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Thread: BigEldrazi

  1. #501

    Re: BigEldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by MD.Ghost View Post
    I also has same really awesome test games last days with more or less the following list:

    // 61 Maindeck

    // 17 Artifact

    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Grim Monolith
    3 Trinisphere
    3 Voltaic Key
    3 Thran Dynamo

    // 16 Creature
    1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
    4 Thought-Knot Seer
    2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
    3 Oblivion Sower
    3 Walking Ballista
    2 Endbringer
    1 Emrakul, the Promised End//Flex Slot, can be another Ulamog/Kozilek/Platinum Angel/Planeswalker

    // 3 Sorcery
    3 All Is Dust

    // 25 Land
    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    4 Cloudpost
    4 Eldrazi Temple
    3 Eye of Ugin
    4 Glimmerpost
    2 Vesuva
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

    // 15 Sideboard
    SB: 3 Pithing Needle
    SB: 3 Wurmcoil Engine
    SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
    SB: 3 Spatial Contortion
    SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap//Warping Wail

    Overall list works good, its a matter of playstyle but i like the ability that Walking Ballista is a super flexible card/manasink/beater/removal a lot of decks needs to handle it and it is still fine to kill an unflipped delver with T1 Tomb>Ballista too. I currently also test Endbringer again. Yeah he might be bad in some situations but on the other hand paired with Ballista and other Midrange Eldrazi you have a) more Removal Targets and b) a more Midrange Heavy build that can do some serious work with only 6 Mana (3 Eldrazi Lands). At the end of the day -if you dont run bridge - you want both Endbringer and Wurmcoil Engine as 6 drops. Both can rule some matchups alone. I would never play this deck without Oblivion Sower too. Card alone has some absurd potential and is a great wall too if paired against Aggro Eldrazi.

    Emrakul 2.0 is currently under observation. I agree that the old mum with 15 mana is way to hard to cast. The newer version will be cheaper than 13 in most cases and i just want to test a card that a) profits from eldrazi-lands (compared to planeswalkers) and b) fly and c) will do some work in every situation because even with a full field you can lead the opponent in an devastating attack etc. In most situations if we tutor for a finisher it will be Ulamog since he is stupid strong with his cast ability.

    Sideboard is okay for me, i still use Needle over Spyglass because in most cases i don't use both together and sometimes speed matters too. Mindbreak Trap over Warping Wail was because i feeled i had more than enough interaction vs fair creature decks, wwail vs combo is okay, but you still need windos to hold up free mana.

    Speaking about Graveyard Hate: Leyline again, but i still feel its very luckbased. It can win if its in your starting hand (mull down to it is only wise vs dredge), but it needs a lot of space, dead draws etc. I also lost against lands cause he just removed the first with KGrip and Loam+Waste me after it, draw a 2nd one but wasnt able to cast it was really painfull.
    Very nice list.

    One question..do you prefer emrakul 2.0 vs ulamog /kozilek butcher /kozilek 2.0?

    I like mindbreak trap in side.

    In this days I test you list.

    I don't love ballista...i think is slow what do you think?

  2. #502

    Re: BigEldrazi

    My local metagame has become more tight/aggressive with lots of Delver, Ant, SnS, DNT, Tribal, Food Chain, Pox etc. Much like the meta is outside of sweden i suppose. Opted not to play 3Spere due to playing more low CmC stuff, wanting to benefit from Eye of Ugin, and cut some high cmc stuff (like Ugin) for a lower-to-the-ground-approach.

    About 25-30 players joined in, four rounds as usual.

    This is what i sleeved up:

    Deck: 60 cards

    4 Matter Reshaper
    4 Thought-Knot Seer
    3 Conduit of Ruin
    2 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
    2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Grim Monolith
    3 Sorcerous Spyglass
    3 Thran Dynamo
    4 All Is Dust
    3 Karn Liberated

    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Cloudpost
    4 Eldrazi Temple
    3 Eye of Ugin
    3 Glimmerpost
    2 Vesuva

    Sideboard:15
    4 Walking Ballista
    3 Ensnaring Bridge
    4 Leyline of Sanctity
    4 Leyline of the Void

    ------------------------

    and a report from what I remember....

