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Thread: EDH format generic question

  1. #1
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    EDH format generic question

    Hey folks. I dipped both feet in and waded out into the waters of EDH last year, and I have to say that I was fairly turned off. The issue that I came away with was that all of the games tended to end up the same. We played games of 4-6 players. The game would almost inevitably end when a player was able to get something ridiculous like Omniscience or Rise of the Dark Realms or something absurd like that to end the game. Me simply editing my deck to prevent that sort of foregone conclusion only weakened my own deck since my impact on the game is diminished by the number of players. The other players' response to the effectiveness of Worldfire, Enter the Infinite, and the other aforementioned cards was simply to play those cards themselves.

    woo fecking hoo...

    Can anyone offer me a solution to this dilemma? Is this the direction that all local EDH metas take? Is it a phase that the meta will pass through when players learn to cope with such giant spells more effectively?
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  2. #2
    Hamburglar Hlelpler
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    Re: EDH format generic question

    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    Hey folks. I dipped both feet in and waded out into the waters of EDH last year, and I have to say that I was fairly turned off. The issue that I came away with was that all of the games tended to end up the same. We played games of 4-6 players. The game would almost inevitably end when a player was able to get something ridiculous like Omniscience or Rise of the Dark Realms or something absurd like that to end the game. Me simply editing my deck to prevent that sort of foregone conclusion only weakened my own deck since my impact on the game is diminished by the number of players. The other players' response to the effectiveness of Worldfire, Enter the Infinite, and the other aforementioned cards was simply to play those cards themselves.

    woo fecking hoo...

    Can anyone offer me a solution to this dilemma? Is this the direction that all local EDH metas take? Is it a phase that the meta will pass through when players learn to cope with such giant spells more effectively?
    You need better friends, Worldfire is banned. ;)

    That aside though, the 2-card combo nature of the format gets really sticky the more players there are, it's true. This is where we're all supposed to turn to our buds and go, "look guys, I don't enjoy games where someone just casts Tooth and Nail and wins, can we please aim more towards (something else)" if it's your friends, hopefully that does it; if it's PUGs, may C'thun have mercy on your soul - those discussions generally degenerate into "no, YOUR 2 card combo sucks! Mine is TOTALLY FAIR"
    Quote Originally Posted by Dissection View Post
    Creature type - 'Fuck you mooooooom'
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    EDIT: Tsumi, you are silly.

  3. #3
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    Re: EDH format generic question

    And stick to 3-4 player games.

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    Re: EDH format generic question

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    And stick to 3-4 player games.
    Yeah if you're playing 6 man games I don't care what format you're building against, you're probably not going to have a good time trying to run control
    Quote Originally Posted by Dissection View Post
    Creature type - 'Fuck you mooooooom'
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    EDIT: Tsumi, you are silly.

  5. #5
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    Re: EDH format generic question

    Tsumi, 3-headed giant, Legacy-style is very fun. My group has been doing it for many years now. We wander into other formats often, but we always seem to return to gold old Legacy. It's great for us since we have been playing for so long, and enjoy using our old cards with new ones. And control is definitely possible. Scott occasionally plays decks that are dedicated control - literally without a wincon. And those decks are very effective. That fucker.
    "Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
    "Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
    "Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
    "Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."

  6. #6

    Re: EDH format generic question

    This format tends to chase its tail a bit in terms of combos that win the game and things that stop said combos. As soon as someone figures out how to deal with something, it becomes an arms race to find the "next best thing." I will say that it tends to settle on a precarious balance when the decks in your pod become more tuned. Unfortunately, two card combos remain the best way to wrap up a six player pod.

    Combo tends to be weak to prison in EDH. If things remain silly, put together Gaddock Teeg and show the other players why he puts the "stax" in Grandpa Stax.

  7. #7
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    Re: EDH format generic question

    Quote Originally Posted by Baumeister View Post
    This format tends to chase its tail a bit in terms of combos that win the game and things that stop said combos. As soon as someone figures out how to deal with something, it becomes an arms race to find the "next best thing." I will say that it tends to settle on a precarious balance when the decks in your pod become more tuned. Unfortunately, two card combos remain the best way to wrap up a six player pod.
    I mean, it's not hard to just always build in a 2-card durdly combo when Tooth and Nail is a thing, the format is replete with tutors and 9 mana is not an unusual feat. The oddities of the format's blessed banlist practically beg the question as to why you don't have your own house rules regarding shenanigans. It really does just trickle down to the next best combo every time something gets axed.

