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Thread: [Primer] BRx Griselbrand Reanimator

  1. #661
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    Re: [Primer] BRx Griselbrand Reanimator

    Quote Originally Posted by sco0ter View Post
    Yes, actually this was the question...

    Is it the life loss which hurts too much (when Reanimate and Thoughtseize do their rest)?
    Is it just considered a bad card in this deck (why?)?
    Is it because it's blue and doesn't feel right in a BR deck?
    Does Unmask/Thoughtseize already provide enough information / protection?

    Guess I will just give it a try to find out.
    I think the life for Probe is a real concern with Reanimate, Griselbrands activation and Thoughtseize. Probe isn't as 'free' in this deck as it is in others, it could be the difference between 0 and 7 cards, or being able to cast Renimate.

    Due to the nature of the deck, the information isn't very important. You're already TSing and Unmasking like you say, so it's quite likely you'll see their hand most games. The disruption is proactive too, so it's not like the information can make much of a difference. You can either discard their disruption or you can't. Obviously some situations are a bit more nuanced than that, but the idea is there.

    Probe also creates even more variance when mulling, the deck has enough of that as is.
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  2. #662

    Re: [Primer] BRx Griselbrand Reanimator

    Quote Originally Posted by Karhumies View Post
    Sounds like your manabase might appreciate you dropping red & switching your F.Lootings into C.Studies to have more reliable mana sources vs Wasteland decks. Unless you really love running other red cards, e.g. Blood Moon.
    When I find a better way to beat Grixis Delver than Blood Moon, I'll move off of it, but for now it's working for me. For the most part I don't want blue against the wasteland decks anyway so that isn't an issue. Eldrazi is a little different but I've not found it to be a problem since I usually only need to resolve one Show and Tell.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karhumies View Post
    Also, be careful about the Eldrazi MU. I have recently seen some lists running 2-3x sb Confusion in the Ranks in metagames where they suspect Sneaky Show & OmniTell to appear because they have a lot of flex sb slots to experiment with.
    That matchup sucks no matter what you do. Just have to rely on unmasking them and hoping they only have 1 relevant card.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karhumies View Post
    Against Miracles, the transformational sb into man plan has been good for me. If they sb out at least some of their StoP and Terminus, a resolved Dark Confidant or Mentor goes a long way towards winning the game. However, in my opinion that sb plan is not good enough against the rest of the field in a large tournament. Something to consider for FLGS meta, though.
    If I had the room for it I would definitely try that. Confidant seems greedy with as many big dudes as we play, but then again I won my Tundras playing a deck with 4 Confidant and 3 Tombstalkers . . . . At the moment I think the Blood Moons are important enough for beating Grixis that I don't have room for something like that, but as I continue to test I'll keep it in mind.

  3. #663

    Re: [Primer] BRx Griselbrand Reanimator

    Quote Originally Posted by sco0ter View Post
    Yes, actually this was the question...

    Is it the life loss which hurts too much (when Reanimate and Thoughtseize do their rest)?
    Is it just considered a bad card in this deck (why?)?
    Is it because it's blue and doesn't feel right in a BR deck?
    Does Unmask/Thoughtseize already provide enough information / protection?

    Guess I will just give it a try to find out.
    Running G.Probe over T.Seize seems counterproductive. For the same amount of life loss, we only see the opponent's hand instead of taking out a problem card. We draw into a random card without filtering which makes it more difficult to evaluate mulligans in hands with Probe without stuff to exploit the knowledge. We also have less creature discard outlets.

    Running G.Probe in addition to T.Seize is a lot of cumulative life loss in a pay 7 life to draw 7 cards deck. Especially since our only way to get the U mana is L.Petal, unless we run Brug colors mana base, which seems greedy / awkward.

    We don't run delve cards like Become Immense, cards which get pumped by a sorcery in the gy like Tarmogoyf, or storm cards, and it's difficult for us to benefit from G.Probe + C.Therapy + sacrifice flashback. Lists running Shallow Grave or Goryo's Vengeance can exploit the C.Therapy to get the creature back in the gy with flashback instead of going into exile, but we typically run Animate Dead and Exhume over those cards. Lists making creature tokens could also exploit C.Therapy flashback, but those creatures are probably not strong enough for us to run in the md.

    Post Griselbrand activation, I see us ripping the opponent's hand apart with multiple Unmasks, rather than casting G.Probes for additional draws with our life or using Probe + Therapy combo. Which is part of the reason why I am hesitant to start cutting Unmasks, since it's an excellent T1 combo protection card as well as a great card to snowball our advantage after Griselbrand activation.

