[Primer] BRx Griselbrand Reanimator

[Atherion]

Hi guys. New to writing but I wear some time reading and learning from this thread. Specially thanks to DNSolver, keep writing and recording videos man!

My english sucks, sorry.

Now some questions:

Without Miracles is a good moment to run 4 Sire of Insanity maindeck? I love Sire and the posibility of a turn one "win". It's time to leave out Archetype of Endurance? Maindeck Elesh Norm?

I don't run Sire at all, never missed him really. You definitely don't want 4 MD, 4 Grisel is good enough and you will need those chancellors with so many DRS running around. MDing Elesh or Iona is ok, I got Iona for the mirror. Elesh only really shines against dredge, which is a fringe deck anyway. For elves, either is good enough.

[DNSolver]

Here we go on Sire of Insanity again.

On the draw, Sire of Insanity is awful. In some cases, you will just look silly. Here are some turn 1 plays that make Sire look bad on the draw:

Mother of Runes (blocks forever, eventually finds Plow and you die)
White source, pass, swords
Land, dismember it
Maze of Ith or any other Lands opening
Mox Diamond into almost any good 2-drop
Aether Vial into blockers into eventually a really good blocker or removal
Deathrite into topdecked 2-drop

Some 2-drops that are good: Baleful Strix, Tarmogoyf, Decay (if Animate Dead).

So, you are never going to Entomb Sire of Insanity except against Storm or Sneak and Show, which are already great matchups that you can win with Griselbrand + draw 14 + discard spells or Iona. So why have it instead of Tidespout (which changes some matchups drastically) or Iona (which locks people out) or Chancellor (which is ridiculous, might still be ridiculous post-ban).

Edit: Looks like someone got here before me too :D Just to repeat, Griselbrand is better than Sire. Sire doesn't instantly win as many concernable matchups as Tidespout or Iona and doesn't help you get *a* creature out like Chancellor.

[JaiAlai]

Thanks for the answers guys!

[ShiftedClock]

I'm a Modern specialist trying to understand Legacy better. I have three questions that I'd appreciate a more experienced player's perspective on.

1) If Blood Moon decks get better post-Top, does that make a SSG build with Blood Moon sideboard more viable? i.e. does it make sense for BR Reanimator to attack on the same axis?

2) With the hard lock gone, the chance to combo out again in the mid-game becomes more relevant. Does Burning Wish become more desirable to increase consistency and the chance to rebuild with 1 Buried Alive + 1 Exhume as Wish targets?

This may be too slow and durdly, because we can often beat a turn 1 DRS through sheer speed. The best anti-DRS​ BW targets are Cave-In and Flameshot, neither of which are awesome.

3) Or does UB become better again, as people find more room for SB hate with Miracles gone?

My thinking may be off​ the mark, I'd love to hear your thoughts. It took me about two years to really understand the dynamics of Modern's top decks, and Legacy is proving to be a whole new can of worms, so to speak. But I love brewing in Modern now, and I want to understand Legacy better so I can brew here too. Thanks.

[Kobra_D]

I'm a Modern specialist trying to understand Legacy better. I have three questions that I'd appreciate a more experienced player's perspective on.

1) If Blood Moon decks get better post-Top, does that make a SSG build with Blood Moon sideboard more viable? i.e. does it make sense for BR Reanimator to attack on the same axis?

2) With the hard lock gone, the chance to combo out again in the mid-game becomes more relevant. Does Burning Wish become more desirable to increase consistency and the chance to rebuild with 1 Buried Alive + 1 Exhume as Wish targets?

This may be too slow and durdly, because we can often beat a turn 1 DRS through sheer speed. The best anti-DRS​ BW targets are Cave-In and Flameshot, neither of which are awesome.

3) Or does UB become better again, as people find more room for SB hate with Miracles gone?

My thinking may be off​ the mark, I'd love to hear your thoughts. It took me about two years to really understand the dynamics of Modern's top decks, and Legacy is proving to be a whole new can of worms, so to speak. But I love brewing in Modern now, and I want to understand Legacy better so I can brew here too. Thanks.

1) Depends on why you're bringing in blood moon. If all the control decks become Czech pile, then it could help but there is probably some combination of creatures that is good here as well. If you want to stop big mana decks (12 post, monoR...) our fast threats tend to be enough if we can hit their leyline/chalice. Our game plan is to win through overly costed threats extremely early and that tends be be enough in these match ups.

2) Burning reanimator was fun but costly. Our combo takes several turns after our opponent knows what we are up to. They can leave up counterspell mana or active DRS's. It has been a thing historically, and could easily come back, but the best part of BR is the speed that we bring and a wish build slows us down by default.

