That's the list that a lot of us are gravitating towards. I just feel that it needs at least 2 symbiotes and 1 Leovold
I actually asked the guy which ran the list in Paris, who turned out to be the one building the list for the Annecy bom too exactly about that: if he didn't want a second symbiote, as it is the thing i would put in first.
(it is the one that posted with the Klu pseudonym a bit earlier)
He told me that one is enough as it is easy to fetch for with the 4 GSZ when needed, and more is unwise as it is often quite a bad topdeck. That as long as you can chain cantrip guys into a win condition, it is better than bouncing a cantrip guy without increasing board presence.
i've been pretty happy with two, as people who are used to playing vs elves fear that card and it will be a lightning rod. it is pretty effective in giving you another tap effect for opposition on some turns.
-rob
I've beaten burn only once (but only played vs it once in a tournament) and won 2-0. This was due to some very lucky cabal therapies and some mistakes on his behalf.
I'd recommend if you are having trouble with it to run 1 thragtusk in the main somewhere. at least you can green sun for it and it won't be terrible in other matchups + can flashback therapy as well.
Other than this, it will be a bad matchup. Can't win em all!
-rob
Can anyone explain the advantages/disadvantages this would have against other BUG decks like BUG Nic Fit or Aluren?
They are all BUG decks that use deathrite shaman, abrupt decay and cabal therapy in addition to little dumb creatures and after that they branch into their own little worlds. I really want to play a non-shardless BUG deck that uses Decay and Cabal and am trying to settle on a list.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
I think there's two reasons to play this:
1) nostalgia, if you played when squirrel opposition was in standard it was fun then. This deck is similarly fun.
2) it's like an elf deck, but you get to have a lot more interaction with the opponent. (bad vs combo, good Vs others)
I don't think this deck is better than NO elves, but if you enjoy winning with creatures that aren't delver or tarmogoyf then this will be a fun deck to play. Lots of little decisions add up to a really messy board, which you will control most of it the longer it goes on.
-rob
I will be putting this together this weekend as it looks fun and a nice way to play sole fun magic games as opposed to playing lands/miracles all the time.
I am starting with the Original oracle list and am immediately unhappy with the Green Suns Zenith. They are the worst card to cascade into in that it gives you a free dryad arbor.
I think the decks needs to move off of one of the two cards and wire wood symbiotic #2-4 seem like a good replacement.
I haven't decided which way the deck should go but I am going to try removing both cards and seeing which one has more use in the list.
Also, Leovold is a house and we need to be running at least 1. He shuts down cantrips and rishidan ports and also replaces himself and any other permanent when they are targeted/destroyed. Also, we can play him on turn 2.
Currently:
-4 Green Suns Zenith
-1 coiling oracle
-1 craterhoof behemoth
+3 wirewod symbiot
+3 leovold, emissary of trest
-1 dryad arbor
+1 bayou
EDIT:
Leovold is exactly what the deck needed. Along with Opposition, Leovold adds another annoying piece of the prison/lock similar in how Death and Taxes just piles on hate cards that attack from different angles.
Leovold becomes the first card that the opponents have to deal with, which becomes even more annoying when Wirewood Symbiote is in the mix. The list of cards he affects is much larger than I first thought and he has relevance in almost all games.
Eldrazi: Wasteland, Jitte, Thought-Knot Seer, Warping Wail, Endbringer
Lands: Wasteland, Port, Punishing fire, Maze of Ith,
Death and Taxes: Flickerwisp, Jittte, Sword of Fire and Ice, Banisher Priest, Swords to Plowshares, Karakas
Miracles: Brainstorm, Ponder, Sensei's Divining Top, Jace, Swords to Plowshares
Shardless BUG: Hymn, Thoughtseize, Lilliana, Jace, Abrupt Decay
Grixis Delver: Cabal Therapy, Gitaxian Probe, Lighting Bolt, Brainstorm, Ponder, Forked Bolt, Dismember
Against Combo decks he disables the blue suite of cantrips as well as proactive discard.
I know I am missing examples of him being helpful but this is a rough list of what he does.
I am still on the fence between Shardless Agent and Green Sun's Zenith at this point...
Last edited by lavafrogg; 10-30-2016 at 03:25 PM.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Been testing all week and I am still torn on several "packages", I am playing in a local tonight to get a few non-online reps.
Tonight I will be trying this Aluren/Opposition hybrid, as I noticed the decks share many of the same cards.
Main
Lands(20)
3 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
2 Gaea’s Cradle
3 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
Creatures(20)
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Coiling Oracle
4 Baleful Strix
3 Shardless Agent
3 Cavern Harpy
2 Parasitic Strix
Enchantments(5)
2 Aluren
3 Opposition
Planeswalker(2)
2 Garruk Relentless/Garruk Primal Hunter
Spells(13)
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
While is does lose Wirewood Symbiote, it can play a similar grindy style with Cavern Harpy.
The Garruk has been upgraded because the Cradles are no longer powering out huge GSZ.
The list runs enough blue cards for force of will if deemed needed or in the side against combo.
If i was putting the forces main I would go -4 Cabal Therapy, -2 Gitaxian Probe, +4 Force of Will, +1 Sylvan Library, +1 Garruk.
Proposed Sideboard
4 force of will
3 winter orb
1 nihil spellbomb
1 krosan grip
1 thoughtsieze
2 pithing needle
1 surgical extraction
2 dismember
A similar list with Living Wish...
Main
Lands(20)
3 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
2 Gaea’s Cradle
3 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
Creatures(20)
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Coiling Oracle
4 Baleful Strix
3 Shardless Agent
3 Cavern Harpy
3 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
Enchantments(5)
2 Aluren
3 Opposition
Spells(17)
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Brainstorm
3 Living Wish
Adding Living Wish is also an option to keep the deck moving without wasting main deck space. Living wish also plays great with shardless and gaea's cradle.
So much testing and so many options!
Last edited by lavafrogg; 11-01-2016 at 10:43 PM.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Instead of Aluren, why not play Natural Order? It wins the game very quickly and synergies with the rest of the deck
I find aluren a stronger card.and does more than tutoring up 1 and losing 1.
I was confused by your list but now realize you meant to have 2 Parasitic Strix instead of 2 Baleful Strix.
With that change, yes it makes sense why Aluren is better.
I am trying to lessen the amount of "dead" draws in the list. I really like the original list but I hate the shardless into GSZ play and I feel like baleful strix is a huge upgrade to elvish visionary and helps greatly in goyf/eldrazi fights. Natural Order is open to the 2 for 1 when countered and Aluren should cost the same, but win the game on the spot.
I do like the thought/option of Natural Order and it could have merit at the end of the day especially since you can fetch Progenitus to race or Runic Thar against combo decks.
Hypothetical Wish Board
1 Parasitic Strix
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Acidic Slime
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
4 Force of Will
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Dismember
1 Pithing Needle
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Went 3-1 at my local with the original list. Still trying to get a feel for the deck so I can make changes. Lost a close match to RUG Delver 2-1, beat enchantress 2-0, then beat 2 storm decks 2-1. List feels really strong!
I am loving the power of BUG value creatures with an over the top win condition, either opposition or BUG aluren.... just not sure which is better currently.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
try to squeeze in a 4th cradle or check out some of the variants i tried out. they weren't so bad! also i liked the natural order in the sb.
-rob
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