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Thread: BigEldrazi

  1. #521

    Re: BigEldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by TLK View Post
    You prefer Needle over Spyglass?
    I prefer needle...first turn is more important vs wasteland ecc...Spyglass is good card, in my list don't play city and I prefer start land needle

  2. #522

    Re: BigEldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by caprino View Post
    My new list I test in this day

    4 cloudpost
    4 glimmerpost
    4 eye of ugin
    4 ancient tomb
    4 thespian
    4 eldrazi temple
    2 Urborg
    1 karakas
    1 dark deph

    4 pithing needle
    3 all is dust
    2 ugin spirit dragon

    4 Seer
    4 sower
    3 ulamog
    2 endbringer
    2 wurmcoil

    4 warping wail
    4 Spatial contortion

    Side
    4 chalice
    4 leyline of void
    2 trinisphere
    2 endbringer
    2 mindbreak trap
    1 duplicant


    My result is very good...today 4 0 vs ant, nic fit, death and taxes, bug delver

    Yesterday 3 0 vs eldrazi Stompy, lands, miracle.

    Next time write my report test

    What do you think?
    Seems good based on early results.

    I'm curious if you can beat Dragon Stompy (Blood Moon) with your current rocks-off setup?

    Also have you considered Expedition Map..?.. since you're off maindeck Chalice and playing Dark Depths.

  3. #523
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    Re: BigEldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucane View Post
    Seems good based on early results.

    I'm curious if you can beat Dragon Stompy (Blood Moon) with your current rocks-off setup?

    Also have you considered Expedition Map..?.. since you're off maindeck Chalice and playing Dark Depths.
    Can't speak for Caprino, but in my experience you have an early Thought-Knot Seer to nab Moon, or just use your "Mountains" to cast your board wipes. Also, Sower is good here for ramping into the finishers. Blood Moon definitely slows you down, but Dragon Stompy typically doesn't win quickly so you have time to find answers.

  4. #524

    Re: BigEldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by caprino View Post
    My new list I test in this day

    4 cloudpost
    4 glimmerpost
    4 eye of ugin
    4 ancient tomb
    4 thespian
    4 eldrazi temple
    2 Urborg
    1 karakas
    1 dark deph

    4 pithing needle
    3 all is dust
    2 ugin spirit dragon

    4 Seer
    4 sower
    3 ulamog
    2 endbringer
    2 wurmcoil

    4 warping wail
    4 Spatial contortion

    Side
    4 chalice
    4 leyline of void
    2 trinisphere
    2 endbringer
    2 mindbreak trap
    1 duplicant


    My result is very good...today 4 0 vs ant, nic fit, death and taxes, bug delver

    Yesterday 3 0 vs eldrazi Stompy, lands, miracle.

    Next time write my report test

    What do you think?
    How often do you win with Depths? Ugin? Other stuff?
    Just trying to get a read on how this plays (also, why the Dust/Ugin split the way it is?)

  5. #525

    Re: BigEldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by TLK View Post
    Can't speak for Caprino, but in my experience you have an early Thought-Knot Seer to nab Moon, or just use your "Mountains" to cast your board wipes. Also, Sower is good here for ramping into the finishers. Blood Moon definitely slows you down, but Dragon Stompy typically doesn't win quickly so you have time to find answers.
    Moon Stompy has lots more chances of T1/2 moon vs early TKS in the 28+ lands no rocks version.

    It wins quick enough before you can cast your wipes. Moon Stompy was the reason I moved away from the 28+ lands list without mana rocks.

  6. #526

    Re: BigEldrazi

    I would never play this deck without mana rocks and key.

    If Grim Monolith and Voltaic Key didn't exist, I don't think this deck would even be worth exploring, imho. Monolith + Key lead to the best starts this deck has and lets you accelerate fast enough to beat the speedy Legacy tempo decks.

