[Primer] BRx Griselbrand Reanimator

[splorf]

I could see a Burning Wish sideboard being good again.

Sideboard:

4 Burning Wish
1 Wretched Banquet / Chainer's Edict
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Pyroclasm
1 Massacre
1 Tendrils of Agony?
1 Buried Alive
1 Shattering Spree / Meltdown
1 Reverent Silence (green splash) or Revoke Existence (white splash) or Void Snare (blue splash)
1 Show and Tell (if willing to run a blue dual) or Stronghold Gambit
1 Cabal Therapy
1 blue land (if going to sideboard Show and Tell?)

I'd choose Fragmentize over Revoke Existence, if splashing white. Exile is nice, but is it worth one more mana?
Tendrils would be sweet, but I assume it's too hard to get it online postboard, since we somehow rely on Griseldaddy to go off with it anyway? I mean, if we manage to get him onto the board, the problem is already solved, isn't it? :)
Another card I'm thinking of is Gamble as a singleton. Probably too cute, but maybe It's good in some fringe situations in grindier postboard match ups.

Since I'm splashing white starting point could be sth. like this:

4 Burning Wish
3 Stronghold Gambit (Two for MB, one to fetch with Wish)
2 Fragmentize (One for MB, one to fetch)
1 Unmask / Despise / Harsh Scrutiny / Cabal Therapy
1 Vindicate
1 Pyroclasm / another sweeper
2 Fatty flex spots
1 Plateau

[lavafrogg]

I'd choose Fragmentize over Revoke Existence, if splashing white. Exile is nice, but is it worth one more mana?
Tendrils would be sweet, but I assume it's too hard to get it online postboard, since we somehow rely on Griseldaddy to go off with it anyway? I mean, if we manage to get him onto the board, the problem is already solved, isn't it? :)
Another card I'm thinking of is Gamble as a singleton. Probably too cute, but maybe It's good in some fringe situations in grindier postboard match ups.

Since I'm splashing white starting point could be sth. like this:

4 Burning Wish
3 Stronghold Gambit (Two for MB, one to fetch with Wish)
2 Fragmentize (One for MB, one to fetch)
1 Unmask / Despise / Harsh Scrutiny / Cabal Therapy
1 Vindicate
1 Pyroclasm / another sweeper
2 Fatty flex spots
1 Plateau

Why would you sideboard in burning wishes? Don't you play wishes main board and have access to your toolbox in all 3 games?

[DXpt]

Because the deck is still very good in first game as it is. The problem comes with games 2 and 3 where it is just very hard to win through all the hate right now.

[Rocco111]

What do you think about this list I'm playing nowadays?:

4 lotus petal
4 chancellor
4 grisel
4 simian spirit guide
2 sire of insanity
1 tidespout tyrant

3 animate dead

4 dark ritual
4 entomb

13 lands

2 collective brutality
4 exhume
4 faithless looting
4 reanimate
3 unmask

Side:
1 blazing archon
2 blood moon
1 elesh norn
2 faerie macabre
1 inkwell leviathan
1 Iona
1 pithing needle
2 sneak attack
4 thoughtseize


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I like your list. I would eventually cut down the number of Thoughtseize and raise the number of Sneak Attacks (maybe 3/3 or 2/4).

[Hopo]

I like your list. I would eventually cut down the number of Thoughtseize and raise the number of Sneak Attacks (maybe 3/3 or 2/4).

That said, what do you actually want to Sneak in? You have pretty much only Griselbrand that gives you anything except some damage out of showing up for a turn. Please, enlighten me about this side plan.

[Rocco111]

That said, what do you actually want to Sneak in? You have pretty much only Griselbrand that gives you anything except some damage out of showing up for a turn. Please, enlighten me about this side plan.

Based on his list, his creatures are:
4 chancellor
4 grisel
2 sire of insanity
1 tidespout tyrant
1 blazing archon
1 elesh norn
1 inkwell leviathan
1 Iona

Supposedly, he will probably take out the Sire in G2 because dropping Sire T1 OTD in sometimes (often) too late, depending on the MUs and it generally doesn't work well with S.A.

Sneaking Grisel gives you quite a chance to "draw 7" (or more) you next fatty. Once said next fatty is in hand, depending on your R mana available, you can either sneak it as well the same turn for an Alpha-strike or you keep it for the next turn. But this much is fairly clear for about everyone, I believe.

