[Primer] BRx Griselbrand Reanimator

[DNSolver]

I am kinda the expert on depths and reanimator. While this plan would be OK vs delver, I don't think it would be good against decks with baleful strix + jace (which turbo depths can easily beat) or any deck with plow. That makes it pretty restricted to delver, but how about I try that out sometime next week?

[Ingo]

Sideboard:
4x Dark Depths
4x Thespain’s Stage
4x Vampire Hexmage
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Grave Titan

As you only need the 4x Urborgs to make a T2 token through Depths - Urborg - Hexmage, wouldn't you consider splashing green for some Crop Rotations, leaving only 1 or 2 Urborg? As deckspace is tight as it's all fitting in 15 sidecards, Crop Rotation seems to give value as it tutors up both Stage or Depths, or Urborg.
You could cut 2x Urborg and Titan from the side for 3 copies, and swap a maindeck Urborg for a Bayou. The chrome moxen could be 2 fetches to make access to green more likely.

[XIII]

I am kinda the expert on depths and reanimator. While this plan would be OK vs delver, I don't think it would be good against decks with baleful strix + jace (which turbo depths can easily beat) or any deck with plow. That makes it pretty restricted to delver, but how about I try that out sometime next week?

Yeah, that's why I called for your insight. There was no offense ment, thanks for your reaction ;) How come that turbo depths can easily beat strix and plow and this build cannot? For the decks with plow, I was actually thinking adding a bitter blossom to the 75. If Marit Lage gets plowed, then more flying fearies..
The guys who played this build main deck had some good results, so it would be great if you could try it out next week. Thanks!!

[XIII]

As you only need the 4x Urborgs to make a T2 token through Depths - Urborg - Hexmage, wouldn't you consider splashing green for some Crop Rotations, leaving only 1 or 2 Urborg? As deckspace is tight as it's all fitting in 15 sidecards, Crop Rotation seems to give value as it tutors up both Stage or Depths, or Urborg.
You could cut 2x Urborg and Titan from the side for 3 copies, and swap a maindeck Urborg for a Bayou. The chrome moxen could be 2 fetches to make access to green more likely.

Yeah I was also thinking about adding 3x Crop Rotation instead of 2x Urborg and 1x Grave Titan. The guys who played with this build main deck on mtg top 8 didn't add the crop rotation. At the moment I was wondering the same as you, why wouldn't they add some crop rotation? Maybe because they attack from different angles as in reanimator, marit lage and hardcasting grave titan (and grisel).

[DNSolver]

Crop Rotation would be interesting to put in but we don't play enough lands, especially bad in multiples.

Dank Depths can easily beat Strix -> Jace by Decay on Strix, land search -> Sejiri Steppe, Needle on Jace, and the advantage of being able to re-combo quickly by sheer redundancy with all the land searches that they play (essentially if we could play Demonic Tutor in this deck).

[Ingo]

Crop Rotation would be interesting to put in but we don't play enough lands, especially bad in multiples.

.

Don't forget you're up to 22 lands when you include Stage/Depths, the same amount as the ReaniDepths deck linked on the previous page, and it also relies on saccing some amount of lands (to Lake of the Dead).

[Luca Grease]

I assume that by "beating strix" y'all referring to "not getting chump blocked by it for a turn". I mean, with Marit Lage being indestructible and all...

[DNSolver]

Baleful Strix chump-blocking turns on sorcery-speed removal for Marit Lage, which includes Jace and Liliana of the Veil out of the decks that are running Baleful Strix.

[Ingo]

I played a stocklist BR Reanimator with a transformational Dark Depths sideboard last nights FNM. And wanted to share the experience.
The side was 4 Depths / 4 Stage / 4 Hexmage / 3 Croprotation
In the main I played 8 fetches, 2 badlands, 1 bayou, 1 Urborg and 2 swamp (so no chrome mox).

Match1: Miracles.
Won game1 through T1 combo. Game 2 I boarded in the DD package, and my opponent kept a strong anti-graveyard hand. He surgicaled Grisel and played Containment Priest (unfortunately I boarded out Collective Brutality). I drew into multiple combopieces and crops, and made Marit Lage 3 times to win (the first two were met by Unexpectedly absent and Snapcaster). I think I had some luck, because I did draw plenty of Stage/Depths/Crops and he didn't have the swords

Match2: Lands
Not much to say about the DD package, because its no good here an didnt board it. Won in three games through standard speedy reanimations.

Match 3: Painter
Won game1, and gambled he would board out his Bloodmoons game2. He didn't, and I was severely punished as he played a T1 Crypt, and a T2 Bloodmoon. Lost game3 (which was boarded back to maindeck conditions) to mulling to 5 and not having a good enough hand.