    Warmup Round: Rector Nic Fit

    First turn Tomb-> Chalice@1, Second turn Dynamo, Third turn Karn. He scooped.

    He opened with Oath of Nissa. I played Chalice @ 1, 2, and 3 on three consecutive turns. That was enough. No Boarding here.

    2-0

    -------------------------

    Round 1: URW Control/Midrange (Weird anti-delver homebrew)

    Not much to say... saw some Meddling Mage, Reflector Mage and a couple of FoW from a resolved Spyglass. Won both rounds easily on the draw as he had a hard time handling the early stream of Reshapers and TKS, Conduit of Ruins into Ulamog + Kozilek ended it twice. Chalices out, Ballistas in.

    2-0

    -------------------------

    Round 2: UB Landstill

    This is supposed to be quite even from what I've heard and he thought he was gonna have a hard time. What happened IRL was that he countered/discarded my every spell/card in both games. FoW, Spell Snare, Spell Pierce, IoK, Thoughtseize and cut off my high end with Wasteland. Didn't draw any answers. Devastating losses, ended with Jace+Mishras. Hope it was luck on his side, otherwise this matchup poses a real problem. All is Dust out, Ballistas in.

    0-2

    --------------------------

    Round 3: Food Chain

    I opened with spyglass on the draw, he had DRS on field and a hand of Food Chain, 2 FoW, 2 Lands. I name Walking Ballista to stop the potential infinite, he comments "that's reasonable". He draws into manipulate fate, plays Food Chain and soon he drops 9 power on board. I lose in a couple of turns to the flying beatsticks (No sweeper in sight). I suspect he is on Empath > Emrakul. Spyglass out, Bridges in.


    Next game I go turn 1 chalice @1 and manage to resolve some ramp into ulamog, in the meantime he gets to Food chain + Fate for Griffins and Scourge, but no infinite. All is Dust clears the way for Ulamog beats that mill him out, while he chumps with Eternal Scourge.


    Third game goes back and forth, with TKS being countered him dropping Strix + Leovold and Food Chain...and me playing Conduit of Ruin for Ulamog and a Chalice @4 to stop him from playing griffins from exile. Ulamog gets Forced, but exiles Leovold and Strix in the process. Eternal Scourge holds the ground until i find All is Dust to wipe the Food Chain. Conduit beats FTW, phew.

    2-1

    -----------------------------

    Round 4: Vial Goblins (+ Chrome Mox)

    First game I get a quick start with Chalice @ 1 followed by Eye -> TKS nabbing Blood Moon and next turn 2x Reshapers. He manages to get a Vial out and gets to Lackey + some support. He kills of my Reshapers and TKS with the attack step and a cycled Gempalm Incinerator, triggers net me a Spyglass naming the Wasteland in his hand and a new Reshaper, awesome! I follow up with Conduits into Ulamog + Kozilek for the win. Ballistas in > Chalices out.

    Next game... He starts with land+mox into Instigator, double-connects and goes matron into Kiki-Jiki, then proceeds to find Goblin Settler a turn later. I scoop with 2x Cloudpost in play. For boarding, chalice goes back in, Karns and a kozilek to SB, Ballistas stay in.

    Third game i keep a hand of 2x Ballista and 2x Reshaper, Turn 2 i drop the Reshapers with Temple+Eye. He plays a few dudes in his first two turns and Pyrokinesises my Reshapers, I net a Ballista and a Chalice. I draw a Tomb, play Chalice @1 and accelerate into Ballista @2. Some more trades happen leaving him with two 1/1:s and once again Conduit of Ruin for Ulamog does it.