3) UB vs RB is still an ongoing debate. Depends on play style a little bit, budget a little bit, how the meta shifts, things like that. I think a lot of people here have come to the conclusion that RB is their way to go (just as most of the people on the UB thread would say the opposite). But debating that I think is most relevant after the dust settles.

However, I will say that with miracles gone I am much more sold on the white sideboard plan. Green was good, and great against miracles, but white is good with the same type of hate and slimmer. So we can pack more protection against other combo decks or any other hate that rises up against us.

[KnightJay96]

Yeah, good points. DRS increase will likely happen. But that's probably the next thing which gets the axe. I'm curious how the meta will shift.

Joe Lossett gives a his impresssions on the changes

https://twitter.com/oarsman79

My thoughts:

1. As people mentioned DRS will be on the rise now as any bug/delver deck will now be top dog. DNSolver's tech of mainboard collective's may become the norm in response to the new BUG/delver meta.

2. Maindeck bloodmoon increase means a rise in decks that can power it out on turn 1 or 2, which means a rise in chalice decks (Mono Red Sneak Attack & Dragon Stompy). So we can't reduce our abrupt decays in the SB (or at least lets wait)

3. As people mentioned there are now less SB slots dedicated to Miracles, so they'll be used to hate on graveyard or combo decks.

[Jeff]

1) If Blood Moon decks get better post-Top, does that make a SSG build with Blood Moon sideboard more viable? i.e. does it make sense for BR Reanimator to attack on the same axis?

2) With the hard lock gone, the chance to combo out again in the mid-game becomes more relevant. Does Burning Wish become more desirable to increase consistency and the chance to rebuild with 1 Buried Alive + 1 Exhume as Wish targets?

This may be too slow and durdly, because we can often beat a turn 1 DRS through sheer speed. The best anti-DRS​ BW targets are Cave-In and Flameshot, neither of which are awesome.

3) Or does UB become better again, as people find more room for SB hate with Miracles gone?

My opinion may not match other's, but I'll give it a go.

1. I already liked Blood Moons in the board of this deck, but ONLY where attacking the mana was used to help us win the game. Primarily that meant against Lands (where we usually need to answer Karakas, Maze, and/or Tabernacle) and against Deathrite decks (where Blood Moon often locks them out of green). I didn't side it in against Eldrazi, for example, where it's usually a very good card, because it doesn't directly impact their hate and we still have to find a way to win. Put another way, I think of Blood Moon in our sideboard as an anti-hate piece, not a lock piece, since we aren't going to follow it up with threats the same way a Goblin Stompy deck might.

2. I think this is asking the wrong question. Come with me on a journey here. BR Reanimator and UB Reanimator are fundamentally different decks that attack different metagames. One is not better than the other in a core way, they're just better at different times because they have different strengths and weaknesses. Distilled to one word each, BR Reanimator is about speed and UB reanimator is about consistency. In a format where you have to beat Rest in Peace, Speed is more important. In my opinion this is why BR Reanimator took off when it did, because everyone was relying on slower but more thorough graveyard hate. In a format where the primary graveyard hate is Surgical or Faerie Macabre, BR loses a lot of it's value. And here's where we're back to your question: If we want to get more resilient and able to reload, what should we do? In my opinion, if you want to reload and be resilient, you should be playing blue, not adding slower and clunkier cards to red. That's not to say blue is better than red overall, just that it's better at that part of the game. I think reanimator players who aren't prepared to switch between the different builds based on a changing metagame do themselves a disservice. TL;DR: No, I wouldn't play Burning Wish.

3. Oh hey look, I kind of answered this one last time around. I think this remains to be seen. BUG Delver is a pretty bad matchup for all reanimator decks, so if that's the big winner from the top ban I'm not sure I'd sleeve up Reanimate at all. As the format shakes out we'll see if it provides more openings for speed or consistency, and go from there.

[Nysrol]

1) If Blood Moon decks get better post-Top, does that make a SSG build with Blood Moon sideboard more viable? i.e. does it make sense for BR Reanimator to attack on the same axis?

2) With the hard lock gone, the chance to combo out again in the mid-game becomes more relevant. Does Burning Wish become more desirable to increase consistency and the chance to rebuild with 1 Buried Alive + 1 Exhume as Wish targets?

This may be too slow and durdly, because we can often beat a turn 1 DRS through sheer speed. The best anti-DRS​ BW targets are Cave-In and Flameshot, neither of which are awesome.

3) Or does UB become better again, as people find more room for SB hate with Miracles gone?

1. Blood moon is good but it isn't what we are trying to do, we want to resolve a fatty not be on the long game plan.

2. I tried burning wish, it has play but its a lot of hope for little pay off. I would much rather cut Sire, add children and tendrils to the main. If i continue to main this deck that will be my going plan, I want to make sure when grisslebrand hits i win on the spot.