    Voltaic Key is literally Sol Ring if you have a mana rock on the board - it generates 2 mana with each untap+tap of a Monolith or a Dynamo, and it costs only 1 mana to play. Think about that for a second. If the actual Sol Ring was legal as a 4-of in Legacy, do you think alot of decks would play it? Well, in this deck, it is functionally a Sol Ring (most of the time) that we get to play 4 copies of. It may be one of the most important cards in the deck.
    - 'Pathy' on MTGO
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  7. #527

    Re: BigEldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by TLK View Post
    Can't speak for Caprino, but in my experience you have an early Thought-Knot Seer to nab Moon, or just use your "Mountains" to cast your board wipes. Also, Sower is good here for ramping into the finishers. Blood Moon definitely slows you down, but Dragon Stompy typically doesn't win quickly so you have time to find answers.
    Yes sower help me vs moon deck...all is dust and ugin resolve a problem vs moon.

  8. #528
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    Re: BigEldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by caprino View Post
    My new list I test in this day

    What do you think?
    List looks interesting, quite a very different brew but in the past you also had some experience with lands over manarocks and the thespian idea.
    I think you knew what you do, but i also think its a very different playstyle here. At the end it seems the deck can be build in different direction, which is good for everyone because it seems to be flexible enough to address different meta/playstyles situations.

    We already had the question - why no Expedition Map? Seems "okay" without Chalice and offers needed ramp (or DD-Combo) especially without Manarocks.

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    How often do you win with Depths? Ugin? Other stuff?
    Just trying to get a read on how this plays (also, why the Dust/Ugin split the way it is?)
    I expect its answered a lot during the thread - most of us clearly want to avoid early Ugin-Draws because he only shines if you have 8 real-colorless Mana ready which can be difficult sometimes, especially without Manarocks. So some list play 0 Ugin too. He can be good or very good in some situations but overall isnt good enough to be an auto include for most of us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryoclasm View Post
    @MD.Ghost
    Can you please post how many/which delver decks your friend met overall and what results were?
    So far as i can tell it:

    5-0: Won vs Uwr Control, Predict Miracles, BtB Miracles, DNT; Uwr Control

    4-1: Won vs C.Pile, Elves, C.Pile, Enchantress / Lose vs Canadian

    3-2- Won vs Grixis Delver, ANT, Infect / Lose vs Grixis Delver, Uwr Landstill

    So - looking only at Delver and only on MTGO matches of my friend (still learning the deck) - Delver are problematic, but first you can't expect that a ramp deck break tempo decks if Wasteland+Softcounter+fast Clock are combined. If you look at MGB latest performance he beats more Delver decks in a row WITH a build that should lose more often vs Wasteland+Softcounter alone. At the end we all agree that its not an easy matchup and some hands/draws are unbeatable even if you try to win more often vs Delver decks with some different slots and a lower manacurve. My Delver Matchup is still positiv, but i also got some games where i couldn't win and sometimes only the dice roll decide a match too.

    Overall less finisher, more midrange creatures (like Sower) and more cheap removal (dont count on All is Dust/Ugin) should be good to win more often vs most tempo decks but at the end we will never be favoured here.

    @Dragon Stompy/Moon - yes Sower can be good, but i expect less wins without Manarocks here because even with Sower you need 6 land drops...against some Moon list you are dead at this point. Sower+Manarocks combined made Moons a lot of less scary. Sure if you ramp/survive until 8 Colorless(Mountain) Mana something like Ugin is hard to beat for Moon-Decks, that sometimes also try to hide behind bridge (which is a useless tactic vs bigeldrazi).
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  9. #529
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    Re: BigEldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by MGB View Post
    I would never play this deck without mana rocks and key.

    If Grim Monolith and Voltaic Key didn't exist, I don't think this deck would even be worth exploring, imho. Monolith + Key lead to the best starts this deck has and lets you accelerate fast enough to beat the speedy Legacy tempo decks.