    But the most important reason in my opinion is that often, the best play for us is to blindly play into opponent's potential hate cards, hoping that they don't have the hate or hoping that we can draw into second attempt fast enough. The info about opponent's hand is not super valuable to us without the digging and hand sculpting tools of Brainstorm and Ponder to gain the tools to actually do something about the opponent's hand without blind luck of the draw being a factor. For BR, I see the advantage being the speed of the first attempt; for BU the hand sculpting power to make it easier to protect the pieces and more reliably attempt the combo second and third time without luck of the turn draw.

    I see G.Probe getting more play in blue lists, where the deck can also cast it for mana instead of life, or pitch it to FoW. Even then, it might be more often 2of than 4of since Griselbrand wants our life.

    EDIT: Here's a cool Bur deck list running both F.Looting and G.Probe: http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=14378&d=285953&f=LE

  4. #664
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    Re: [Primer] BRx Griselbrand Reanimator

    GP Louisville: BRw Reanimator (10-5)

    Mainboard:
    2 Sire of Insanity
    4 Chancellor of the Annex
    4 Griselbrand
    1 Tidespout Tyrant

    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Entomb
    4 Faithless Looting
    4 Reanimate
    4 Thoughtseize
    3 Animate Dead
    4 Exhume
    4 Unmask

    3 Badlands
    2 Scrubland
    2 Swamp
    7 Black Fetches

    Sideboard:
    3 Wear/Tear
    3 Faerie Macabre
    3 Collective Brutality
    1 Grave Titan
    1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
    1 Ashen Rider
    1 Blazing Archon
    1 Inkwell Leviathan
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

    Day 1
    R1: Bye (1-0)
    R2: Bye (2-0)
    R3: 2-1 Sneak & Show (3-0)
    R4: 2-0 Eldrazi (4-0)
    R5: 0-2 feature match against Miracles piloted by Alexander Hayne (4-1)
    R6: 2-0 Sneak & Show (5-1)
    R7: 1-2 Lands (5-2)
    R8: 1-2 Grixis Delver (5-3)
    R9: 2-0 Dredge (6-3)

    Day 2
    R10: 2-0 Elves (7-3)
    R11: 2-1 Dragon Stompy (8-3)
    R12: 2-1 Death & Taxes piloted by Christoffer Andersen (9-3)
    R13: 1-2 Mono-Red Sneak Attack (9-4)
    R14: 2-0 ANT (10-4)
    R15: 0-2 Miracles (10-5)

    Some comments:
    - R4 against Eldrazi game 2 he had Leyline and I turn 1 thoughtseized his reality smasher, reanimated turn 2 and rode that to victory (feelsgoodman.jpg)
    - R5 & R15 against Miracles were super disappointing because I lost g1 in both matches, which is typically heavily in our favor. Winning both post-board games against Miracles is incredibly difficult, so I was pretty disheartened to lose game 1 both times.
    - R8 against Lands I won g1, g2 he had t2 Marit Lage, and g3 I just couldn't draw gas through the course of 6-7 turns after he was able to stop my initial combo. Sadface to lose a favored matchup :(
    - R9 against Grixis Delver was intense. Game 3 though he had force and double surgical, which I just couldn't beat.
    - R12 against Death & Taxes I got really lucky in game 3 with a reanimated Chancellor t1 and he never drew Swords.

    All in all I was super happy with the deck. I felt like I played it pretty well and the only things I would change would be to drop a mainboard Sire of Insanity for a mainboard Grave Titan, and drop the Grave Titan and Ashen Rider from the board for 2 Pithing Needles. Also I think I mulliganed some 6-hands that I should have kept. I've found that its best to mulligan 7s aggressively and 6s conservatively.

    Also my foil Unmasks just came in the mail and I can't wait to play them tonight

    edit: Siruskayteam asked for a quick sideboard guide

    Sideboard Guide

    Sideboard:
    3 Wear/Tear
    3 Faerie Macabre
    3 Collective Brutality
    1 Grave Titan
    1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
    1 Ashen Rider
    1 Blazing Archon
    1 Inkwell Leviathan
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

    Wear/Tear: Bring in all 3 of these against Leyline decks. You also need them against chalice/3ball/moon decks as well, though 2 is probably sufficient when on the play. Bring in 2 of these on the draw against miracles; none when on the play. Bring in 2 on the draw vs. Lands to deal with their spheres etc. As you can see, Wear/Tear is better on the draw (discard is preferred when we are on the play) unless we are playing against a Leyline deck.

