[SCD] Spell Queller and its rulings

[thedogue]

Okay so this card was spoiled yesterday:



Gotta say it has a lot of potential (I'm looking at the Modern perspective of course).

Looks like it can fun with:
Stonecloaker
Restoration Angel
Flickerwisp
Eldrazi Displacer

I was play testing this card with the above effects in a U/W taxes shell (it did okay -- not as good as Abzan taxes)

BUT, the following question came up:

- If I have a card "exiled" by the Queller and the card is something that cannot be played on my turn (creatures, sorceries, etc.) - if on my turn (assuming the turn after Queller did its thing) I cast a Restoration Angel and target my Queller with the flicker effect, since it flicks away - the player then can "cast" the card from exile. They don't get it back in hand or anywhere else - it just seems like they can cast that exiled card as long as my Queller is off the battlefield...

A quick aside:
My presumption is that (if there was no Angel in question), the way the wording works is if my opponent gets rid of my Queller, they have until "forever" to "cast" the card I exiled with it. I assume they have to cast the card under regular casting conditions. So, if they bolt Queller on my turn and I have a Goyf exiled with it, the opponent can't do anything during my turn, but when it is their turn again they can cast the Goyf for free. Correct?

...With that assumption in mind, If I flick my Queller on my turn with the Goyf under it, since the Queller comes back into play right away - even if it isn't targeting a spell, would the Goyf become exiled forever? Does it stay in exile and it's now still castable next turn for my opponent b/c the copy of the Queller that exiled it ... isn't the same copy? Or is it?

[Phoenix Ignition]

The second triggered ability lets the player cast the card when Spell Queller leaves, which they are allowed to do only upon resolution of that ability, regardless of the type of card Spell Queller exiled. Therefore, if you Spell Queller a Goyf and then on your next turn you blink SQ, they have the option of casting Goyf on your turn, when the leaves the battlefield trigger is resolving. They are not allowed to cast it at any other time (on their next turn, for example).

[H]

PI is correct about the timing. Once the "leaves" trigger resolves, the exiled spell must be cast then and can only be cast then, no timing restrictions.

However, in the case of Restoration Angel, you are missing a key interaction of the triggers to understand what would happen after the blink effect resolves. It would go like this.

1.) Spell Queller in play, exiling let's just say Goyf. Restoration Angel is cast and resolves, trigger targets Queller and resolves.
2.) Queller is exiled and comes back into play. Now the key part is that no triggers were added to the stack until now. In other words, once the Resto's trigger finishes resolving, there are two triggers that need to go on the stack, both the enter and leave the battlefield triggers. This is because while an ability (or spell) is resolving, nothing can be added to the stack, it all comes after.
3.) You control both triggers, so you can choose how to add them to the stack. The way in which you would probably want to do it is to added the enter trigger first and the leaves second, so that leaves resolves, they cast the spell and then you exile it. Unfortunately that doesn't work, because in order to add the enters trigger it already needs a legal target, which the still exiled spell is not (because it is still exiled. So unless some other spell is on the stack when you do this, the enter trigger is just wasted and can't be added to the stack.

In other words, long story short, blinking Queller with a Resto is not really a great idea.

(Typed on my phone, forgive any glaring spelling errors.)

[thedogue]

PI is correct about the timing. Once the "leaves" trigger resolves, the exiled spell must be cast then and can only be cast then, no timing restrictions.

However, in the case of Restoration Angel, you are missing a key interaction of the triggers to understand what would happen after the blink effect resolves. It would go like this.

1.) Spell Queller in play, exiling let's just say Goyf. Restoration Angel is cast and resolves, trigger targets Queller and resolves.
2.) Queller is exiled and comes back into play. Now the key part is that no triggers were added to the stack until now. In other words, once the Resto's trigger finishes resolving, there are two triggers that need to go on the stack, both the enter and leave the battlefield triggers. This is because while an ability (or spell) is resolving, nothing can be added to the stack, it all comes after.
3.) You control both triggers, so you can choose how to add them to the stack. The way in which you would probably want to do it is to added the enter trigger first and the leaves second, so that leaves resolves, they cast the spell and then you exile it. Unfortunately that doesn't work, because in order to add the enters trigger it already needs a legal target, which the still exiled spell is not (because it is still exiled. So unless some other spell is on the stack when you do this, the enter trigger is just wasted and can't be added to the stack.