Now, playing with S.Attack also means you can Sneak fatties during the opponent's EOT, so they are here during your entire next turn. This is quite useful if you have only 1 R mana available and could not Sneak several fatties as one. Which incidentally works well with Grisel as well. This line of play is particularly interesting with both Chancellors and Elesh.

Sneaking Chancellor is far from being ridiculous > 5/6 flying is nothing to sneeze at.

Finally, you can chain-sneak fatties provided that one of them is Tidespout and you keep a spell to play per turn. Sneak Fatty > Attack > Play spell > Bounce back Fatty to your hand. Repeat.

[Hopo]

Based on his list, his creatures are:


Supposedly, he will probably take out the Sire in G2 because dropping Sire T1 OTD in sometimes (often) too late, depending on the MUs and it generally doesn't work well with S.A.

Sneaking Grisel gives you quite a chance to "draw 7" (or more) you next fatty. Once said next fatty is in hand, depending on your R mana available, you can either sneak it as well the same turn for an Alpha-strike or you keep it for the next turn. But this much is fairly clear for about everyone, I believe.

Now, playing with S.Attack also means you can Sneak fatties during the opponent's EOT, so they are here during your entire next turn. This is quite useful if you have only 1 R mana available and could not Sneak several fatties as one. Which incidentally works well with Grisel as well. This line of play is particularly interesting with both Chancellors and Elesh.

Sneaking Chancellor is far from being ridiculous > 5/6 flying is nothing to sneeze at.

Finally, you can chain-sneak fatties provided that one of them is Tidespout and you keep a spell to play per turn. Sneak Fatty > Attack > Play spell > Bounce back Fatty to your hand. Repeat.

I get that Griselbrand is awesome, that was the whole point of my post. The other creatures might as well be vanilla, regardless of when you sneak them in. No matter what you do, you only get one attack per creature per activation and if none of them is Griselbrand, you need to find at least 4 creatures and dodge all blockers and removal to get the kill. Sneak Attack seems to rely on Griselbrand and that seems very inconsistent to me. Elesh Norn can sweep the smaller critters but in the end it's only 4 damage to the dome.

Regarding Tyrant tricks: With this deck any scenario involving you drawing your sb card AND your 1-of is marginal at best.

What IS good is Sneak Attack combined with reanimation, but in case you side in Sneak Attack, you are likely facing Leyline/Rip so there's that.

[Rocco111]

I get that Griselbrand is awesome, that was the whole point of my post. The other creatures might as well be vanilla, regardless of when you sneak them in. No matter what you do, you only get one attack per creature per activation and if none of them is Griselbrand, you need to find at least 4 creatures and dodge all blockers and removal to get the kill. Sneak Attack seems to rely on Griselbrand and that seems very inconsistent to me. Elesh Norn can sweep the smaller critters but in the end it's only 4 damage to the dome.

Regarding Tyrant tricks: With this deck any scenario involving you drawing your sb card AND your 1-of is marginal at best.

What IS good is Sneak Attack combined with reanimation, but in case you side in Sneak Attack, you are likely facing Leyline/Rip so there's that.

I do get your point.
However from your reply, I get the feeling that you have not tested this option so much OR you have been disappointed by it and would like another opinion on the matter.
What you are point though (the interaction between S.A. and Reanimate) is absolutely true AND a valid choice, strategically speaking. But in the SB configuration we were talking about, is indeed not really relevant. Why?
Because to get this interaction on line, packing cards like Angel of Despair/Ashen Rider would be needed in the SB as well (Sneaked in, break the Leyline/RiP, now grave is available). To push the upside of playing S.A., having cards like Grave Titan or Inferno Titan are also options you can look into (deal 6 damages OR leaving behind a family of 4 Zombies just by landing and being declare as attacker is quite neat). These are options to seriously consider when choosing to play S.A. over, say, Stronghold Gambit for instance.
But in any case, if you are playing the deck, you play 4 Grisels (3 in the worst case scenario) and you should statistically get one "at some point" which would then enable you to have access to your "draw 7".

Statistically, you can also spend the whole day not having a single creature to sneak post-side. That also happens. But it is something that would also happen with any cards from your sideboard, especially if you run 2 copies instead of 3 or 4.