    --------------------------------------------

    Deck felt really solid all the way through the tournament. Sideboard felt a bit narrow, but was intended for the stuff i feared the most, but didn't face... might want to include some more ways to draw cards like Coercive Portal or similiar. Conduit of Ruin and Matter Reshaper were both awesome this time around.

    31 was enough for a 7th place and some store credit.... and what matters most, I had a good time:-)
    Last edited by Tucane; 11-10-2017 at 02:26 AM.

  3. #503

    Re: BigEldrazi

    New 5-0. Was it someone from this thread? https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/824529#paper

    Cheers and thanks Tucane for the report

  4. #504
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    Re: BigEldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocheloco View Post
    New 5-0. Was it someone from this thread? https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/824529#paper

    Cheers and thanks Tucane for the report
    Its a very good friend of me. We discussed the deck (see my last post) last week and tinkert a bit with it. After some quick successful wins he decided to invest in magic online with this deck (quite cheap compared to the paper version).

    He instantly goes 5:0 and made another 4:1 yesterday, so i am sure the list is good enough for the current meta game.

    As you can see above its different from the last builds we have here. Its more about interaction and to have less cluncky hands or struggle vs manadenial. We even think about to cut the 4th finisher slot (flexslot) because if this deck wins it more or less doesnt matter how and last week i also had a game with 16 mana cast ballista, which won the game in the same fashion every ugin, emrakul etc has won.
    TEAM MtG Berlin

  5. #505

    Re: BigEldrazi

    Edit : I thought it was MGB's comment.
    Only real difference is that he moved Trini to the sideboard and fit in MD 3 Warping Wail instead. Intrigued by that cause if I'd move Trini, I would replace it with another direct threat.
    Nice decklist though and nice run online.
    Last edited by ChrisDissent; 11-12-2017 at 04:44 AM.

  6. #506

    Re: BigEldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by MD.Ghost View Post
    Its a very good friend of me. We discussed the deck (see my last post) last week and tinkert a bit with it. After some quick successful wins he decided to invest in magic online with this deck (quite cheap compared to the paper version).

    He instantly goes 5:0 and made another 4:1 yesterday, so i am sure the list is good enough for the current meta game.

    As you can see above its different from the last builds we have here. Its more about interaction and to have less cluncky hands or struggle vs manadenial. We even think about to cut the 4th finisher slot (flexslot) because if this deck wins it more or less doesnt matter how and last week i also had a game with 16 mana cast ballista, which won the game in the same fashion every ugin, emrakul etc has won.
    Thanks for your reply. When do you bring in the wurmcoils from the sideboard?

  7. #507
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    Re: BigEldrazi

    Wurmcoil; more or less every fair, grindy creature matchup. They shine vs Eldrazi Aggro, Burn, Tribal Aggro, C.Pile and Delver Decks. They dont die to artifact removal and more common edict stuff. They only fear white Removal, but even here you can overload with cc6 drops.
    TEAM MtG Berlin

  8. #508

    Re: BigEldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by MD.Ghost View Post
    Wurmcoil; more or less every fair, grindy creature matchup. They shine vs Eldrazi Aggro, Burn, Tribal Aggro, C.Pile and Delver Decks. They dont die to artifact removal and more common edict stuff. They only fear white Removal, but even here you can overload with cc6 drops.
    Thanks, I'm ordering them then...

  9. #509

    Re: BigEldrazi

    What is up with the key - rock split? Doesn't the key get clunky with just the seven mana rocks or does the inclusion of artifact threats like ballista and Wurmcoil make up for it?

  10. #510

    Re: BigEldrazi

    My only problem with Wurmcoil Engine was that if you're relying on it to be your "savior" against creature aggro decks like Grixis Pyromancer or Eldrazi, sometimes it isn't enough - in fact, many times it's not enough. They can make you edict it then they'll abrupt decay a token and you're dead. Or they can just race it with enough Eldrazi. Or they can just bounce it with a Jace and still kill you. I've had all of this happen to me after landing Wurmcoil Engine and I've lost more games than not with Wurmcoil Engine in play. And of course, if they play Jace, or they play Swords, then forget about it.