Match 4: Omnitell
Won game1 by having Griselbrand and Iona on the table T1. Did not board for game2 and was punished by a T1 Cage. I did have Griselbrand in play after my opponent Show and Telled Emrakul, but lost as I drew 21 cards to find and hardcast Tidespout and three petals, which I didn't find ofcourse.
Boarded the DD package back in for the third game, and had a slower start (which happens as the DD package trades for speed). He played a Cage after some turns, but was kept of comboing by some discard, and Marit Lage took the game.

All in all the DD package was okay. It's an al or nothing package, so sometimes I got screwed by a lone Cage when not boarding in the package. And other times I clearly screwed up by boarding it in (as versus painter). I suspect it's a strong package against Leyline of the Void, but that it isn't great against Swords + Snapcaster decks.

[sidewelljunky]

I run the white splash, but I'll definitly test the green splash though.

One argument I can imagine in favor of the "white" splash is that it's actually more red than white (Stronghold gambit, Wear, possibly blood moon), and then you rely on your Scrubland only against Leyline (and RiP, but RiP is 2 mana and Tear only one). It's micro-splash where Green splash is real splash. With Decay I imagine you rely on your only one Bayou A LOT and it seems quite dangerous against DNT and Grixis.
Also if I think of Darkness's list, I see only a few cases where decay is really greater than Wear/Tear :

Greater

Grafdiggers Cage : great as decay's not to be countered
Deathrite Shaman : yes, of course decay's great
Liliana, of the Veil : slow, but terrible if they extract/daze you first ; so yes decay can be great
Containment Priest : sure, but usually the best chance to beat DNT is to win T1 (or T2 on the play)
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben : decay might be too slow anyway because of mana denial, but still better than nothing

Interesting, but not huge

Baleful Strix : not a big target, if you succeed reanimating early you win even with Strix on board, if you don't you probably loose ; and Strix gets also hit by Wear
Leovold, Emissary of Trest : very annoying but a bit slow and Czech pile is already a good matchup
Delver of Secrets : well, if Delver's a threat, you have probably lost already
Spirit of the Labyrinth : probably not the first target, and you probably won't have your Bayou left on board after using a first decay
Phyrexian Revoker : not the biggest problem of DNT
Tarmogoyf : interesting in fact if they Daze you, but not priority target
Vendilion Clique : can be a problem against Patriot blade when then STP your threats, sink the game into sluggish mid-game with empty boards and combo Clique with Karakas, but well that's the rare bird

Others are artifacts with no counter magic back ups or unworthy targets

So maybe Decay makes 8 slots SB instead of 4 worth, maybe not, depends probably of taste and meta as it has already been said a lot.

Other argument is that you can get Leyline AND Chalice against Stompy or Eldrazi, and more seldomly RiP AND Chalice against DNT ; in that case you're happier with wear/tear than with decay. I do agree that you also can get (seldomly) 2 Leylines on board T0, and then Reverent is better, and also that Decay is so polyvalent.

[Darkness]

I've gotten the chance to test about 25 games and won about 18 of them so far with the revisit to green splash. Most of the time when I'm not sure of the potential hate my opponents bring in I'm bringing in 3 decays and taking out 1 Ritual, 1 chrome Mox, and 1 kind of reanimation effect. If I do know what I'm going to see it's a bit easier to deal with. I'm really happy with this change back to Green DNSolver is onto something .

[marshalltj]

I've been on the white splash for awhile but have considered going back to green (once the prevalence of surgical dies down that is, playing Turbo Depths in the meantime) but 4 abrupt decay seems so jarring to me. What matchups are we playing where we need 4 abrupt decay and how are we siding to not dilute our gameplan?

[DNSolver]

Very rarely do all 4 Decays come in.

Usually I bring in all 4, along with 4 Reverent Silence, over a creature, some Brutalities, and some fast mana vs Leyline + Chalice decks (Aggro Loam, Eldrazi) because we're rarely going to want to combo super fast in these matchups (usually have to deal with a Leyline first). I bring in a maximum of 3 blind or without seeing Cage or whatnot. If I see one-shot permanent-based graveyard hate (or Counterbalance that's been making a resurgence) I bring in all 4, usually over some combo of a creature, Brutality, and fast mana.

[Darkness]

Very rarely do all 4 Decays come in.

Usually I bring in all 4, along with 4 Reverent Silence, over a creature, some Brutalities, and some fast mana vs Leyline + Chalice decks (Aggro Loam, Eldrazi) because we're rarely going to want to combo super fast in these matchups (usually have to deal with a Leyline first). I bring in a maximum of 3 blind or without seeing Cage or whatnot. If I see one-shot permanent-based graveyard hate (or Counterbalance that's been making a resurgence) I bring in all 4, usually over some combo of a creature, Brutality, and fast mana.