3. Debate as mention above works as discussed

My main change to the main board is with the uptick in creature decks, mainly to run Collective Brutality in the main to kill DRS... but I am thinking i will jsut play burn until the meta shifts and we see what hate becomes common.

[hovercraft]

1. Blood moon is good but it isn't what we are trying to do, we want to resolve a fatty not be on the long game plan.

2. I tried burning wish, it has play but its a lot of hope for little pay off. I would much rather cut Sire, add children and tendrils to the main. If i continue to main this deck that will be my going plan, I want to make sure when grisslebrand hits i win on the spot.

3. Debate as mention above works as discussed

My main change to the main board is with the uptick in creature decks, mainly to run Collective Brutality in the main to kill DRS... but I am thinking i will jsut play burn until the meta shifts and we see what hate becomes common.

Collective Brutality is great. I like 2 main and play one in my Wish board. I play Burning Reanimator with LEDs that can storm out and have Tendrils in the wish board. I had been looking for a good sorcery for pitching creatures to grave yard in the Wish board but still provide other value. Will be interesting to see how much GY hate will come out if people are afraid of DRS bug decks, but I think having a storm-out option will be the way to go for some resiliency. Can still run Stronghold Gambit in the wish board, and Sneak in the side too.

[ShiftedClock]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. Maindeck Collective Brutality over Unmask seems appealing in a DRS-heavy meta, which could be even better if Stoneforge decks become more prevalent.

My opinion may not match other's, but I'll give it a go.

1. I already liked Blood Moons in the board of this deck, but ONLY where attacking the mana was used to help us win the game. Primarily that meant against Lands (where we usually need to answer Karakas, Maze, and/or Tabernacle) and against Deathrite decks (where Blood Moon often locks them out of green). I didn't side it in against Eldrazi, for example, where it's usually a very good card, because it doesn't directly impact their hate and we still have to find a way to win. Put another way, I think of Blood Moon in our sideboard as an anti-hate piece, not a lock piece, since we aren't going to follow it up with threats the same way a Goblin Stompy deck might.

2. I think this is asking the wrong question. Come with me on a journey here. BR Reanimator and UB Reanimator are fundamentally different decks that attack different metagames. One is not better than the other in a core way, they're just better at different times because they have different strengths and weaknesses. Distilled to one word each, BR Reanimator is about speed and UB reanimator is about consistency. In a format where you have to beat Rest in Peace, Speed is more important. In my opinion this is why BR Reanimator took off when it did, because everyone was relying on slower but more thorough graveyard hate. In a format where the primary graveyard hate is Surgical or Faerie Macabre, BR loses a lot of it's value. And here's where we're back to your question: If we want to get more resilient and able to reload, what should we do? In my opinion, if you want to reload and be resilient, you should be playing blue, not adding slower and clunkier cards to red. That's not to say blue is better than red overall, just that it's better at that part of the game. I think reanimator players who aren't prepared to switch between the different builds based on a changing metagame do themselves a disservice. TL;DR: No, I wouldn't play Burning Wish.

3. Oh hey look, I kind of answered this one last time around. I think this remains to be seen. BUG Delver is a pretty bad matchup for all reanimator decks, so if that's the big winner from the top ban I'm not sure I'd sleeve up Reanimate at all. As the format shakes out we'll see if it provides more openings for speed or consistency, and go from there.

So is Blood Moon a sufficient enough answer to DRS for us to forego Abrupt Decay in the board? If there's an uptick in Rest in Peace then Abrupt Decay retains it's value.

That point #2 was fantastic. Exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for, thank you. I'll keep an eye out for a cheap Underground Sea.

[Jeff]

[QUOTE=ShiftedClock;1003173]So is Blood Moon a sufficient enough answer to DRS for us to forego Abrupt Decay in the board? If there's an uptick in Rest in Peace then Abrupt Decay retains it's value.

I'm still a little undecided on this. I've had it be amazing, but I've also had it be terrible. I've lost to double deathrite after I resolved a blood moon. I've lost to not getting 3 mana for blood moon. I've lost to my 3 mana blood moon get dazed or pierced. On the other hand, I've had it completely win me the game in a way no other card would, so . . . yeah. I'll be honest I kind of stepped away from this deck because of the prevalence of Surgical in basically everything, so I never really came to a complete decision on what was best. I never did like boarding in Decay vs deathrite because those decks are also wasteland decks and having to fetch up green mana was always rough, but on the other hand uncounterable answers are neat.

That point #2 was fantastic. Exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for, thank you. I'll keep an eye out for a cheap Underground Sea.