    Faerie Macabre: only bring these in for the mirror & dredge. they are not worth it against Storm/Lands/etc. where there might be some tempting targets (it's not worth it! it dilutes our deck).

    collective brutality: bring these in against deathrite shaman decks (all 3) and against death & taxes.

    grave titan: good against karakas, swords to plowshares, rest in peace, and liliana of the veil.

    elesh norn: good against decks with small creatures that go wide (d&t, elves, etc.)

    ashen rider: bring in against sneak & show and the mirror

    blazing archon: bring in against any deck that wins with creatures, especially if that deck has access to karakas (D&T, Eldrazi, Elves, etc.). also excellent against sneak & show.

    inkwell leviathan: bring in against decks with karakas and swords (seeing a trend?). especially good against D&T, lands and miracles.

    iona: bring in against mono-colored decks and spell-based combo decks. also great in the mirror.

    pithing needle (not in my GP list but it is in my list now): bring in against karakas, Jace, top, sneak attack, liliana of the veil, etc.

    What should I sideboard out?
    - Keep your ratios the same.
    - If you are bringing in more fatties, take out fatties in their place.
    - If you are bringing in "answers" (such as Wear/Tear, Faerie Macabre, Pithing Needle, or Brutality) then remove "answers" (unmask/thoughtseize) from the mainboard. I would never play less than 6 answers nor more than 8 (except in the mirror where I drop exhumes for faeries).
    - Unmask is best vs. Blue decks and Thoughtseize is best vs. nonblue decks. Keep that in mind when you are deciding what to remove to make room for Wear/Tear or Brutality.
    - The only time I ever remove reanimation spells is in the mirror (i.e., I take out 3 Exhume for 3 faerie)
    - Sire of Insanity is the best turn 1 reanimation target on the play. He is not that great at any point thereafter. For that reason, I almost always remove him when I am on the Draw and replace with a different fatty. The only exception is if I am playing against spell-based combo (ANT, TES, doomsday, High Tide, etc.) where he is amazing at any point in the game. Also if I am fighting Rest in Peace and might need to hard-cast a fatty, I sometimes leave him in.
    Last edited by jroharo; 01-17-2017 at 11:43 AM.

  5. #665

    Re: [Primer] BRx Griselbrand Reanimator

    I'm sure everyone reads Channel Fireball, but this is relevant since someone last week asked for an SB guide.

    http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...-guide-legacy/

    Also, thanks to jroharo for posting the above guide. Very interesting and helpful.
    Last edited by menloe; 01-17-2017 at 03:04 PM. Reason: Gotta give props to jroharo
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  6. #666

    Re: [Primer] BRx Griselbrand Reanimator

    Thank you so much for such Sideboarding plan stuff :)

  7. #667
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    Re: [Primer] BRx Griselbrand Reanimator

    Quote Originally Posted by menloe View Post
    I'm sure everyone reads Channel Fireball, but this is relevant since someone last week asked for an SB guide.

    http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...-guide-legacy/

    Also, thanks to jroharo for posting the above guide. Very interesting and helpful.
    Thanks for posting that link - I hadn't seen it yet. He has some interesting points I'd like to try out. And also no problem!

    Quote Originally Posted by Siruskayteam View Post
    Thank you so much for such Sideboarding plan stuff :)
    No problem! best of luck

  8. #668

    Re: [Primer] BRx Griselbrand Reanimator

    Quote Originally Posted by menloe View Post
    I'm sure everyone reads Channel Fireball, but this is relevant since someone last week asked for an SB guide.

    http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...-guide-legacy/

    Also, thanks to jroharo for posting the above guide. Very interesting and helpful.
    Really helpful article. I find it interesting he doesn't use decay in his sideboarding guide and he doesn't seem all that into reverent silence either.

  9. #669
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    Re: [Primer] BRx Griselbrand Reanimator

    Quote Originally Posted by akwing00 View Post
    Really helpful article. I find it interesting he doesn't use decay in his sideboarding guide and he doesn't seem all that into reverent silence either.
    Personally, I think the green splash is bad. It takes up too many slots in your board and the cards (while independently better than Wear/Tear) are not as flexible as Wear/Tear.

  10. #670

    Re: [Primer] BRx Griselbrand Reanimator

    Quote Originally Posted by jroharo View Post
    Personally, I think the green splash is bad. It takes up too many slots in your board and the cards (while independently better than Wear/Tear) are not as flexible as Wear/Tear.
    The green splash doesn't sacrifice speed like the white splash does. Wear // tear is more flexible but decay is better vs miracles and reverent silence is better vs leyline decks. I initially thought the white splash was better but after really thinking about it I like the green one.