What is your sideboard plan? To compare with. Or simply to also hear your thoughts on alternative strategies. :)

[Jeff]

I tested and hated the Sneak Attack plan for exactly the reasons Hopo mentioned. Sneak + Griselbrand was great, but Sneak plus my other creatures sucked, and with only 4 Lootings to dig through the deck, there's no way to ensure you're going to find a Griselbrand. Especially considering that the card disadvantage from looting makes it that much harder to get to the 4 mana for Sneak Attack in the first place.

I ended up on the Show and Tell plan (my specific sideboard plan is a few pages back), and I like it a *lot* more than Sneak Attack or Stronghold Gambit.

[DNSolver]

Burning Wish sideboard: you don't want Burning Wish in G1 because you want to be consistent at beating the format in G1 like we already are.

G2 Fragmentize is a good choice over Revoke Existence, but then I would be sure to run Meltdown / Shattering Spree to deal with Chalice.

I can see cutting Tendrils. Replace with Collective Brutality.

Full Burning Wish list:

4 Griselbrand
4 Chancellor of the Annex (alt. 1 Archetype of Endurance, 1 Children of Korlis
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Animate Dead
4 Entomb
4 Faithless Looting
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 Thoughtseize
4 Unmask
2 Badlands
2 Swamp
8 black fetches
1 splash land
1 Chrome Mox

SB:
4 Burning Wish
1 Show and Tell
1 Stronghold Gambit
1 Buried Alive
1 Pyroclasm
1 Massacre
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Reverent Silence / Fragmentize
1 Meltdown / Shattering Spree
1 Buried Alive
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Collective Brutality

SB plan:
-1 Chrome Mox
-1 Reanimate (to fetch with Wish if necessary)
-1 Exhume (to fetch with Wish if necessary)
-1 Unmask
+4 Burning Wish

[splorf]

SB:
4 Burning Wish
1 Show and Tell
1 Stronghold Gambit
1 Buried Alive
1 Pyroclasm
1 Massacre
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Reverent Silence / Fragmentize
1 Meltdown / Shattering Spree
1 Buried Alive
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Collective Brutality

SB plan:
-1 Chrome Mox
-1 Reanimate (to fetch with Wish if necessary)
-1 Exhume (to fetch with Wish if necessary)
-1 Unmask
+4 Burning Wish

You've got two Buried Alive in your SB. What's the reason to play it anyway? You need to deal with Leyline / GY hate G2 and G3 first. Valid point regarding Meltdown etc. to deal with Chalice.

I'd put an Ashen Rider somewhere into the list, if you want to splash blue for SnT.

[DNSolver]

I prefer Tidespout Tyrant to Ashen Rider.

Fixed list:

4 Griselbrand
4 Chancellor of the Annex (alt. 1 Archetype of Endurance, 1 Children of Korlis
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Animate Dead
4 Entomb
4 Faithless Looting
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 Thoughtseize
4 Unmask
2 Badlands
2 Swamp
8 black fetches
1 splash land
1 Chrome Mox

SB:
4 Burning Wish
1 Show and Tell
1 Stronghold Gambit
1 Buried Alive
1 Pyroclasm
1 Massacre
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Reverent Silence / Fragmentize
1 Meltdown / Shattering Spree
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Collective Brutality
1 Underground Sea / Volcanic Island (for Show and Tell)

SB plan:
-1 Chrome Mox
-1 Reanimate (to fetch with Wish if necessary)
-1 Exhume (to fetch with Wish if necessary)
-1 Unmask
+4 Burning Wish

[xix]

I'd choose Fragmentize over Revoke Existence, if splashing white. Exile is nice, but is it worth one more mana?
Tendrils would be sweet, but I assume it's too hard to get it online postboard, since we somehow rely on Griseldaddy to go off with it anyway? I mean, if we manage to get him onto the board, the problem is already solved, isn't it? :)
Another card I'm thinking of is Gamble as a singleton. Probably too cute, but maybe It's good in some fringe situations in grindier postboard match ups.

