How to filter eternal playables from recent sets

[yugular]

Hi,

I have been more or less away from magic for the past 12 months or so. There have been quite many new sets since Khans of Tarkir which was the last set I was paying a lot of attention to mtg. I am trying to maintain a mtgo collection with most of the vintage and legacy staples and I need your help. Is there a resource where I can easily spot eternal staples from the recent sets? I have been drafting each set since KTK a few times and I want to unload all the junk to bots, but I am not on the top of the current vintage&legacy metagame and I want to spot all the playables and keep them and buy the missing cards.

Thanks in advance
Matti

[Dice_Box]

This early all you will get is hype and a few waves. The signs pick up a bit later on. Right now I would be looking at Thing in the Ice, Gitrog, Heir of Falkenrath (maybe), Anguished Unmaking and Prized Amalgam.

[rufus]

What you're asking for is not easy. It's not like people can spot the "eternal playables" in a set with accuracy immediately. Johnny combo player rares like Lion's Eye Diamond or Amulet of Vigor can take a long time before they're viable in any eternal deck. There are categories of cards that are clearly important: alternative casting cost cards like the delve cards, the pacts, or phyrexian mana are always going to be interesting for eternal. Cards that do unique and new things - particularly ones with low casting cost - are also worth looking at.

[skyout]

This early all you will get is hype and a few waves. The signs pick up a bit later on. Right now I would be looking at Thing in the Ice, Gitrog, Heir of Falkenrath (maybe), Anguished Unmaking and Prized Amalgam.

Invasive surgery is already seeing sideboard play, card is busted against a lot of decks (storm, miracles, lands, etc).

[Dice_Box]

Totally forgot that card is a thing. I am sure after I lose my Loams to it I will not forget.

[iatee]

I really wouldn't worry about this. Cards that are *only* eternal playable but are produced in Standard-quantities are going to be cheap because the supply is so much larger than the demand. You can pick up Deathrites for 2 tix online.

New cards that will be expensive are the ones that are Legacy *and* Modern playable e.g. Snapcaster so you'll need to pay more attention to Modern than Legacy honestly.

[Dice_Box]

Yes, but the break though from Modern to Legacy is limited. Kalitas, Kolagans Command, Pia and Kiran, Goblin Dark-Dwellers... and that is just cards that go into Grixis in Modern. That and muddy the waters.

[MaximumC]

If you want to find eternal playables in a newer set that has not yet seen play to demonstrate power, here's your guide.

1. Does this card have a casting cost that sees play in eternal?
This varies by color. 1U sees a lot of play. 3UUU does not. 4GGG however, could due to cards that cheat out green creatures.

If so...

2. Does this card do something that is already a playable effect in eternal?
Common examples include: creating a game-winning combo with some other card, cheating permanents into play, tutoring, countering spells, taxing your opponent, targeted discard, drawing cards, etc.

If so...

3. If this card is a creature, does it die to removal?
Put another way, can the creature be answered by a single removal effect that is substantially cheaper than the creature itself? Cards that do not "die to removal" are either so cheap that you don't mind trading them for a card in your opponent's hand (Goblin Guide) or generate an effect that benefits you even if they are removed (Thragtusk).

If not, or the card is not a creature...

4. Is this card (almost always) worse than an existing, similar card?
We might play Shock if Lightning Bolt didn't exist. We used to play Terravore when Knight of the Reliquary doesn't exist.

If so, then congratulations, the card is probably eternal playable. Now, whether it actually sees play or not depends on much more than whether it's playable, so this is no guarantee the card is good. But, if the card fails these tests, then you're probably safe in assuming it is not eternal playable.

By way of illustration, take Tireless Tracker:

1. Does this card have a casting cost that sees play in eternal?
Yes. 2G is played in Elves at least. Similar costs, like 1WG (Reliquary), are played in the same kind of deck that would want Tracker.
2. Does this card do something that is already a playable effect in eternal?
Yes. Both vertical growth and drawing cards are eternal effects.
3. If this card is a creature, does it die to removal?
Situationally, no. As long as you play a land, you will get some benefit from this creature.
4. Is this card (almost always) worse than an existing, similar card?
Situationally, no. Knight of the Reliquary, Terravore, Countryside Crusher are all possible comparisons. Knight is better if you're in white, but Knight cannot draw you gas. If you've got a toolbox land deck, however, Knight overcomes this weakeness and is probably flat out better. The colors don't matter because of the three removals that care about color (Deathmark, Virtue's Ruin, Nature's Ruin) no one plays Virtue's Ruin and the other two kill both.

