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Thread: Oracle Opposition

  1. #41
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    Re: Oracle Opposition

    just as a heads up, pierre said he beat 4 lands players in that BoM tourney. also i think the shardless agent is useful for the shardless and miracles matchups, if you don't expect a lot of either of them maybe pack something a bit stronger. i'm even going to try a jitte in the deck to help with the grixis matchup.

    -Rob
    -rob

  2. #42

    Re: Oracle Opposition

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    just as a heads up, pierre said he beat 4 lands players in that BoM tourney.
    Yeah, maybe it's just variance or me keeping bad hands, but I never felt I was playing magic against Lands. The Grixis MU was better, but still not good. I will try a Jitte in one slot.

  3. #43
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    Re: Oracle Opposition

    still been rather busy moving around. might be a few weeks before i get a tourney or two in with the deck.
    -rob

  4. #44
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    Re: Oracle Opposition

    local weekly in Copenhagen, 6 rounds! had a lot of fun.

    list was

    4 hierarch
    4 oracle
    3 visionary
    3 deathrite shaman
    2 symbiote
    1 craterhoof
    4 gsz
    4 therapy
    4 probe
    3 opposition
    3 garruk wildspeaker
    3 abrupt decay
    1 winter orb
    2 forest
    4 misty
    3 verdant
    2 dread arbor
    4 cradle
    2 trop
    1 sea
    2 bayou

    sb
    1 null rod
    1 pitching needle
    1 marsh casualties
    1 spellskite
    1 reclamation sage
    1 scavenging ooze
    1 dismember
    1 thoughtseize
    2 surgical extraction
    2 winter orb
    3 thorn of amethyst


    storm (2-1)
    game 1
    opponent a little rusty and a turn 1 deathrite shaman + cabal therapy puts him in a bad position
    game 2 hand was too slow
    game 3 cabal therapy on a good hand, but the 2nd therapy + flashback was too much.

    miracles (1-1)
    very long game 1 can't remember much but my hand couldn't beat the first terminus + stp + snapcaster

    game 2, also long but I was able to get in a bunch of damage and deathrite shaman finished him off as his draw wasn't so good and was topdecking. I recall playing around containment priest. (his draw had mostly creatures and not spells)

    then we drew


    esper stoneblade (1-2)
    game 1 i had a good draw game 1 and he was overwhelmed
    game 2 he had a pretty good draw + jitte and tasigur. then he got back his jitte with tasigur.


    bug Delver (2-1)

    Game 1 he beat me with DRS and double goyfs. he had a turn 1 DRS + daze and it was hard to recover

    game 2 opposition locked him down
    game 3 his draw was not that great and didn't have many spells. I marsh casualties 2 flipped delver and he never really recovered.

    deaths shadow (2-0)
    game 1 had removal and his draw was just ok. cabal therapy was good here as well.

    game 2 he thoughtseized and saw a clear path, but I drew another one the turn after. also had spellskite which prevented him from pumping his guy

    miracles (1-2)

    game 1 I blind cabal therapy 3 brainstorm and he never recovers

    game 2 I sided out 1 decay as most miracles players tend to side them out for more removal, he played a counterbalance and blind flipped me a few times. then he got an entreat for 3 (i had the game stalled a bit with a thorn)

    game 3 counterbalance + top lock and I never drew an abrupt decay. had 2 winter orbs out which were great but he had an engineered explosives and had a 2nd cbalance in hand.


    thoughts on deck, maybe would want a 3rd symbiote, cut birds, want possibly 2 cavern of souls in sb.

    i could see dropping the misers maindeck* winter orb and 1 garruk, 1 opposition.

    with the birds and those 3 there are 4 more slots.

    swap forest #2 for possibly a cavern of souls.

    4 cards left
    open to suggestions. brainstorm is prob worth a shot. was fun overall.


    17-10 including modo
    11-2-1 for paper tourneys only

    5 eldrazi (5-0)
    3 infect (1-2)
    5 miracles (1-2-1)
    2 show and tell decks (0-2)
    3 storm (1-2)
    2 reanimator (2-0)
    1 elves (0-1)
    1 ur delver (1-0)
    1 bug nic fit (0-1)
    1 bug delver (1-0)
    1 death's shadow aggro (1-0)
    1 esper stoneblade (0-1)
    1 ur standstill (1-0)
    1 merfolk (1-0)
    1 burn (1-0)
    1 aggro loam (1-0)
    Last edited by mistercakes; 08-10-2016 at 04:44 AM.
    -rob

  5. #45

    Re: Oracle Opposition

    Hello,

    Was nice meeting you there!

