or ugin; my top end for non-eldrazi mana is wurmcoil. Eye of ugin is too good not to run 3 of them, so I've skewed my deck that way; it basically means you won't lose to a control deck.
Is Sneak and show supposed to be bad? Serious question because I have yet to encounter it and my plan was just "Have an Eldrazi in hand"
It's not too bad if you play Ensnaring Bridge in the sideboard, imho. They have a tough time beating that card and you can drop it off their Show and Tell.
I'm wondering if we should be playing Warping Wail MD or not...
- 'Pathy' on MTGO
- Eastern PA player
I won't be able to test it this week, but maybe next week.Originally Posted by MGB
It depends. The matchup for Sneak / Show is quite favored to us unlike with OmniSneak. SnT + Omni + Emrakul = GG
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I disagree here and imho find the matchup quite hard.
Having a big dude in hand does not help as they do not trigger on "when enter the battlefield" but "when cast".
A 10/10 which exile 20 cards attacking will have a trouble facing Emrakul. Endbringer does the job well but can be too slow sometimes.
Do not forget that, unlike Eldrazi stompy, it is difficult for us to guarantee an early chalice/trini and they will often cantrip once or twice.
And they can be crazy fast....
I'm inclined to say yes to MD WW, if one can make room for it. There are lots of decks that play poweful sorceries or rely on small dudes for early advantage (Infect Creatures, Hymn to Tourach, SnT/Gambit, Elves and NO, Tutors vs Storm, Thalia and so on...).
I'd say play it in place of Basalt Monolith, if you haven't cut those already.
For Sneak and Show I board in 3 Sorcerous Spyglass, 2 Endbringer, 2 Warping Wail, and 1 Mirage Mirror. At least one of these should be in your opening hand most of the time, preferably the spyglass, so you cut them down to show and tell to win out (and you can warping wail that), though they can run abrades to get out of any artifact stopping them. The endbringers get around omniscience; they will untap with emrakul's extra turn, and do not die to an abrade, but you need to keep some mana open. Kozilek is also good to drop off a show and tell, because you attack first with an annihilator trigger (also your own emrakul if you still run one).
All of those are good choices in that matchup, some of them might be worthy of maindeck space aswell if the metagame is hostile enough (Wail and Spyglass are good allround imo). Even though these tools give us a good fighting chance, I still don't want to face that deck due to the guessing games that happen when they go for an early SnT. Endbringer is solid if it isn't summoning sick, bridge locks them unless they find Cunning Wish, Trinisphere is good if they bring Omni, Spyglass stops Sneak or half of Griselbrand...
Not trying to be negative or anything, but there is a good chance it goes south if we don't have multiple hate pieces like first turn Chalice@1, followed by turn 2... either spyglass with CC open for WW or even better a TKS.
For the record I usually beat Sneak 'n' Show with Ensnaring Bridges.
They're quite useful in the SB and do double duty vs. Eldrazi Stompy and Elves.
- 'Pathy' on MTGO
- Eastern PA player
How many bridges ?
Could you please share your sideboard ?
@Debonair
This is the list he is using and referring to.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/801128#paper
Ok thank you very much.
I'll find some time to test it, because at first look it seems quite difficult against delver.deck...
Hi caprino. Nice results. To help versus Eldrazi, maybe you could fit in 2 Wurmcoil ?
How was the deck IRL ? Are you still on this version or did you try something else since this tournament ?
@MGB : congratz again, such an amazing performance with the deck ! Did you keep your exactly 75 or are you planning some changes ?
Thanks but it wasn't really "amazing". I only min-cashed and I felt kind of let down because I felt like with a few different plays I could have easily made Top-16 or even Top-8. (If I had won one more match I would have had good enough breakers to be Top-12, and if I had won two more matches I would have been locked into the Top-8).
Based on some of the losses I had, I've made the following changes:
- No Emrakul, the Aeons Torn in the 75. I boarded it in vs. the Deathblade pilot in one of my losses and I lost the game with 13 mana on the board and Emrakul in my hand. 15 mana is just too much even in this deck to cast reliably. I also lost games in other tournaments where I couldn't cast Emrakul and it sat in my hand, so I'm just going to have to rely on the cheaper Eldrazi 100%.
- I want to find space for Warping Wail in the 75 in some capacity either in the MD or the SB. I lost to Storm and BR Reanimator in matches I could have won easily if I had even a single Warping Wail in hand post-board. Despite Chalice and Trinisphere, Storm can combo through them and cast an Infernal Tutor or Burning Wish and get Goblins or Tendrils, and I feel as if Warping Wail helps shore that up even better. I lost both my post-board games to BR Reanimator because he cast Stronghold Gambit in both games despite me locking him out with Leylines and Chalices. Warping Wail in my hand would have prevented that.