Verdict: Tracker is playable but not in a deck that runs White and uses toolbox lands for its effects.

[Octopusman]

If you want to find eternal playables in a newer set that has not yet seen play to demonstrate power, here's your guide.

1. Does this card have a casting cost that sees play in eternal?
This varies by color. 1U sees a lot of play. 3UUU does not. 4GGG however, could due to cards that cheat out green creatures.

If so...

2. Does this card do something that is already a playable effect in eternal?
Common examples include: creating a game-winning combo with some other card, cheating permanents into play, tutoring, countering spells, taxing your opponent, targeted discard, drawing cards, etc.

If so...

3. If this card is a creature, does it die to removal?
Put another way, can the creature be answered by a single removal effect that is substantially cheaper than the creature itself? Cards that do not "die to removal" are either so cheap that you don't mind trading them for a card in your opponent's hand (Goblin Guide) or generate an effect that benefits you even if they are removed (Thragtusk).

If not, or the card is not a creature...

4. Is this card (almost always) worse than an existing, similar card?
We might play Shock if Lightning Bolt didn't exist. We used to play Terravore when Knight of the Reliquary doesn't exist.

If so, then congratulations, the card is probably eternal playable. Now, whether it actually sees play or not depends on much more than whether it's playable, so this is no guarantee the card is good. But, if the card fails these tests, then you're probably safe in assuming it is not eternal playable.

By way of illustration, take Tireless Tracker:

1. Does this card have a casting cost that sees play in eternal?
Yes. 2G is played in Elves at least. Similar costs, like 1WG (Reliquary), are played in the same kind of deck that would want Tracker.
2. Does this card do something that is already a playable effect in eternal?
Yes. Both vertical growth and drawing cards are eternal effects.
3. If this card is a creature, does it die to removal?
Situationally, no. As long as you play a land, you will get some benefit from this creature.
4. Is this card (almost always) worse than an existing, similar card?
Situationally, no. Knight of the Reliquary, Terravore, Countryside Crusher are all possible comparisons. Knight is better if you're in white, but Knight cannot draw you gas. If you've got a toolbox land deck, however, Knight overcomes this weakeness and is probably flat out better. The colors don't matter because of the three removals that care about color (Deathmark, Virtue's Ruin, Nature's Ruin) no one plays Virtue's Ruin and the other two kill both.

Verdict: Tracker is playable but not in a deck that runs White and uses toolbox lands for its effects.

Sticky?

[Fox]

Lots of solid suggestions so far; if you want to go a little off the beaten path, I would suggest targeted drafting of the following for those that play Limited:

On the more budget side of things, I would add around 1-2 copies of: Clip Wings, Declaration in Stone, Dual Shot, Duskwatch Recruiter, Geistblast, Harness the Storm, Inexorable Blob, Merciless Resolve, Pick the Brain, Prized Amalgam, Root Out, To the Slaughter, Essence Flux, and Traverse the Ulvenwald (gamble #5 for lands?).

For cube use Kindly Stranger is a pretty fun Nekrataal, all of the show-lands, and Westvale Abbey for some spice. If you like the really like the madness mechanic Alms of the Vein, Falkenrath Gorger, Asylum Visitor, Just the Wind, Murderous Compulsion, Nagging Thoughts, Sinister Concoction, and Welcome to the Fold could all be playable.

Cards like Relentless Dead, Rattlechains, Falkenrath Gorger, Silverfur Partisan, and Ulvenwald Mysteries (this last two are pretty suspect) all have build-around potential, but do not go into any deck yet. Going back to the drafting comment in the beginning of the post, I find a lot of success in Limited by looking at each pack and asking "which card, in my colors, is the least embarrassing to put in a legacy deck" and generally going with it.

[bruizar]

Hi,

I have been more or less away from magic for the past 12 months or so. There have been quite many new sets since Khans of Tarkir which was the last set I was paying a lot of attention to mtg. I am trying to maintain a mtgo collection with most of the vintage and legacy staples and I need your help. Is there a resource where I can easily spot eternal staples from the recent sets? I have been drafting each set since KTK a few times and I want to unload all the junk to bots, but I am not on the top of the current vintage&legacy metagame and I want to spot all the playables and keep them and buy the missing cards.