    I would try to fit in 2 more symbiotes, 1 birchlore, 2 BS into the 5 slots (4 you mention + 1 noble).
    Your 2 defeats and draw of yesterday were versus grindy MUs, WS + coiling/visionnary (or even DRS) does wonders there.

    I would also like to have a more midrange, high impact GSZ-able creature. Either WRP or deranged hermit. First one is resilient to -1/-1 effects, second one seems incredible with either oppo, WS or garruck and is 9 power on his own.

    Otherwise, a question: is the spellskitse good? You cannot find it, and it does not seem that you want him in that many MUs? Maybe burn and infect, but what else?

  6. #46
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    Re: Oracle Opposition

    -1 hierach, -1 birds of paradise, -1 garruk wildspeaker -1 opposition, -3 abrupt decay, -1 gaea's cradle


    I'm more inclined to try the WRP as hermit feels a bit more clunky if you draw it naturally.

    regarding the spellskite: the card has done really well the few matches i sided it in, even with no card drawing (now 2 brainstorms) it is well worth it in the matchups that you need it. (it can also eat up jitte -1-1 counters)

    The sb needs to be revised.



    last night:
    sb
    1 null rod
    1 pitching needle
    1 marsh casualties
    1 spellskite
    1 reclamation sage
    1 scavenging ooze
    1 dismember
    1 thoughtseize
    2 surgical extraction
    2 winter orb
    3 thorn of amethyst


    proposed with your recommendations:

    maindeck:

    guys (22)

    1 birchlore ranger
    3 hierarch
    4 oracle
    3 visionary
    4 deathrite shaman
    4 symbiote
    1 wren's run packmaster
    1 reclamation sage
    1 craterhoof

    spells (20)

    4 gsz
    4 therapy
    4 probe
    2 opposition
    2 garruk wildspeaker
    1 abrupt decay
    2 brainstorm

    lands (19)

    1 forest
    1 cavern of souls
    4 misty
    3 verdant
    2 dryad arbor
    3 cradle
    2 trop
    1 sea
    2 bayou

    proposed sb:
    1 pithing needle
    1 marsh casualties
    1 spellskite
    1 scavenging ooze
    1 thoughtseize
    2 winter orb
    2 surgical extraction
    3 chalice of the void
    2 abrupt decay
    1 cavern of souls
    Last edited by mistercakes; 08-10-2016 at 09:20 PM.
    -rob

  7. #47

    Re: Oracle Opposition

    How necessary are the 4 cradles?

  8. #48

    Re: Oracle Opposition

    Quote Originally Posted by James718 View Post
    How necessary are the 4 cradles?
    the forth one is maybe not crucial.
    but 3 at the very least are essential. It is a crazy mana acceleration, and one of the reason that Garruck is good, that winter orb can be good, that GSZ is really good, and that hoof is even remotely playable.
    To sum it up, they are really important.

  9. #49
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    Re: Oracle Opposition

    I've played with 4 the whole time, except in some of the modo leagues, but am willing to run a brainstorm over one of them. testing will let me know if this is advantageous.
    -rob

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  11. #51
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    Re: Oracle Opposition

    no arguing with those results. if that person is on the source, could they list match-ups?

    i would probably like to see 2 of those goyfs as true name, as you can get it down in turn 2 and adds to force of will blue count.
    -rob

  12. #52

    Re: Oracle Opposition

    I just ordered 4 Cradles and will play the list on page 1? Any other things I should know?

    Im ready to join you brothers.

    Back in the old Type 2 I played a squirrel/opposition deck which was my favorite deck of all time. I can't wait to jam this.

  13. #53
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    Re: Oracle Opposition

    check the most recent list with 2 brainstorms, i think that's where we're at. the other versions are also just fine!

    i used to play that deck too. skyshroud poacher? he might even be okay as a 1 of in this list if we can include a hermit in the 60 as well.
    -rob

  14. #54

    Re: Oracle Opposition

    I believe hermit may be included (and I will definitely try it) with its incredible synergy with cradle, garruck, symbiote and opposition. Plus the flavour!
    I definitely want one midrange GSZ target, be it him or WRP. Mistercakes convinced me that WRP is probably the right one, but I will try both (most probably Tuesday).