  11. #671

    Re: [Primer] BRx Griselbrand Reanimator

    Quote Originally Posted by rlesko View Post
    The green splash doesn't sacrifice speed like the white splash does. Wear // tear is more flexible but decay is better vs miracles and reverent silence is better vs leyline decks. I initially thought the white splash was better but after really thinking about it I like the green one.
    I just find it interesting he doesn't use abrupt decay at all in his sideboard guide. In the comments he seems to be interested in a blue splash for show and tell.

  12. #672
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    Re: [Primer] BRx Griselbrand Reanimator

    Quote Originally Posted by rlesko View Post
    The green splash doesn't sacrifice speed like the white splash does. Wear // tear is more flexible but decay is better vs miracles and reverent silence is better vs leyline decks. I initially thought the white splash was better but after really thinking about it I like the green one.
    Like i said, the green cards are individually better at removing a specific target than Wear/Tear is, but I think the flexibility and compactness (both in taking up room in your SB and in taking up slots in your MB when you bring it in) of wear/tear is preferable.

    Also Abrupt Decay isn't that great vs. miracles anyway. If you need to use it against miracles, you're likely losing anyway (because the game has gone long).

  13. #673

    Re: [Primer] BRx Griselbrand Reanimator

    4 Griselbrand
    1 Tidespout Tyrant
    2 Animate Dead
    4 Exhume
    4 Reanimate
    4 Entomb
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Unmask
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Swamp
    1 Bayou
    3 Badlands
    3 Faithless Looting
    1 Children of Korlis
    2 Thoughtseize
    2 Chrome Mox
    1 Sire of Insanity
    4 Chancellor of the Annex
    4 Serum Powder

    So this is a list I have been playing around with. Children of korlis has been solid with Griselbrand like what we see in the tin fins decks. We can combo off t1, with petal and chrome mox (exile chancellor) we can cast it. Also if you are in white splash as well. It allows for a t1 griselbrand, sire and double chancellor or sire. One of the biggest issues I faced in Louisville was an absurd number of mulligans (I kept 7 once in 8 rounds. Mostly I was 5). I'm trying out serum powders just to make it a little more consistent turn 1. It has increased t1, and it is an easy swap out for sideboards. I'm jamming it this week to see how it rolls though. Anyone tried it yet?

  14. #674
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    Re: [Primer] BRx Griselbrand Reanimator

    Quote Originally Posted by timmorri View Post
    4 Griselbrand
    1 Tidespout Tyrant
    2 Animate Dead
    4 Exhume
    4 Reanimate
    4 Entomb
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Unmask
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Swamp
    1 Bayou
    3 Badlands
    3 Faithless Looting
    1 Children of Korlis
    2 Thoughtseize
    2 Chrome Mox
    1 Sire of Insanity
    4 Chancellor of the Annex
    4 Serum Powder

    So this is a list I have been playing around with. Children of korlis has been solid with Griselbrand like what we see in the tin fins decks. We can combo off t1, with petal and chrome mox (exile chancellor) we can cast it. Also if you are in white splash as well. It allows for a t1 griselbrand, sire and double chancellor or sire. One of the biggest issues I faced in Louisville was an absurd number of mulligans (I kept 7 once in 8 rounds. Mostly I was 5). I'm trying out serum powders just to make it a little more consistent turn 1. It has increased t1, and it is an easy swap out for sideboards. I'm jamming it this week to see how it rolls though. Anyone tried it yet?
    Seems to me like Children of Korlis would make your mulligans worse and also it feels like a win-more card to me.

    Serum Powder also seems like a trap to me. I feel like that card never actually makes glass cannons better, but I could be wrong.

    edit: that being said, let us know how testing goes. I am always curious to see new innovation.

  15. #675

    Re: [Primer] BRx Griselbrand Reanimator

    Quote Originally Posted by jroharo View Post
    Like i said, the green cards are individually better at removing a specific target than Wear/Tear is, but I think the flexibility and compactness (both in taking up room in your SB and in taking up slots in your MB when you bring it in) of wear/tear is preferable.

    Also Abrupt Decay isn't that great vs. miracles anyway. If you need to use it against miracles, you're likely losing anyway (because the game has gone long).
    For sure it is more flexible. And there is really no "correct" answer I think, as I also have a dream to fuse wear // tear to kill leyline + chalice. But I don't find myself choked on SB slots with this deck. It is very straight forward compared to some other decks, as our strategy is so streamlined and fast. So we are able to get under a lot of the hate out there, or be prepared to beat T0 hate such has Leyline, surgical, and faerie.

