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Thread: PVD: How to Convince Your Opponent to Hand You the Game

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    PVD: How to Convince Your Opponent to Hand You the Game

    http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...-you-the-game/

    Great article on the nuances of bluffing. Some really good videos and discussion, and relevant Legacy examples. Great read.

  2. #2

    Re: PVD: How to Convince Your Opponent to Hand You the Game

    Bluffing is drastically under-appreciated in Magic. A lot of players even consider it "dirty" or "cheating".

    I've had some pretty good bluffing moments. Finicking with my lands to make it look like I momentarily forget about the counterspell in my hand before deciding to leave the two blue open. Draw that perfect "combat trick" (ie, land), smile and move right to combat, swing with everything into bad blocks, watch it all get through. "Snap keep" slow hands while playing a combo deck, watch the opponent mulligan away trying to find a Turn 1 Force. A little goes a long ways sometimes, and good poker faces are a rare thing to find in Magic players.

    Although a lot of times my opponent is just so self-absorbed they don't even realize the great work I am doing to psychologically manipulate them, and all I'm really doing is bluffing myself...

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    Re: PVD: How to Convince Your Opponent to Hand You the Game

    That was a fun, well-researched read. I love winning via jedi.
    "Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
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  4. #4

    Re: PVD: How to Convince Your Opponent to Hand You the Game

    Bluffing only works on high-level opponents, though. Some of us just go for it all the time always. Ain't no bluffin' when you face Leeeroorrryyyy Jenkins!

  5. #5

    Re: PVD: How to Convince Your Opponent to Hand You the Game

    Nah... Bluffing works everywhere and people do it alot (even casuals and fnm folks)

    You dont have to be a JEDI to present a topdecked land for value!
    Ofc you always leave UU open if you can...
    Waiting in online magic even if you already know what to do...
    In Multiplayer its even better - bluffing bad boardstates - so you dont have aggro xD

    The thing is that the really good bluffs (and not the obvious) are rare.
    “Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

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    Re: PVD: How to Convince Your Opponent to Hand You the Game

    Bluffing your way to a game win is the ultimate example, but I remember learning early about the price you pay for giving free information to your opponent.
    For example, in a true beginner vanilla and evergreen only teaching cardpool, you have your 2/2 out, a land card in hand and you draw a 3/3 for turn. A fine line of play would be to play your land for turn, tap out and play your creature, then attack for 2. You have your land drop, your blocker, all's well. But you've also revealed your hand to your opponent before attacking. Letting him choose blockers with perfect information. That rather by attacking first with two cards in hand offered a better chance of a bad decision by your opponent.
    In my experience, that's the dividing line between a quality or poor pilot of the more straightforward decks like RUG Delver. When they get a early Insectile Aberration, then play a Goyf and then attack, all while sitting across from a mostly unknown opponent allows me to choose my lines of play that much better. And in the high octane decks of Legacy, that'll be all it takes to turn a match win.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

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    The crazy nastyass honey badger

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    Re: PVD: How to Convince Your Opponent to Hand You the Game

    Great article!

  8. #8

    Re: PVD: How to Convince Your Opponent to Hand You the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Begle1 View Post
    Bluffing is drastically under-appreciated in Magic. A lot of players even consider it "dirty" or "cheating".

    I've had some pretty good bluffing moments. Finicking with my lands to make it look like I momentarily forget about the counterspell in my hand before deciding to leave the two blue open. Draw that perfect "combat trick" (ie, land), smile and move right to combat, swing with everything into bad blocks, watch it all get through. "Snap keep" slow hands while playing a combo deck, watch the opponent mulligan away trying to find a Turn 1 Force. A little goes a long ways sometimes, and good poker faces are a rare thing to find in Magic players.

    Although a lot of times my opponent is just so self-absorbed they don't even realize the great work I am doing to psychologically manipulate them, and all I'm really doing is bluffing myself...
    My favorite bluffs were always in Standard (before I quit that format), I played Heroic for the two years it was legal and almost every time I would run my 1/2 into an 0/3 sylvan caryatid or sometimes even a 3/3 fleecemane even though I had nothing to pump him. They almost never blocked. I like decks like that, where it's important to maintain the illusion of strength, because once you know they don't have it, the deck folds. I think the closest deck to that in Legacy is Infect.

    On the last part of your post, there's an article also by PV but from a year or two ago that I would suggest is a good companion to this piece where he writes about signals and making sure your opponent is picking up on them. Sometimes the signals you're sending aren't the signals your opponent is seeing. There was an amusing cardboard crack comic about this concept as well.

  9. #9

    Re: PVD: How to Convince Your Opponent to Hand You the Game

    Another cool thing: Deckbuilding/Sideboarding Bluffs. Stuff like playing only 1 Daze and watch the Opp play around it all 3 games...
    “Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

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    Re: PVD: How to Convince Your Opponent to Hand You the Game

    This one isn't exactly a bluff, but it prevents you from giving away extra information. Whenever you sideboard, you should shuffle your entire sideboard into your deck, and then go through and pick out all the cards that you want to return to your sideboard. This way, your opponent doesn't know how many cards you're bringing in, if any. It also helps make sure that your sideboard card sleeves are shuffled about as much as your maindeck sleeves.

    Maybe they will even think that you're brining in 15 cards against them. If they're playing a combo deck or something that's particularly vulnerable to hate, it might make them mulligan more aggressively.

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    The crazy nastyass honey badger

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    Re: PVD: How to Convince Your Opponent to Hand You the Game

    Mindgames: Piloting Elves!, cast Natural Order (when holding all Craterhoofs in hand) and wait for your opponent to concede. I know I've pulled it off.

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    Re: PVD: How to Convince Your Opponent to Hand You the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Mindgames: Piloting Elves!, cast Natural Order (when holding all Craterhoofs in hand) and wait for your opponent to concede. I know I've pulled it off.
    After seeing a friend post on Facebook that he somehow played ANT without a copy of Tendrils (or something to that effect), I make people play it out. Show me the lethal and attack; I won't bother blocking. ;)

    Here's a follow-up from PVD on analyzing bluffs your opponent may be making:

    http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...ainst-a-bluff/

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    Re: PVD: How to Convince Your Opponent to Hand You the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by jrsthethird View Post
    After seeing a friend post on Facebook that he somehow played ANT without a copy of Tendrils (or something to that effect), I make people play it out. Show me the lethal and attack; I won't bother blocking. ;)
    There's classic stories of old Dragonstorm decks that were very consistant because they didn't actually run enough dragons for a combo win. Just lots of concessions.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

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    Re: PVD: How to Convince Your Opponent to Hand You the Game

    Quote Originally Posted by jrsthethird View Post
    After seeing a friend post on Facebook that he somehow played ANT without a copy of Tendrils (or something to that effect), I make people play it out. Show me the lethal and attack; I won't bother blocking. ;)
    Same here . Always let your opponent play it out. You paid to be there, so you might as well see the entire show.

  15. #15

    Re: PVD: How to Convince Your Opponent to Hand You the Game

    How much time do you safe anyway? He has to tutor 1 card wow...
    “Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

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