    However, I a am more than convince that poacher is nowhere good enough: dies to bolt, disfigure and P.Fire, needs to untap to do anything, Cost 4+3 to do anything, and there is absolutely 0 other elf cards than hermit worth tutoring in that way.

  15. #55
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    Re: Oracle Opposition

    WRP is significantly worse than Hermit. It doesn't work on an empty board, it's slower, doubly so if you can't spit out a wolf immediately (and if you have enough mana for that you are [almost] at Craterhoof mana). Squirrels have pseudo evasion. One nice thing about WRP is that leaves a body behind when terminused and it can stop Goyf/Angler (but in my testing that was almost never relevant. I do play with Quirion Ranger though which makes Arbor an all star blocker).

  16. #56
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    Re: Oracle Opposition

    I'm not sure if you've played the deck enough.... 5 mana is a lot for this deck without an active cradle. having a Quinton Ranger does help that a lot though.

    hermit is also susceptible to - 1-1 effects as something like a zealous persecution will still clobber you.

    I'm not against hermit, but I don't think that wrp should be dismissed so easily.
    -rob

  17. #57

    Re: Oracle Opposition

    Have to agree with mistercakes here. Admittedly I haven't played the list yet, but I have years of experience with WRP in various elves build, and the card is much much better than what it looks like.
    It is almost a game ending threat against half of the field, being extremely good vs almost every aggro or control MU.

    The comment about empty board is irrelevant, as hermit cannot be realistically cast out of an empty board either.

    On itself, WRP is miles better than hermit. The thing that want me to test hermit is that he has incredible synergies with the deck (WS, oppo, cradle, garruck).
    And admittedly, the flavour, I loved the card since it got printed (gosh, 17 years ago), it is one of my favorite card ever, and winning games with it will most certainly make me smile.

  18. #58

    Re: Oracle Opposition

    Think I may try something like this for my weekly legacy night this evening. It's a very small group of us (barely made 8 last week) and some of the players are pretty inexperienced, but still might be fun just to get some time in.

    Basically a more Elves-centric smashup. Opposition replacing NO, with tweaked creature base. Might be better suited for the Elves thread but should be fun to test regardless.

    Creatures: 29
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Wirewood Symbiote
    4 Nettle Sentinel
    4 Quirion Ranger
    2 Heritage Druid
    2 Birchlore Rangers
    4 Elvish Visionary
    2 Coiling Oracle
    1 Reclamation Sage
    1 Wren's Run Packmaster
    1 Craterhoof Behemoth

    Spells: 11
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    3 Glimpse of Nature
    3 Opposition
    1 Winter Orb

    Lands: 20
    2 Dryad Arbor
    2 Forest
    1 Bayou
    2 Tropical Island
    2 Windswept Heath
    2 Wooded Foothills
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Misty Rainforest
    1 Cavern of Souls
    4 Gaea's Cradle

    I'm not sure of the side yet but it'll probably have some number of Abrupt Decay, Cabal Therapy, Surgical, and maybe another Winter Orb or two. Couple Jitte's as well.

    I think Garruk Wildspeaker could really shine somewhere in the 75, just not sure where to put him. With more creatures, his -1 isn't as needed here. But the Overrun could be more deadly. WRP might just be more consistent with having more elves available.

    If anything seems obviously out of place/odd, let me know and I'll consider it before tonight.

  19. #59
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    Re: Oracle Opposition

    maybe drop 1 nettle for 1 garruk.

    garruk also makes 3/3/s for opposition!
    -rob

  20. #60
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    Re: Oracle Opposition

    I tired the original list in a small event and in 4 rounds I only Opposition-locked my opponent once. In my opinion the best thing about the deck is the card advantage you get with Symbiote and Visionary/Oracle together with having Abrupt Decay and Cabal Therapy. Garruk was also an MVP, it was good every time I played it. And in the same way Shardless Agent always felt week.

    So in my limited testing the deck felt almost like a more midrange Elves deck, which is all nice since I like that aspect of Elves. But I also felt that except for Garruk the deck is very sensitive to the same hate as regular Elves but slow enough that you always have to play through it since you rarely have the option to combo off before hate comes online.

    What I missed was some way to get more explosive mana, like 1 Heritage Druid or a Birchlore Rager. I'm also thinking about adding the 4th Abrupt Decay since I loved it in the games I played. I'm also not sure I love the Gitaxian Probes as a 4-of. I'm thinking 2 or something. Also at least 2 Symbiotes feels mandatory.
    WRP seems like a good complement to Garruk. I would really like having them out at the same time. :)

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