- I'm subbing Endbringer out for Karn Liberated again, or potentially moving All is Dust to the main in the Endbringer slot. Endbringer just eats all the creature removal that is otherwise dead in your opponent's hand, imho, and it rarely stays in play long enough to make a difference. TKS eats removal too but the difference is that its effect is immediate (you get to take their best card even if they StP it) and much more important.
- I'm going to try Sanctum of Ugin in the MD in one or two of the land slots because I still need to find ways to get my bombs in play and this deck sometimes loses when it doesn't have enough bombs to play. I feel as if Sanctum triggering off an Eldrazi or a Karn or an Ugin can really seal the game up when I can just fetch another Eldrazi.
- 'Pathy' on MTGO
- Eastern PA player
If I wanted to cut TKS would this deck still function?
How many games do you win without it?
I used to play without TKS a while back but TKS just adds too much functionality vs. aggro decks (blocker) and combo decks (disruption and clock), imho. You could try it w/o TKS but I've really grown accustomed to having that disruption MD. Maybe try playing Warping Wail in its place and see how far it gets you?
- 'Pathy' on MTGO
- Eastern PA player
Well 34th out of 711 with our tiers 3 decks is a thing ;)
Agreed on Emrakul, in both versions, she's way too costly.
Warping Wail is a must have. It's never a dead card, it shoots down annoying critters, and almost always has a problematic sorcery to target, even if it's a simple Ponder to refuel a hand.
Preferably in the SB though, 2-3. Is 4 Bridges really needed ? 3 may still do the job. The 4th Trini is really worth it ? Or Maybe cut down 1 Portal.
Endbringer is still an useful tool, but there again, I prefer him in SB to bring him where he could really shine. MD, he's better in a heavier creature shell, as the opponents will throw their removal at earlier threats face. From there, it's pure CA/board control.
4 Ugin + any number of Karn : just be careful to not raise the curve too high. This days, Wasteland + Kholagan + Countermagic is real. You'll often ended with City + Grim Tapped and a 7+ CCM spell in the grave while Delver/Pyro/Angler beat you down.
Trying to help. Keep us informed of your further testings ;)
Nice...write a list you think
I also has same really awesome test games last days with more or less the following list:
// 61 Maindeck
// 17 Artifact
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
3 Trinisphere
3 Voltaic Key
3 Thran Dynamo
// 16 Creature
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 Oblivion Sower
3 Walking Ballista
2 Endbringer
1 Emrakul, the Promised End//Flex Slot, can be another Ulamog/Kozilek/Platinum Angel/Planeswalker
// 3 Sorcery
3 All Is Dust
// 25 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
// 15 Sideboard
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Wurmcoil Engine
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 3 Spatial Contortion
SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap//Warping Wail
Overall list works good, its a matter of playstyle but i like the ability that Walking Ballista is a super flexible card/manasink/beater/removal a lot of decks needs to handle it and it is still fine to kill an unflipped delver with T1 Tomb>Ballista too. I currently also test Endbringer again. Yeah he might be bad in some situations but on the other hand paired with Ballista and other Midrange Eldrazi you have a) more Removal Targets and b) a more Midrange Heavy build that can do some serious work with only 6 Mana (3 Eldrazi Lands). At the end of the day -if you dont run bridge - you want both Endbringer and Wurmcoil Engine as 6 drops. Both can rule some matchups alone. I would never play this deck without Oblivion Sower too. Card alone has some absurd potential and is a great wall too if paired against Aggro Eldrazi.
Emrakul 2.0 is currently under observation. I agree that the old mum with 15 mana is way to hard to cast. The newer version will be cheaper than 13 in most cases and i just want to test a card that a) profits from eldrazi-lands (compared to planeswalkers) and b) fly and c) will do some work in every situation because even with a full field you can lead the opponent in an devastating attack etc. In most situations if we tutor for a finisher it will be Ulamog since he is stupid strong with his cast ability.
Sideboard is okay for me, i still use Needle over Spyglass because in most cases i don't use both together and sometimes speed matters too. Mindbreak Trap over Warping Wail was because i feeled i had more than enough interaction vs fair creature decks, wwail vs combo is okay, but you still need windos to hold up free mana.
Speaking about Graveyard Hate: Leyline again, but i still feel its very luckbased. It can win if its in your starting hand (mull down to it is only wise vs dredge), but it needs a lot of space, dead draws etc. I also lost against lands cause he just removed the first with KGrip and Loam+Waste me after it, draw a 2nd one but wasnt able to cast it was really painfull.
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