    I like more All is Dust as an answer to creature swarm decks like Pyromancer, and I like Ensnaring Bridge against Elves and Eldrazi.
    - 'Pathy' on MTGO
    - Eastern PA player

  11. #511

    Re: BigEldrazi

    Other than a Grisslebrand when is Dust better than Ugin?

  12. #512

    Re: BigEldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Other than a Grisslebrand when is Dust better than Ugin?
    It's not...

    I play no less than 4 Ugin MD in every version of this deck and I feel as if it's maybe the best or one of the 5 best cards in the deck. I'm just saying - if you're playing Wurmcoil in the SB as a trump to creature swarm decks, you might be better off just playing extra All is Dust (and of course keeping 4 Ugin MD).
    - 'Pathy' on MTGO
    - Eastern PA player

  13. #513

    Re: BigEldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by MGB View Post
    It's not...

    I play no less than 4 Ugin MD in every version of this deck and I feel as if it's maybe the best or one of the 5 best cards in the deck. I'm just saying - if you're playing Wurmcoil in the SB as a trump to creature swarm decks, you might be better off just playing extra All is Dust (and of course keeping 4 Ugin MD).
    Write you list and side you play in this moment. Thanks

  14. #514
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    Re: BigEldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    What is up with the key - rock split? Doesn't the key get clunky with just the seven mana rocks or does the inclusion of artifact threats like ballista and Wurmcoil make up for it?
    Key easily leads to some broken starts for this deck so if the opponent let resolve it he can't rely on countering manastones. Play enough midrange threats and TKS to get rid of counters, a single mana rock is good, paired with a key it quickly is enough to win with eldrazi/walkers/eye activations without many other lands. As you already mentioned, Key can also untap Ballista or Wurmcoil if needed or can surprise with something uncommon (for this deck) like Ratched Bomb too.

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Other than a Grisslebrand when is Dust better than Ugin?
    Its all about speed (i will answer it more above), All is Dust without any Mana Rocks can be only Turn 3, Ugin Turn 4 (if you are very very luck with the right lands). Profit from Eldrazi Temple and Eye can be critical if you need to get rid of permanents now and not 1-3 turns later. Sure if you have 8 colorless mana at the right spot, Ugin is better since its a wincon too - but see my opionen about it above:

    Quote Originally Posted by MGB View Post
    My only problem with Wurmcoil Engine was that if you're relying on it to be your "savior" against creature aggro decks like Grixis Pyromancer or Eldrazi, sometimes it isn't enough - in fact, many times it's not enough. They can make you edict it then they'll abrupt decay a token and you're dead. Or they can just race it with enough Eldrazi. Or they can just bounce it with a Jace and still kill you. I've had all of this happen to me after landing Wurmcoil Engine and I've lost more games than not with Wurmcoil Engine in play. And of course, if they play Jace, or they play Swords, then forget about it.

    I like more All is Dust as an answer to creature swarm decks like Pyromancer, and I like Ensnaring Bridge against Elves and Eldrazi.
    If the opponent rely use Editc + Decay for a Token (and you still have the other one) you should be in a good spot anyway or already lost (decay would also kill bridge here ). Wurmcoil gets better (in terms of a "savior") if paired with other midrange threats that are able to trump opponents stuff. If Wurmcoil is the only creature to save you until you get ready with Ulamog/Ugin you are right and your opponent will have enough Removal ready. Same is true for Aggro Eldrazi, its already a very swingy matchup but Maindeck Sower alone can be unbeatable for them, paired with Endbringer and Wurmcoil and you have a bunch of cc6 hard counters to reach lategame with Ulamog & friends (note Ugin is not so good vs colorless eldrazi as a wincon).