Since I'm splashing white starting point could be sth. like this:

4 Burning Wish
3 Stronghold Gambit (Two for MB, one to fetch with Wish)
2 Fragmentize (One for MB, one to fetch)
1 Unmask / Despise / Harsh Scrutiny / Cabal Therapy
1 Vindicate
1 Pyroclasm / another sweeper
2 Fatty flex spots
1 Plateau

Why run fragmentize at all, just run wear // tear, if they chalice its on 1, wear//tear hits everything we want.

[Hopo]

Why run fragmentize at all, just run wear // tear, if they chalice its on 1, wear//tear hits everything we want.

It quite clearly says in the post that it's a Burning Wish target.

[Kobra_D]

Why would you sideboard in burning wishes? Don't you play wishes main board and have access to your toolbox in all 3 games?

If someone really wants speed you can save the toolbox for the sb games. This deck isn't about incremental value it's about winning quickly. That being said, I wouldn't always keep all burning wishes in all 3 games.

Especially in the miracles match up I definitely cut wishes so that they aren't easily countered and my sb card is left un-accessible.

[DNSolver]

Not surprised to see this thread bumped back down to the Established category. We've convinced the entire format that Rest in Peace is too slow and warped the metagame dramatically, while tripling our money on Surgical Extractions (if anyone did this, congrats :D ). Animate Dead bug on MTGO probably not helping our cause :(

Keep spreading the gospel of Griselbrand.

[l33twash0r]

Well still missing few pieces so maybe I just hope people forget this deck is a thing soon enough

[TokenMaster]

Has anyone on the white splash tried Monastery Mentor post-board? It seems to answer a lot of our problems game 2, especially in situations where opponents mulligan aggressively for a turn 1 answer and usually don't end up with a strong enough start to out Mentor on time. It also punishes players for using Surgical Extraction instead of Leyline and RiP(especially if they're paying 2 life to cast it) because even if they out Mentor, it gives our reanimation spells an extra target, often with the ability to trigger prowess once or twice immediately.

[Kobra_D]

Has anyone on the white splash tried Monastery Mentor post-board? It seems to answer a lot of our problems game 2, especially in situations where opponents mulligan aggressively for a turn 1 answer and usually don't end up with a strong enough start to out Mentor on time. It also punishes players for using Surgical Extraction instead of Leyline and RiP(especially if they're paying 2 life to cast it) because even if they out Mentor, it gives our reanimation spells an extra target, often with the ability to trigger prowess once or twice immediately.

Personally, I love the sneak attack alternative. It keeps the deck to 2 colors, dodges all hate except for containment priest, but with all the hate I have for DnT, I'm not that worried post board (massacre, pyroclasm, dread of night, fast Elesh Norn, and now fatal push).

It let's me keep all my fatties in and board in more you have them in the SB. We're still dead to spot removal, but that was always the case and I accept this about myself.

That being said, when going for a splash I do like the white splash over the green one. Abrupt decay is awesome, sure, but white allows for mentor, StP, PtE, wear//tear, serenity (although not a favorite of mine). We lose decay, but if we are really going down on reanimation then it doesn't matter so much, decay only hits the creatures they have and push does that. StP, and PtE helps put you in a comfortable place with Eldrazi, plus we still have some access to our fatties. Boarding out some reanimation still means that we can cheat Elesh into play which is awesome with mentor. It does open ourselves up more to terminus, but miracles is hard, no matter what we do.

Some people like Stoneforge packages on white, but I think mentor and some white utility is all that is needed, stoneforges always clog up my hands I find.

Another thing that the white splash helps with is if you run a chrome mox list. As mox/chancellor no longer produces colorless.

So, while it may depend on your preference, and meta, I think mentor as a post board option is great. It changes the dynamics significantly and still closes out quickly. I've tried boarding in top with mentor as well but have yet to have a game where I liked it (*Kanye Shrug*).

TL;DR
I like Sneak Attack but mentor is great. Elesh Norn+Mentor is silly.

[splorf]

I don't see any reason to play Swords to Plowshares or Path to Exile in this deck. Not to mention Stoneforge Mystic. Never saw a list playing it. The reason why I prefer the white splash over green is because of the slimmer sideboard package, but it's somewhat weaker against Miracles. If my local meta would be heavy Miracles, I'd splash G.

Concerning Mentor: In theory it could be good to leech some value out of your dead cards until you are able to deal with the hate. Some data here would be cool.