Thanks in advance
Matti

scrape mtgtop8/scg/wotc deck lists
filter by format=legacy
optionally filter by date AND/OR set
for each line
map key:value
reduce using a sum function to get an aggregate
Start hunting for cards with the highest frequencies first and work your way to the bottom

:X

[MaximumC]

scrape mtgtop8/scg/wotc deck lists
filter by format=legacy
optionally filter by date AND/OR set
for each line
map key:value
reduce using a sum function to get an aggregate
Start hunting for cards with the highest frequencies first and work your way to the bottom

:X

This will capture the playables with a home, but there's two problems with this evidence-driven approach:

1) It does not capture unique cards that are worth having because they may have a home in the future (Amulet of Vigor pre-Bloom)
2) It won't help you notice playables during the time before they get played, and thus you might have to pay a premium. Legacy-playable cards are also very powerful in Modern and Standard (though, not always) and so are subject to spikes.

[bruizar]

This will capture the playables with a home, but there's two problems with this evidence-driven approach:

1) It does not capture unique cards that are worth having because they may have a home in the future (Amulet of Vigor pre-Bloom)
2) It won't help you notice playables during the time before they get played, and thus you might have to pay a premium. Legacy-playable cards are also very powerful in Modern and Standard (though, not always) and so are subject to spikes.

It's rather simple. Just know every damn card evaluate new abilities by referencing them to existing cards. Also helps if you understand game design. Jace, Vryn's Prodigy was a prime speculation target for instance because there were no comparables. I'm guessing something with clue tokens is bound to get playtime too.

But the card that will eventually catch on to other players is Serum Powder. That card is going to be at least €100 for a foil version. The reason it hasn't caught on yet is because you need a statistics background to evaluate the card properly. I'll give you a hint. It's the only draw 7 that costs less than Contract From Below.

[yugular]

Thanks for the input so far! Few good tips.

[MaximumC]

But the card that will eventually catch on to other players is Serum Powder. That card is going to be at least €100 for a foil version. The reason it hasn't caught on yet is because you need a statistics background to evaluate the card properly. I'll give you a hint. It's the only draw 7 that costs less than Contract From Below.

Not to kick sand into the all-seeing eye, but it's a pretty big stretch to compare Serum Powder to Contract from Below. Powder provides a very powerful effect but only during a very narrow window of the game, and then it punishes you for that opportunity by being a poop card if you have it stuck in your hand afterwards. Contract (or Wheel or whatever other Draw 7) is as back-breaking whether you have it turn 1 or turn 10. Powder sucks if you draw 7 and want to keep them, because you basically just mulled to 6. It's a terrible topdeck.

It is playable and it sees play in decks (like Dredge) that really need to ensure they have critical cards in their opening hands. It's clearly playable and the effect is clearly strong and unique. That's a recipe for steady growth (barring a reprint in Eternal Masters) but it's silly to claim that everyone is just too dumb to realize it's a 100 dolla card.

[bruizar]

Not to kick sand into the all-seeing eye, but it's a pretty big stretch to compare Serum Powder to Contract from Below. Powder provides a very powerful effect but only during a very narrow window of the game, and then it punishes you for that opportunity by being a poop card if you have it stuck in your hand afterwards. Contract (or Wheel or whatever other Draw 7) is as back-breaking whether you have it turn 1 or turn 10. Powder sucks if you draw 7 and want to keep them, because you basically just mulled to 6. It's a terrible topdeck.

It is playable and it sees play in decks (like Dredge) that really need to ensure they have critical cards in their opening hands. It's clearly playable and the effect is clearly strong and unique. That's a recipe for steady growth (barring a reprint in Eternal Masters) but it's silly to claim that everyone is just too dumb to realize it's a 100 dolla card.

Definitely a true statement and my post leans slightly on the side of hyperbole. However, being able to get ~98% probabilities of drawing sideboard hate is both incredible especially for decks that lack good draw engines. Decks like eldrazi thrive on explosive hands but are severely punished for keeping slower hands as they have no good way to draw into more gas. Exiling double legendary lands creates a more stable post-mulligan game while also fixing the colorless requirement through things like blood moon, should you draw powder later. IMO Serum Powder is able to climb out of the shadows of niche decks and into the mainstream. Keep in mind that modern has access to serum powder as well, and the effect is potentially much more powerful there.