    Bounce with Jace will be harder with enough other Creatures, heck even a single ballista can be problematic for Jace since it has pseudo haste. Sword/Path/Judgment sure but we never talked about "how good is Wurmcoil vs White Removal", if meta is full with White Decks Batterskull is the better card. Now in a meta full with Grixis (Edict etc.) Wurmcoil feels right - but overall i think 2 can be enough with this maindeck above - we currently test it.

    Quote Originally Posted by MGB View Post
    It's not...

    I play no less than 4 Ugin MD in every version of this deck and I feel as if it's maybe the best or one of the 5 best cards in the deck. I'm just saying - if you're playing Wurmcoil in the SB as a trump to creature swarm decks, you might be better off just playing extra All is Dust (and of course keeping 4 Ugin MD).
    I disagree here but it seems we have different playstyles/ideas with this deck. Ugin as a Sweeper and Wincon is fine, BUT its
    a) a non tuturable finisher
    b) need 8! Colorless Mana and will not profti from Eye (total blank) or Eldrazi Temple (a basic land for Ugin) and will result in a more swingy manabase (more Cities which can backfire) or more Lands/Manarocks which will result in more bad topdecks/starting hands, and every softcounter/manadenial gets better in this case too
    c) in terms of speed a slow finisher because while some decks cant beat it, some are not affected
    d) more than 4 finisher will also result in more clunky starting hands and you will lose more often vs manadenial because top end threats are a blank card unless you are ready to fire something big off.
    e) compared to Eldrazi non "on cast" effect so every counter is alive which is seems not hot enough if you are in a critical situation.


    Ugin is a very good card in a fair matchup IF you reach 8 colorless mana, because you can clear the field and start to control the game until you win the next turns. So if you are at a point where All is Dust is super good and you have 8 colorless Mana too (without any Eldrazi-Bonus) Ugin is better. Most legacy decks arent fair enough here, so you can't pray on them as "meta". If you reached a point in a matchup where you have enough mana to cast any finisher (and in most cases where you can cast ugin you will also have some eldrazi temple/eye on the field too) it more or less doesnt matter which top end card wins. Your opponent wasnt able to prevent the ramp plan. The problem (while we not talk about a tier 1 deck) your opponent will interact with your gameplan, either via disruption, a faster plan or some combo that try to ignore our board.

    Ugin quickly can be the worst finisher card against a lot of legacy decks, simply because you cant cast him soon enough. Heck even Karn will trump Ugin in any mirror game. Rely on Ugin (Walkers) also lead to Bridge as a must have Sideboard tech to support the more controlling playstyle. While Bridge can be strong (Aggro Eldrazi) its a card that will need 3-4 slots and its an artifact - every player will bring every piece of artifact removal against us, so bridge is only good if the opponent was distracted with other artifact cards too. Against elves or small creature stuff like a bunch of pyromancer token Bridge can be dead to. From the current DtBs, more or less none is stopped from Bridge-tech. All can deal with it (maindeck!) or ignore it.

    At the end its all about playstyle - my developed list (see the linked one) is designed to interact with the opponent and try to work even against manadenial and fast decks. It will be weaker if you reached the point where a high amount of top end threats matters, which for me isnt a common enough scenario.
    TEAM MtG Berlin

  15. #515

    Re: BigEldrazi

    Well there's no better versions than the other, MGB has proven multiple times that his list is solid. Just depends on the meta and personal taste.

    For my part, I prefer the midrange approach, for the reasons listed above, and because City of Traitors is a problematic land that stands in the way of our whole plan. I really don't want to up the count more than 2 copies.
    Did a lot of tests recently, and came to a list that's really close to MD Ghost's one :
    -1 Emmy : cause it doesn't have cast trigger and you want your finisher to end the game on the spot, even if it gets countered
    -1 Ballista : perfectly fine as a 2-of imo, removal, mana sink and Ugin fetch to shoot the last PV of your opponent
    +1 Ulamog : so good
    +1 nothing : 60 cards is fine

    SB
    -1 Wurmcoil
    -1 Spatial
    +1 All is Dust
    +1 Warping Wail
    and switch for Sorcerous Spyglasses instead of Needle, but it's just a test. Most of the time, you already know what you want to name and the Spyglass sticks in your hand cause you don't have Tomb or City to land it turn 1. But the peek effect is nice to have though.

