Yes, because it can be found with Kruphix's Insight, and Commune With the Gods using less cards slots, and fueling absurd Replenishes
Commune with the Gods: is this actually better than something like Vessel of Nascency? Of course Vessel is a 3 mana investment, but I guess you mostly play Commune turn 2 only if you didn't have a sprawl turn 1 - otherwise there are actual 3 drops to cast normally.
In some fringe situations Commune may be better (digs 1 deeper for 1 cheaper) but Vessel being an Enchantment seems really nice with Replenish, Opalescence and Enchantress's Presence so the synergy seems worth the extra mana? Also it can get land like Serra's Sanctum which may be relevant.
Thanks for the input, haven't read everything in the thread yet so I'll look up those earlier references to the card
Another idea I had been toying with: 2 Lotus Petals? increases turn 2 3-drop, or turn 1 sylvan library/sphere of resistance etc
Although I will concede I did not test Vessel of Nascency heavily I don't think it's a strong fit for the deck. for a few reasons.
- When I tested the card it competed with the Sterling Grove slot, and Sterling was clearly better. When compared to Commune with the Gods the 1 card difference is significant. When you start with you opening 7 there are 53 cards in the deck. Looking at 4 vs. 5 is a difference of 2.5% of the deck. That is significant, and the varince only gets larger the more cards you draw.
- Similarly the 4 vs 5 on filling the yard you get 2.5% more in the yard with grows with each dig spell. True you will Replenish back Vessel, but it's not anything you want on the board most of the time. i.e. the 1/1 body, or the dig ability, you could / should have won the game by that time (thus the power of Sterling in this deck)
- The card was terrible vs Chalice of the Void. There is no reason to tilt this deck to getting hosed by Chalice for 1 more than it does with the 8 growth spells. Especially because of the information above vs. the rate difference of 2 and 3 mana.
...that was just my brief findings though. Test it, and let us know what you find.
Haven't gotten around to testing it myself yet, I'm now mostly testing the Petal idea first and also a black splash.
Just played 2 leagues (10 rounds) with the GW version, and ended 2-3 twice. Lost 2x to RUG delver due to Mongoose and True-Name Nemesis having shroud. Such cards/matchups, as well as Elves/DnT maybe (revoker etc) makes me miss my Doomwake Giants/Engineered Plagues.
Lost to Storm 2x as well, altho partially 1 game due to a misplay - killed 1 too many goblins with Wave, leaving me with 0 counters after randomly topdecking an Opalescence. Could have machine gunned his PIF-2nd round of Goblins the turn after.
Still, apart from those 2 matchups I did well. Just random that 40% of my meta was either RUG or Storm.
I just finished a round with the black splash (3-2) but despite the black cards I lost twice from Death and Taxes due to Rishadan Port keeping me off mana.
I have now completed 25 rounds so time for some early data
13-12 in matches = 52% matchwin
31-31 in games = 50% gamewin
matchups I faced more than once:
Storm 3-3 = 50% matchwin *could have been 4-2 if I hadnt messed up
Miracles 3-1 = 75% matchwin
RUG Delver 0-3 = 0% matchwin *could have been 1-2 if I hadn't messed up
Eldrazi 3-0 = 100% matchwin
Aggro Loam 2-0 = 100% matchwin
Death n Taxes 0-2 = 0% matchwin
so definitely some skewed matchups in either direction it's definitely better against Storm post-SB (although I also cheesed 2 gamewins due to the 1-off maindeck Leyline, that was random/lucky...), and vs Eldrazi if you can get the combo online before they got All is Dust.
RUG Delver and DnT feel worse than with other versions of Enchantress though. And if they play True-Name you have basically no outs except trying to race them - but that'll be hard because RUG will get you down to 5 life before you can stabilise.
Made my first 5-0 with the deck, very excited for it to get published!! Although my previous 4 lists never got published so I don't get my hopes up too high either...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91b7...ature=youtu.be
(I'm afk 2x during the league so if you watch, make sure to skip ahead 5-10 minutes during those breaks)
Congrats! Deck looks fun to play. Gotta scrounge up for some serra's sanctums.
Mind posting your list?
-rob
From the video:
1 Bayou
5 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Savannah
4 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Lotus Petal
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Commune with the Gods
1 Fertile Ground
4 Sylvan Library
2 Oblivion Ring
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Kruphix's Insight
2 Cast Out
2 Replenish
4 Opalescence
4 Parallax Wave
1 Starfield of Nyx
1 Doomwake Giant
SB
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Engineered Plague
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Seeds of Innocence
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Sphere of Resistance
Edit
First time watching the deck in action.
Sylvan Library is a powerful card! It was interesting to see how good Library is as a core part of a deck's engine x4 and how Enchantress' Presence often seems underwhelming by comparison.