    Voltaic Key is literally Sol Ring if you have a mana rock on the board - it generates 2 mana with each untap+tap of a Monolith or a Dynamo, and it costs only 1 mana to play. Think about that for a second. If the actual Sol Ring was legal as a 4-of in Legacy, do you think alot of decks would play it? Well, in this deck, it is functionally a Sol Ring (most of the time) that we get to play 4 copies of. It may be one of the most important cards in the deck.
    I completely agree. If you're playing a ramp strategy that intends to cast spells that cost 6 or more mana in Legacy, you have two viable options. The first is to run Post, land tutors, and maybe Candelabra (Turbo Eldrazi). The second is to run sol lands + mana rocks (Big Eldrazi).

    Just running a manabase with sol lands + Post is not enough. You can certainly go this route, but you'd need to cut the top end out and play a more midrange game, where 7cc (All is Dust) should be the top of your curve, with maybe 1 Ulamog to tutor for with Eye. Otherwise, you're going to lose too many games because you were unable to make enough mana to cast your bombs before you're dead.
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  10. #530

    Re: BigEldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by MD.Ghost View Post
    List looks interesting, quite a very different brew but in the past you also had some experience with lands over manarocks and the thespian idea.
    I think you knew what you do, but i also think its a very different playstyle here. At the end it seems the deck can be build in different direction, which is good for everyone because it seems to be flexible enough to address different meta/playstyles situations.

    We already had the question - why no Expedition Map? Seems "okay" without Chalice and offers needed ramp (or DD-Combo) especially without Manarocks.



    I expect its answered a lot during the thread - most of us clearly want to avoid early Ugin-Draws because he only shines if you have 8 real-colorless Mana ready which can be difficult sometimes, especially without Manarocks. So some list play 0 Ugin too. He can be good or very good in some situations but overall isnt good enough to be an auto include for most of us.



    So far as i can tell it:

    5-0: Won vs Uwr Control, Predict Miracles, BtB Miracles, DNT; Uwr Control

    4-1: Won vs C.Pile, Elves, C.Pile, Enchantress / Lose vs Canadian

    3-2- Won vs Grixis Delver, ANT, Infect / Lose vs Grixis Delver, Uwr Landstill

    So - looking only at Delver and only on MTGO matches of my friend (still learning the deck) - Delver are problematic, but first you can't expect that a ramp deck break tempo decks if Wasteland+Softcounter+fast Clock are combined. If you look at MGB latest performance he beats more Delver decks in a row WITH a build that should lose more often vs Wasteland+Softcounter alone. At the end we all agree that its not an easy matchup and some hands/draws are unbeatable even if you try to win more often vs Delver decks with some different slots and a lower manacurve. My Delver Matchup is still positiv, but i also got some games where i couldn't win and sometimes only the dice roll decide a match too.

    Overall less finisher, more midrange creatures (like Sower) and more cheap removal (dont count on All is Dust/Ugin) should be good to win more often vs most tempo decks but at the end we will never be favoured here.

    @Dragon Stompy/Moon - yes Sower can be good, but i expect less wins without Manarocks here because even with Sower you need 6 land drops...against some Moon list you are dead at this point. Sower+Manarocks combined made Moons a lot of less scary. Sure if you ramp/survive until 8 Colorless(Mountain) Mana something like Ugin is hard to beat for Moon-Decks, that sometimes also try to hide behind bridge (which is a useless tactic vs bigeldrazi).
    Expedition map is a good card, I think is slow.

    I prefer 4x Spatial and warping main deck vs delver, grixis, elf, death and taxes ecc...