    Sower is really cool. Matches with our plan, and can be insane with Leyline + Urborg. It won me several games vs Lands (that previously was a real nightmare as a match up) single-handedly.

  16. #516

    Re: BigEldrazi

    I'll be running this deck at the local tournament tonight.
    I went one two, losing round one because I kept greedy one-landers that were shut down by Thalia, winning round two by boarding in 11 hate pieces, and losing to the nuts draw round three against omni show. (Show Endbringer game one, he has the wish in hand, Show the same Endbringer game two, but this time it's omniscience, cast emrakul Chalice on one both games. He just had the answers.).
    Last edited by FourDogsinaHorseSuit; 11-14-2017 at 10:27 AM.

  17. #517

    Re: BigEldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDissent View Post
    -1 Emmy : cause it doesn't have cast trigger and you want your finisher to end the game on the spot, even if it gets countered
    I mostly agree with your statements above however, I should draw your attention to the fact that there is no Emrakul without cast trigger.
    I should say that I found the following BIG package working best for me:

    2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
    1 Kozilek 1.0 - Annihilator and reshuffling matters
    1 Kozilek 2.0 - Drawing up to 7 and COUNTERING SPELLS matters (most people forget about it!)

    I tried new Emmy 2.0 so many times and there were no games where I could cast it and say that it won me the game. Everytime it was a win-more. I like her very much but she is too cute for this deck.

    @MD.Ghost
    Can you please post how many/which delver decks your friend met overall and what results were?
    Last edited by Cryoclasm; 11-14-2017 at 10:21 AM.

  18. #518

    Re: BigEldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    I'll be running this deck at the local tournament tonight.
    I went one two, losing round one because I kept greedy one-landers that were shut down by Thalia, winning round two by boarding in 11 hate pieces, and losing to the nuts draw round three against omni show. (Show Endbringer game one, he has the wish in hand, Show the same Endbringer game two, but this time it's omniscience, cast emrakul Chalice on one both games. He just had the answers.).
    First round experience brings the question about what we're looking for in our starting hands. As we don't play Brainstorm.deck, I think it's probably the most important part of playing the deck. So perhaps experienced players could enlighten us on what to keep and what to mull.
    I think keeping a one-lander on the play in the blind is really risky (assuming it's paired with Grim + Key/Dynamo), cause FoW on Grim + Wasteland can happen quite often.
    Keeping a one-lander on the draw in the blind is a suicide (Fetch Go + Daze/FoW on Grim + Ponder/BS + Wasteland will happen).
    I can see myself keeping a one-lander only in corner cases : if I know my opponent is on a non-blue and light-on-artifact-hate mana-denial deck (let's say Lands), only if I have a good combination of Grim/Dynamo/Key.

  19. #519

    Re: BigEldrazi

    My new list I test in this day

    4 cloudpost
    4 glimmerpost
    4 eye of ugin
    4 ancient tomb
    4 thespian
    4 eldrazi temple
    2 Urborg
    1 karakas
    1 dark deph

    4 pithing needle
    3 all is dust
    2 ugin spirit dragon

    4 Seer
    4 sower
    3 ulamog
    2 endbringer
    2 wurmcoil

    4 warping wail
    4 Spatial contortion

    Side
    4 chalice
    4 leyline of void
    2 trinisphere
    2 endbringer
    2 mindbreak trap
    1 duplicant


    My result is very good...today 4 0 vs ant, nic fit, death and taxes, bug delver

    Yesterday 3 0 vs eldrazi Stompy, lands, miracle.

    Next time write my report test

    What do you think?

  20. #520
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    Re: BigEldrazi

    You prefer Needle over Spyglass?

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