I too have adopted this 3 In Decay unless another Anti GY target has been established. DNSolver have you considered updating the Primer since the meta has shifted post Top banning? I would love to contribute if you were ever up for the project.

[DNSolver]

I would love updates to the primer. I am going to probably be too busy at school until my term ends in mid-October. If you have some free time and want to write up some paragraphs and send them to me via PM I'll be sure to drop them in and credit you. Just as long as you don't recommend playing Sire of Insanity.

[TheStalk]

@ Darkness: You mentionned when I originally posted my SB guide that Pithing Needle/Blood Moon/etc were missing. I noted that you've tested several of these cards (which I haven't, which is why I didn't include them). If you have the time/motivation to send me a quick run down of what matchups you brought those cards in for, what you'd cut from the main deck when boarding and any remarks you feel are relevant enough to be featured in the guide, I'd love to add them and finalize the guide.

Also paging Jeff on this on, as I know you've played some of the cards I omitted (notably Blood Moon).

@ DNSolver: Once I've got my SB guide updated, I'd be happy to see it go up in the primer if you want to use it. It would get much more visibility there than on page 57 of the thread, and might yield a net positive of fewer redundant sideboarding questions clogging up the thread.

[Darkness]

@ Darkness: You mentionned when I originally posted my SB guide that Pithing Needle/Blood Moon/etc were missing. I noted that you've tested several of these cards (which I haven't, which is why I didn't include them). If you have the time/motivation to send me a quick run down of what matchups you brought those cards in for, what you'd cut from the main deck when boarding and any remarks you feel are relevant enough to be featured in the guide, I'd love to add them and finalize the guide.

I can do this give me a week or too back in class and lots of homework and studying to do, plus other life obiligations but I'd be happy to.

On that note I still think it is not correct to play these cards as Abrupt Decay has been infinitely better. But I can definelty give a breakdown of the sideboarding guide for these cards.

[Jeff]

What Blood Moon is good for

- Denying Deathrite+Delver decks access to Spell Pierce, Daze, and green mana for Deathrite. Because Delver is better at 1for1ing you into oblivion, I often find I need a single card that will negate multiples of theirs. That's why I prefer Moon against them instead of Decay. Decay answers one Deathrite. Moon can turn off many different things at once.
- Beating the wide variety of things Lands can do against you. Tidespout is great if you have a Griselbrand already and can reliably cast a bunch of spells, but otherwise you can have trouble dealing with all of their different cards. Again, Blood Moon answers many of their things at once.

What Blood Moon is not good for

- Manascrewing decks. Especially decks like Eldrazi. The majority of their hate can be played through moon or before it comes down, and they will eventually find a way to win around it if you can't answer their hate.
- Answering Karakas out of non-dedicated lands decks. D&T, Miracles, Maverick. Tidespout and Grave Titan are better for this than trying to lock the card out. You can't afford to spend limited hate slots answering one of the least important hate cards against you.

[TheStalk]

I can do this give me a week or too back in class and lots of homework and studying to do, plus other life obiligations but I'd be happy to.

On that note I still think it is not correct to play these cards as Abrupt Decay has been infinitely better. But I can definelty give a breakdown of the sideboarding guide for these cards.

No problem on the wait, I'm in no hurry. I personally don't advocate for those cards either, but since they are cards that some players choose to play, I think it might be helpful to outline when they'd be useful and whatnot so that players can build their sideboard in the way they feel best suits their playstyle or local metagame.

On another note, you've got me seriously considering going back to the green splash, the one card I'd miss from my white SB is the Grave Titan. I'm not sure if I'd just go without or talk myself into cutting one 4-of down to 3 to include it.

[TheStalk]

What Blood Moon is good for

- Denying Deathrite+Delver decks access to Spell Pierce, Daze, and green mana for Deathrite. Because Delver is better at 1for1ing you into oblivion, I often find I need a single card that will negate multiples of theirs. That's why I prefer Moon against them instead of Decay. Decay answers one Deathrite. Moon can turn off many different things at once.
- Beating the wide variety of things Lands can do against you. Tidespout is great if you have a Griselbrand already and can reliably cast a bunch of spells, but otherwise you can have trouble dealing with all of their different cards. Again, Blood Moon answers many of their things at once.

What Blood Moon is not good for

- Manascrewing decks. Especially decks like Eldrazi. The majority of their hate can be played through moon or before it comes down, and they will eventually find a way to win around it if you can't answer their hate.
- Answering Karakas out of non-dedicated lands decks. D&T, Miracles, Maverick. Tidespout and Grave Titan are better for this than trying to lock the card out. You can't afford to spend limited hate slots answering one of the least important hate cards against you.

What cards were you cutting to bring in Moon? Would you bring in Moon vs Deathrite decks that don't play Delver, such as Czech Pile?