  11. #531

    Re: BigEldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by MD.Ghost View Post
    I also has same really awesome test games last days with more or less the following list:

    // 61 Maindeck

    // 17 Artifact

    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Grim Monolith
    3 Trinisphere
    3 Voltaic Key
    3 Thran Dynamo

    // 16 Creature
    1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
    4 Thought-Knot Seer
    2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
    3 Oblivion Sower
    3 Walking Ballista
    2 Endbringer
    1 Emrakul, the Promised End//Flex Slot, can be another Ulamog/Kozilek/Platinum Angel/Planeswalker

    // 3 Sorcery
    3 All Is Dust

    // 25 Land
    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    4 Cloudpost
    4 Eldrazi Temple
    3 Eye of Ugin
    4 Glimmerpost
    2 Vesuva
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

    // 15 Sideboard
    SB: 3 Pithing Needle
    SB: 3 Wurmcoil Engine
    SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
    SB: 3 Spatial Contortion
    SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap//Warping Wail

    Overall list works good, its a matter of playstyle but i like the ability that Walking Ballista is a super flexible card/manasink/beater/removal a lot of decks needs to handle it and it is still fine to kill an unflipped delver with T1 Tomb>Ballista too. I currently also test Endbringer again. Yeah he might be bad in some situations but on the other hand paired with Ballista and other Midrange Eldrazi you have a) more Removal Targets and b) a more Midrange Heavy build that can do some serious work with only 6 Mana (3 Eldrazi Lands). At the end of the day -if you dont run bridge - you want both Endbringer and Wurmcoil Engine as 6 drops. Both can rule some matchups alone. I would never play this deck without Oblivion Sower too. Card alone has some absurd potential and is a great wall too if paired against Aggro Eldrazi.

    Emrakul 2.0 is currently under observation. I agree that the old mum with 15 mana is way to hard to cast. The newer version will be cheaper than 13 in most cases and i just want to test a card that a) profits from eldrazi-lands (compared to planeswalkers) and b) fly and c) will do some work in every situation because even with a full field you can lead the opponent in an devastating attack etc. In most situations if we tutor for a finisher it will be Ulamog since he is stupid strong with his cast ability.

    Sideboard is okay for me, i still use Needle over Spyglass because in most cases i don't use both together and sometimes speed matters too. Mindbreak Trap over Warping Wail was because i feeled i had more than enough interaction vs fair creature decks, wwail vs combo is okay, but you still need windos to hold up free mana.

    Speaking about Graveyard Hate: Leyline again, but i still feel its very luckbased. It can win if its in your starting hand (mull down to it is only wise vs dredge), but it needs a lot of space, dead draws etc. I also lost against lands cause he just removed the first with KGrip and Loam+Waste me after it, draw a 2nd one but wasnt able to cast it was really painfull.
    Can you share some of your sideboard notes vs tiers, just to compare. Thx in advance.

  12. #532

    Re: BigEldrazi

    Between Force, Swords, and snaps how do you guys deal with blade decks? They countered and exiled all my early plays and would eot snaps to pickup batterskull to take care of ugin.

  13. #533

    Re: BigEldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Between Force, Swords, and snaps how do you guys deal with blade decks? They countered and exiled all my early plays and would eot snaps to pickup batterskull to take care of ugin.

    Decks heavy on counterspells can pose a problem, especially if we are forced to certain lines of play and they happen to have the right answers. Obviously, playing around stuff when possible is key.

    Based on my experience, a great card vs permission is Sorcerous Spyglass. If resolved you get crucial information and the opportunity to lock up equipment/stoneforge/whatever, and occasionally it costs them FoW+pitch. This is as close as we get to playing TKS #5–8.

  14. #534
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    Re: BigEldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by MD.Ghost View Post
    I also has same really awesome test games last days with more or less the following list:

    // 61 Maindeck

    // 17 Artifact

    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Grim Monolith
    3 Trinisphere
    3 Voltaic Key
    3 Thran Dynamo

    // 16 Creature
    1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
    4 Thought-Knot Seer
    2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
    3 Oblivion Sower
    3 Walking Ballista
    2 Endbringer
    1 Emrakul, the Promised End//Flex Slot, can be another Ulamog/Kozilek/Platinum Angel/Planeswalker

    // 3 Sorcery
    3 All Is Dust

    // 25 Land
    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    4 Cloudpost
    4 Eldrazi Temple
    3 Eye of Ugin
    4 Glimmerpost
    2 Vesuva
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

    // 15 Sideboard
    SB: 3 Pithing Needle
    SB: 3 Wurmcoil Engine
    SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
    SB: 3 Spatial Contortion
    SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap//Warping Wail
    I like your list as a base for the more All is Dust centric lists with 7 Eldrazi lands and few City of Traitors.