In other words, long story short, blinking Queller with a Resto is not really a great idea.

(Typed on my phone, forgive any glaring spelling errors.)

Thank you both for the clarification -

In regards to the following:

3.) You control both triggers, so you can choose how to add them to the stack. The way in which you would probably want to do it is to added the enter trigger first and the leaves second, so that leaves resolves, they cast the spell and then you exile it. Unfortunately that doesn't work, because in order to add the enters trigger it already needs a legal target, which the still exiled spell is not (because it is still exiled. So unless some other spell is on the stack when you do this, the enter trigger is just wasted and can't be added to the stack.

Okay - so basically it's a circlejerk unless I'm protecting Queller with Resto. No tricks to remove the card perma (without playing inbetween my Queller triggers). Got it.

[MaximumC]

Thank you both for the clarification -

In regards to the following:


Okay - so basically it's a circlejerk unless I'm protecting Queller with Resto. No tricks to remove the card perma (without playing inbetween my Queller triggers). Got it.

Well, hang on. The ol' Oblivion Ring trick should still work.

With Tarmagoyf on the stack, cast Spell Queller.
Spell Queller resolves and enters the battlefield.
Put Spell Queller's ETB trigger on the stack targeting Goyf.
Cast Unsummon targeting Spell Queller.
Unsummon resolves, putting Queller in your hand.
Queller's LTB trigger goes on the stack.
Queller's LTB trigger resolves and does nothing.
Queller's ETB trigger resolves, exiling Goyf forever.

I believe this still works just fine. The trick is that you must remove Queller from play while it's original ETB is still on the stack.

[iatee]

Yep, Queller's template is Fiend Hunter's. The same tricks work.

[H]

Yeah, I believe that is what thedogue meant by "(without playing inbetween my Queller triggers)" in the previous post.

In other words, no, you can't really keep the same spell exiled (once one is already exiled by Qeuller's ability) unless the first trigger is still on the stack. This means there isn't "additional value" to saving Queller with a Restoration Angel, unless there happens to be another spell on the stack, or you are playing the Angel while the enter trigger is on the stack.

So, in summary to what thedogue was asking, playing a Restoration Angel to save a Queller which already had all of it's triggers resolve basically only nets you a 2/3 flying body, not the same spell exiled again.

[Sidneyious]

So sort of the same idea want to make sure I'm right.

Back in somisd t2 I played a janky uw control deck that finished with venser blinking a leonin relic-warder targeting a percy.

The effect is percy is protected letting me make an army of tokens.

With how this goes does that mean the percy was exiled and I played it wrong?

[Finn]

Fellows, there is a big hitch in your plan with this trick. You will probably never once get it to work even if you play the deck 100 times. In addition to the usual setup, the opponent has to have a spell on the stack for each time Spellqueller enters the battlefield. So, for example, if you are using Flickerwisp off an Aether Vial to flicker it out. The Queller will indeed exile a spell when it first enters the battelfield. Flickerwisp timing can make that a permanent exile. But then at the end of the turn, it will return to the battlefield again (thanks to Flickerwisp) and it will exile another spell. What spell? Your opponent would have to respond the the eot delayed Flickerwisp trigger to even get a legal target for the returning Spell Queller.

[MaximumC]

Fellows, there is a big hitch in your plan with this trick. You will probably never once get it to work even if you play the deck 100 times. In addition to the usual setup, the opponent has to have a spell on the stack for each time Spellqueller enters the battlefield. So, for example, if you are using Flickerwisp off an Aether Vial to flicker it out. The Queller will indeed exile a spell when it first enters the battelfield. Flickerwisp timing can make that a permanent exile. But then at the end of the turn, it will return to the battlefield again (thanks to Flickerwisp) and it will exile another spell. What spell? Your opponent would have to respond the the eot delayed Flickerwisp trigger to even get a legal target for the returning Spell Queller.

No, .but Crystal Shard or Erratic Portal accomplishes the desired goal.

[Finn]

No, .but Crystal Shard or Erratic Portal accomplishes the desired goal.

I had not asked a question, actually.

[Sidneyious]

So sort of the same idea want to make sure I'm right.

Back in somisd t2 I played a janky uw control deck that finished with venser blinking a leonin relic-warder targeting a percy.

The effect is percy is protected letting me make an army of tokens.

With how this goes does that mean the percy was exiled and I played it wrong?

I'm sure many have me blocked but will my idea still work?

Was I in the right ?