    Really the thing to do when you get tired of this shit is to set the expectation for your group. I can't remember who proposed this as a fix -- Zilla, aggro-zombies, someone smarter than me -- but basically if someone is just being suuuuper dumb and always comboing out even if you ask them to build against the group's expectations, you basically go "Congratulations, you got your 2-card combo off! You won! The rest of us are going to play this game out now." and then the rest of you play out the game.

    Combo tends to be weak to prison in EDH. If things remain silly, put together Gaddock Teeg and show the other players why he puts the "stax" in Grandpa Stax.
    QFT. Even with all the mana rocks and ramp in the world, nobody wants to play through Lodestone Golem, Thalia, etc. Hell, there's a bad elephant from the first Ravnica block that makes people either pay for their spells or sac a permanent, that guy is a fucking douche (pachydouche?) if he comes down with timing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dissection View Post
    Creature type - 'Fuck you mooooooom'
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    EDIT: Tsumi, you are silly.

  8. #8

    Re: EDH format generic question

    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    I mean, it's not hard to just always build in a 2-card durdly combo when Tooth and Nail is a thing, the format is replete with tutors and 9 mana is not an unusual feat. The oddities of the format's blessed banlist practically beg the question as to why you don't have your own house rules regarding shenanigans. It really does just trickle down to the next best combo every time something gets axed.
    This is a mentality I hear a lot. Yes, Tooth and Nail is a thing and it tends to end the game on the spot. But there are cards that exist to stop shenanigans - Torpor Orb and the creature variants, Humility, Aven Mindcensor, Stranglehold, and practically any counterspell in the game. I guess I'm not a fan of the "ban things you don't like" rule because it sets a dangerous precedent. Somebody told me they house-banned Multani, Maro-Sorcerer because the player put boots on him and smacked someone for lethal commander damage. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. If you have someone in your playgroup who likes to ramp into T&N every game, that represents an extremely linear strategy that's very susceptible to cheap hate. Put a deck together that finds and plays Containment Priest and lock that player out of the game.

    I'm not trying to harp on people's hate for how swingy this format can seem. I get that you put time and effort into making your deck and playing a game and it sucks when someone Kiki-Jiki/Pestermites you off the back of a 9-mana spell. But that's the reality. There are ways to fight these cards.

    Really the thing to do when you get tired of this shit is to set the expectation for your group. I can't remember who proposed this as a fix -- Zilla, aggro-zombies, someone smarter than me -- but basically if someone is just being suuuuper dumb and always comboing out even if you ask them to build against the group's expectations, you basically go "Congratulations, you got your 2-card combo off! You won! The rest of us are going to play this game out now." and then the rest of you play out the game.
    This actually works.

    QFT. Even with all the mana rocks and ramp in the world, nobody wants to play through Lodestone Golem, Thalia, etc. Hell, there's a bad elephant from the first Ravnica block that makes people either pay for their spells or sac a permanent, that guy is a fucking douche (pachydouche?) if he comes down with timing.
    Definitely pachydouche.

  9. #9
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    Re: EDH format generic question

    Quote Originally Posted by Baumeister View Post
    Somebody told me they house-banned Multani, Maro-Sorcerer because the player put boots on him and smacked someone for lethal commander damage.
    Well... that player clearly cheated.
    Last edited by Ace/Homebrew; 05-24-2016 at 12:36 AM.

  10. #10
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    Re: EDH format generic question

    Quote Originally Posted by tsumi
    Really the thing to do when you get tired of this shit is to set the expectation for your group. I can't remember who proposed this as a fix -- Zilla, aggro-zombies, someone smarter than me -- but basically if someone is just being suuuuper dumb and always comboing out even if you ask them to build against the group's expectations, you basically go "Congratulations, you got your 2-card combo off! You won! The rest of us are going to play this game out now." and then the rest of you play out the game.
    It's a friendly environment. But that is a very good idea.
    "Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
    "Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
    "Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
    "Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."

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