    This week at my LGS I played a more Ugin heavy list (like the newer MGB/Pathy lists with 2 Karns) and even tough it was ok and I went 3-1 I did not like it.

    I will in future play something more along these lines:

    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Grim Monolith
    3 Trinisphere
    3 Voltaic Key
    4 Thran Dynamo

    4 Thought-Knot Seer
    3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
    3 Endbringer
    2 Kozilek, the Great Distortion

    3 All Is Dust
    2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    4 Cloudpost
    4 Eldrazi Temple
    3 Eye of Ugin
    4 Glimmerpost
    2 Vesuva
    2 Thespians' Stage

    SB: 1 Trinisphere
    SB: 2 Wurmcoil Engine
    SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
    SB: 4 Ensnaring Bridge
    SB: 2 Warping Wail
    SB: 2 Coercive Portal
    Chalice on 1

  15. #535

    Re: BigEldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by hofzge View Post
    I like your list as a base for the more All is Dust centric lists with 7 Eldrazi lands and few City of Traitors.

    This week at my LGS I played a more Ugin heavy list (like the newer MGB/Pathy lists with 2 Karns) and even tough it was ok and I went 3-1 I did not like it.

    I will in future play something more along these lines:

    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Grim Monolith
    3 Trinisphere
    3 Voltaic Key
    4 Thran Dynamo

    4 Thought-Knot Seer
    3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
    3 Endbringer
    2 Kozilek, the Great Distortion

    3 All Is Dust
    2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    4 Cloudpost
    4 Eldrazi Temple
    3 Eye of Ugin
    4 Glimmerpost
    2 Vesuva
    2 Thespians' Stage

    SB: 1 Trinisphere
    SB: 2 Wurmcoil Engine
    SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
    SB: 4 Ensnaring Bridge
    SB: 2 Warping Wail
    SB: 2 Coercive Portal
    You're still playing a lot high CCM finishers (7 + 3 AiD), and have 4 Bridges in sideboard, so maybe MGB's approach is better here, with the full playset of Ugin and less eldrazi lands.
    The list you quoted is more midrange, playing more 4-6 CCM eldrazis, and doesnt rely only on high end threats.

    I stabilized with this list so far, and doing pretty well :

    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Grim Monolith
    3 Trinisphere
    2-3 Voltaic Key (still unsure)
    3 Thran Dynamo
    1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
    4 Thought-Knot Seer
    3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
    3 Oblivion Sower
    2 Walking Ballista
    3 Reality Smasher
    2 All Is Dust
    1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    4 Cloudpost
    4 Eldrazi Temple
    3 Eye of Ugin
    4 Glimmerpost
    2 Vesuva
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

    3 Sorcerous Spyglass
    2 Enbringer
    4 Leyline of the Void
    2 Spatial Contortion
    3 Warping Wail
    1 All is Dust

  16. #536
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    Re: BigEldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDissent View Post
    You're still playing a lot high CCM finishers (7 + 3 AiD), and have 4 Bridges in sideboard, so maybe MGB's approach is better here, with the full playset of Ugin and less eldrazi lands.
    The list you quoted is more midrange, playing more 4-6 CCM eldrazis, and doesnt rely only on high end threats.
    I think that if you play the Eldrazi lands you want to a lot of play All is Dust, as it has a similar function as the Ugins. The choice of playing more or less no midrange except for the Endbringers (which are also glorified Coercive Portals) comes from the games I want to play: T1-3 I play mana and lockpieces and then drop a finisher or All is Dust.
    If you want to play like this you want enough Eldrazi Titans, All is Dusts and Ugins to be able to play at least 2 from turn 4 on (as at least one will have been discarded or will be countered).