Also fun to see Cast Out beatdowns in the match vs Lands
I always felt like you wanted some way to mitigate the drawback of having multiple Sylvans. Abundance was suggested earlier in the thread, which seems at first like a kind of win-more silly suggestion but it is a ridiculous combo with Sylvan Library. Another benefit of Abundance is that it turns off Leovold by replacing all of the draws (a la Words of Wind) which seems relevant.
I don't know that Doomwake is needed when your combo kills all creatures anyway but it performed okay in that Delver game.
I wasn't impressed by Lotus Petal but you probably have more experience than me to decide whether that's a worthwhile card or not.
I think Sterling Grove is also worth playing because there were a couple of instances where shroud would have been good, and even searching for the Opal/Wave combo seems strong because it looks like that KOs a lot of different decks. Maybe this isn't quite true though because it seems shroud is needed the most when you are doing the combo and then you have to get rid of the Shroud so that Parallax Wave can target itself.
I think I might just cut Starfield for Ground Seal. It's randomly good against too many things and it also gives you the option to draw your whole deck if you combo off, and is nicer on the mana curve for helping out the Serra's Sanctum.
Maybe Courser of Kruphix could be okay somewhere? Good with stacking your top card with Sylvan Library, gain more life to draw more with Sylvan Library, more value with Replenish etc etc? Obviously the core of the deck seems to work well and you want to keep dodging removal so maybe it's not worth changing too much.
Last edited by kombatkiwi; 12-03-2017 at 12:05 PM.
Abundance: not sure if another cmc 4 card isnt making it too clunky though.
Doomwake: I added it after suffering a bunch of losses vs Truename and DnT - at least we now have 1 maindeck out to TNN and Revoker+mom. Gives some extra reach vs elves too.
It also randomly killed a SnT player yesterday in a paper event (5-2 for 9th place on breakers ) after having my Opalescence countered
Lotus Petal: I have been on 1 Chrome Mox instead of the Petal too after that 5-0. Had another 5-0 with the Mox on saturday night so if i'm lucky it gets published today.
I was mainly annoyed that playinng turn 1 Library off Petal meant you couldnt curve into 3-4 mana spells turn 2-3, so Chrome Mox has been better as ramp spell nr 10.
Starfield has been awesome as Opalescence 5 and Replenish 2.5, so I wouldnt cut that. I do consider Ground Seal in the SB tho because some people love bringing in Surgicals.
So I had another 5-0 with a changed list and 5-2ed a paper event with the same list, I'll post that when I get home - too much to type out on my phone.
Edit: E's Presence has been the most underwhelming card indeed. It's still been good in matchups like Miracles, but I sided out anywhere between 2-4 in a bunch of matchups yesterday: Infect, Eldrazi, probably SnT a few as well, basically any deck where you don't want to spend your turn 2 setting up a card that will maybe draw a card the turn after - in faster matchups you'd rather either drop a hateful card t2 or Kruphix into dig as deep as possible for a hateful card t3.
My second (unpublished) 5-0 list was:
4 Sylvan Library
1 Plains
5 Forest
1 Starfield of Nyx
4 Kruphix's Insight
2 Savannah
1 Doomwake Giant
4 Windswept Heath
1 Karakas
4 Utopia Sprawl
1 Fertile Ground
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Parallax Wave
4 Serra's Sanctum
2 Replenish
4 Opalescence
4 Wild Growth
1 Bayou
2 Cast Out
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Chrome Mox
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Oblivion Ring
SB:
1 Engineered Plague
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Seeds of Innocence
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Sphere of Resistance
1 Rest in Peace
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Sterling Grove
2 Leyline of Sanctity
Then the paper event where I finished 5-2 I had switched 1 maindeck leyline the board for the Sterling Grove as online meta is like 15% Storm whereas my paper meta is mostly fair.
Overall this list felt better than the previous one with Petal - I was still thinkin about Toxic Deluge in the board tho? Deals both with Elves and DnT both of which are annoying matchups - Elves by killing you too quickly before setting up P-Wave, and DnT due to a Mom-protected Revoker etc.
Wow that sounds awesome!! Didn't think of that yet.
Tbh I was vaguely aware of the cards, but due to the nonbo with Argothian Enchantress I had never considered them for traditional enchantress and kinda forgotten about them for this deck.
Due to the higher amount of T1 green sources Honey would be better I guess, but the price tag means I'll stick to Porphyry for now
http://www.gatheringmagic.com/carlos...t-enchantment/
Some more attention for the deck.
My bad. I assumed the decklist in the opening post was the most up-to-date one; I have now made myself read some more of the thread I see you also cut back to 3 Presence (and 2 Replenish) in later lists, that's also the decision I was closing in on.
Cutting the Fertile Ground is something I also often do post-board, but I have to admit it has been nice in the Blood Moon Stompy matchups - often managed to win due to being able to play all my spells through a chalice on 1 stopping Sprawl, and Moon stopping everything else (esp. due to my black splash with only 1 basic plains - I guess in the 2 colour build it's less necessary)
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