You're welcome :) Glad I could help. For what it's worth my tournament report from GP Lousiville is available, as well as the Sideboard Guide I was using. I never did test monoblack much as I mention in the article because I didn't have Unmasks and Lilianas online and they were pretty vital. Tested a little on paper and liked it but didn't test enough to draw conclusions. BR and UB are probably just better.

[DarkCrylis]

This is the list I've been running post ban and has done pretty decently (4-0, 3-1, 3-1) in some local FNM style events with Elves, DNT, Omnitel, Delver, 4c Control being the bigger showings.

Creatures:11
1 Sire of Insanity
4 Chancellor of the Annex
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3 Griselbrand
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

Spells:37
2 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
4 Faithless Looting
4 Reanimate
4 Thoughtseize
3 Animate Dead
4 Collective Brutality
4 Exhume

Lands:12
2 Badlands
1 Bayou
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Marsh Flats
3 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp

Sideboard:15
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Grave Titan
1 Archetype of Endurance
1 Blazing Archon
2 Pithing Needle
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Reverent Silence

[JaiAlai]

This is the list I've been running post ban and has done pretty decently (4-0, 3-1, 3-1) in some local FNM style events with Elves, DNT, Omnitel, Delver, 4c Control being the bigger showings.

Creatures:11
1 Sire of Insanity
4 Chancellor of the Annex
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3 Griselbrand
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

Spells:37
2 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
4 Faithless Looting
4 Reanimate
4 Thoughtseize
3 Animate Dead
4 Collective Brutality
4 Exhume

Lands:12
2 Badlands
1 Bayou
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Marsh Flats
3 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp

Sideboard:15
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Grave Titan
1 Archetype of Endurance
1 Blazing Archon
2 Pithing Needle
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Reverent Silence

Keranos against what?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

So why the lack of unmask? I thought they would be better than thoughtseize now because Combo and Delver are more prevalent now than they were.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[DarkCrylis]

So why the lack of unmask? I thought they would be better than thoughtseize now because Combo and Delver are more prevalent now than they were.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Sorry I thought that was the updated list I run, the list I ran had a 2/2 split between the brutality and the unmasks. Might try the removal of thoughtseize, then just run the unmasks and brutality but not sure yet.

[DarkCrylis]

Keranos against what?

DNT mostly, gets around containment priest game 2. Also works against delver and some other things

[JaiAlai]

This deck made top-8 at the MKM series of Frankfurt. 437 players.
http://series.magiccardmarket.eu/cov...rt-2017-legacy

Walter Wölfler- Reanimator
Main Deck:

4 Griselbrand
4 Chancelor of the Annex
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Tidespout Tyrant
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Animate Dead
4 Faithless Looting
4 Entomb
4 Thoughtseize
4 Collective Brutality
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
1 Chrome Mox
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
2 Badlands
2 Swamp
1 Godless Shrine

Sideboard:

4 Wear // Tear
3 Blood Moon
4 Stronghold Gambit
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Grave Titan

[HansoRaptor]

Very good list. I like the inclusion of only one Chrome Mox, as opposed to two or zero. What I don't like is the mainboard Iona. I would rather play the Grave Titan in her place as I feel like there is too much BUG and Karakas around. The choice of Stronghold Gambit in the Sideboard makes sense with the return of Storm and Lands. I just can't bring myself to replace my Unmasks with Collective Brutalities, I just love them way too much.

I was also playing in the Legacy mainevent of the MKM Series and finished with a rather disappointing (but expected) finish of 5 - 5. I felt like the meta was really hostile. I saw in many decks multiple Flusterstorms, Containment Priests, Surgicals, Cages, Relics, and of Course Deathrite Shamans. I saw literally every hate possible and sometimes multiple in a single starting hand game 2 and 3 (The best was Affinity G3 with 2 Surgicals, 1 Cage and 1 Relic ). Well I guess for some that was not a problem, as we can see in this Top 8 finish.

Lost to:
- Affinity (0:2)
- BUG Delver (1:2)
- Grixis Delver (1:2)
- Back to Basics UW Control? (1:2)
- Burn (0:2)

Won against
- Mono B Reanimator (2:1)
- UB Reanimator (2:0)
- BUG Control (2:0)
- Death & Taxes (2:1)
- Death & Taxes (2:0)

[marshalltj]

Writeup from the 2nd place at MKM series: https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/c...br_reanimator/

[Darkness]

I am interested in buying into the deck as I just recently sold my Grixis Delver and Eldrazi cards for cash I needed. I like how cheap and power the deck is. Since SDT banning is the Green version or the White version of the deck better now? I would assume that White works well with wear and tear to hit chalice on 1. What is the communities suggestion on buying into this deck and the color post top banning. I used to play UB reanimator when stone blade ran king so I am familiar with play style, though I do understand that BR plays differently than UB.