    I don't like Ugin (and Walking Ballista) as much as All is Dust as it is considerably more expensive (at least if you play Eldrazi lands), can be switched off by one Revoker/Needle/Spyglass and All is Dust allows me to play more Eye of Ugin, which is also a finisher.

    But in the end it depends on if you want to play more midrangy or more controlish and if you like Eldrazi spells or colorless mana spells.
    Chalice on 1

  17. #537

    Re: BigEldrazi

    I understand why people play more All is Dust over Ugin but the difference in CMC (usually 1-4 mana depending on how many Eldrazi Temples or Eyes you play) is almost always offset by the fact that Ugin functions as a win condition. I've killed with Ugin ultimate (they usually concede) so many times with this deck it's ridiculous. In those same situations, casting All is Dust would only have served to stall the opponent. Many times when I cast Ugin it's the only finisher I have in my hand, and I don't draw an Eldrazi or anything relevant after I cast the Ugin. In those situations the All is Dust would just have been a speedbump for the opponent whereas the Ugin closes the game out by lightning bolting further threats and then Ultimating.

    On another note, has anyone else tried testing with Sanctum of Ugin? It did some nice things for me in a few games when I could just chain Eldrazi/Planeswalkers (if one of them got countered, for instance) without costing any mana to fetch (like Eye of Ugin does).
    - 'Pathy' on MTGO
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  18. #538

    Re: BigEldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by MGB View Post
    I understand why people play more All is Dust over Ugin but the difference in CMC (usually 1-4 mana depending on how many Eldrazi Temples or Eyes you play) is almost always offset by the fact that Ugin functions as a win condition. I've killed with Ugin ultimate (they usually concede) so many times with this deck it's ridiculous. In those same situations, casting All is Dust would only have served to stall the opponent. Many times when I cast Ugin it's the only finisher I have in my hand, and I don't draw an Eldrazi or anything relevant after I cast the Ugin. In those situations the All is Dust would just have been a speedbump for the opponent whereas the Ugin closes the game out by lightning bolting further threats and then Ultimating.

    On another note, has anyone else tried testing with Sanctum of Ugin? It did some nice things for me in a few games when I could just chain Eldrazi/Planeswalkers (if one of them got countered, for instance) without costing any mana to fetch (like Eye of Ugin does).
    I have done some initial testing with Sanctum (No tournament yet), seems good so far. I like chaining All is Dust into one of the Titans, as another route to inevitability. The biggest issue lies in which lands to cut for it... (My current testing build is more midrangey and) I don't want to cut down on City of Traitors... Maybe in place of Urborg/Vesuva? 2-3 Copies?

  19. #539
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    Re: BigEldrazi

    About All is Dust/Eldrazi Lands/Midrange:

    You cant look at only All is Dust or compared it to something like Ugin (its simple, IF you have 8 real colorless mana Ugin is better, but reach this point can be difficult and needs another mana/land config and playstyle). It is true that All is Dust alone dont win the game unlike Ugin, but its not only much faster in most cases to cast, it also comes in my build with a different idea. A much more midrange orientied build will not only have All is Dust, it will have more midrange creatures that act as a wincon and All is Dust is a backup. Sure Ugin offers all in one card, but its still an 8 mana planeswalker and i imagine a lot of situation where i was never in the position to cast him compared to my other cards in hand. I am sure Ugin + Bridges + adjusted Mana work (MGB proven it) but its not my playstyle or i want to win in other situations and accept to lose in games where Ugin or Bridge means "GG".

    For me oblivion sower more or less is the card i like the most, it does so many things and can win on its own if you grap the right lands (Eldrazi Mirror, Wasteland Decks etc.) and i like the fact that it doesnt matter in most cases if the opponent counter it or not and it makes Eye a better way to win the game via tutor -> Wincon.
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  20. #540

    Re: BigEldrazi

    Hey everyone. I think one of you just won on a stream. You have a Balance avatar on MTGO? You beat food chain? In a league?

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