    I am not sure if I agree about the miracles analysis. It is very possible they put a counterbalance on turn 2 on the play.

  16. #676

    Re: [Primer] BRx Griselbrand Reanimator

    Quote Originally Posted by menloe View Post
    I'm sure everyone reads Channel Fireball, but this is relevant since someone last week asked for an SB guide.

    http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...-guide-legacy/

    Also, thanks to jroharo for posting the above guide. Very interesting and helpful.
    I don't like this sideboard guide. Abrupt Decay is not mentioned as a sideboard card and I use a different strategy: I prefer to remove some Dark Ritual, Unmask and Thoughtseize if side in some answers.

  17. #677

    Re: [Primer] BRx Griselbrand Reanimator

    Quote Originally Posted by jroharo View Post
    Seems to me like Children of Korlis would make your mulligans worse and also it feels like a win-more card to me.

    Serum Powder also seems like a trap to me. I feel like that card never actually makes glass cannons better, but I could be wrong.

    edit: that being said, let us know how testing goes. I am always curious to see new innovation.
    I've run the tendrils list to some success 3 months back. http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13493&d=279341&f=LE http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13811&d=281522&f=LE http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13583&d=279951&f=LE . The lists were very bad (IMO) and early on in the decks life cycle so people weren't running huge amounts of Surgical's.

    If I were to run BR Reanimator with Tendrils this would be my list. http://imgur.com/a/QdMUv

    TBH I found Children of Korlis to be a WIN NOW card rather than a win more card. I've felt that some matchups got better being able to win on the spot rather then win over a few turns and potentially lose to them finding an answer. For example DnT felt better once I was able to Tendrils people the same turn griseldick got karakased.
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  18. #678

    Re: [Primer] BRx Griselbrand Reanimator

    I'm playing this list on Cockatrice.


    I can't wait to get all the cards IRL to test in live !

    1 Polluted Delta
    1 Scrubland
    2 Badlands
    2 Marsh Flats
    2 Swamp
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Grave Titan
    1 Sire of Insanity
    1 Tidespout Tyrant
    4 Chancellor of the Annex
    4 Griselbrand
    2 Chrome Mox
    4 Lotus Petal
    3 Animate Dead
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Entomb
    4 Exhume
    4 Faithless Looting
    4 Reanimate
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Unmask
    SB: 1 Blazing Archon
    SB: 4 Wear / Tear
    SB: 3 Pithing Needle
    SB: 1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
    SB: 1 Inkwell Leviathan
    SB: 1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
    SB: 4 Collective Brutality

    It's kind of a composite of the Green splash list (2chrome mox) but with white.

    Chancellor are very good target on chrome mox to open the sideboard after using them turn 0 As a Daze-Angel.
    I can easily add 3 hate graveyard if needed on the sideboard but for moment i try to see what is the best in and out as i'm new with the pack.

  19. #679

    Re: [Primer] BRx Griselbrand Reanimator

    Quote Originally Posted by KnightJay96 View Post
    I've run the tendrils list to some success 3 months back. http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13493&d=279341&f=LE http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13811&d=281522&f=LE http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13583&d=279951&f=LE . The lists were very bad (IMO) and early on in the decks life cycle so people weren't running huge amounts of Surgical's.

    If I were to run BR Reanimator with Tendrils this would be my list. http://imgur.com/a/QdMUv

    TBH I found Children of Korlis to be a WIN NOW card rather than a win more card. I've felt that some matchups got better being able to win on the spot rather then win over a few turns and potentially lose to them finding an answer. For example DnT felt better once I was able to Tendrils people the same turn griseldick got karakased.
    That's essentially the Children list I would run. Children and Tendrils do change some matchups considerably, specifically a) some combo matchups and b) decks that can answer your creatures relatively easily (D+T, Miracles, Stoneblade). I'm not even sure the Tendrils is necessary because you can probably establish a lock with Archetype + Iona by just looping Children until you can present a literally unbeatable boardstate.

    Edit: I might cut a land for another Thoughtseize though.
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  20. #680
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    Re: [Primer] BRx Griselbrand Reanimator

    Quote Originally Posted by Siruskayteam View Post
    Chancellor are very good target on chrome mox to open the sideboard after using them turn 0 As a Daze-Angel.
    I can easily add 3 hate graveyard if needed on the sideboard but for moment i try to see what is the best in and out as i'm new with the pack.
    I haven't been tempted to test Chrome Mox, but I hadn't thought of the interaction with Chancellor. Doesn't help with Entomb/Reanimate or Faithless/Reanimate though--have you felt like you get more turn 1 Grisels pitching Chancellor like that?

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