What benefit does the 4th cradle provide? I only really wanted a cradle as my 3rd or 4th land.Originally Posted by mistercakes
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
I always felt like I wanted a cradle. It's broke with garruk, GSZ, and Oracle. It also allows you to play two to GSZ for behemoth.
-rob
I think the decks mana requirements are too varied for the fourth cradle. Green for mana forks, black for discard, and blue for opposition, visionary and shardless. I just never wanted the cradle early.
When I am behind I felt like I needed more blue mana to cycle creatures as opposed to mass green mana.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
If you check out my list though, I never cut lands for the 4th cradle.
Anyway, it's just a suggestion to test it.
-rob
You cut 3 shardless for 1 symbiote, 1 winter orb and 1 cradle, I agree that the shardless agent is the worst card in the list as I have not been happy with the Shardless/GSZ interaction but I will say I liked the shardless/sideboard tech interaction as he filtered through lands to business.
I'm currently looking at -3 shardless, +2 wirewood symbiotes(to increase the draw/ramp engine and deathrite activations) I don't know what the last slot is for yet but I am currently going with my previous thought of the Leovold as he gives us mainboard interaction against a lot of decks.
Other options:
Reclamation sage
Regal force
Wire wood symbiote #4
Land #20
I like your list from a few pages ago, but I think you get a little off message with your changes.
Today I cut the noble hierarchs for 2 wirewood 1 bayou and the 4th deathrite.
With the 3 shardless slots I am experimenting with Imperious Perfect for that mid range option that also helps with our late game options.
Last edited by lavafrogg; 11-13-2016 at 11:03 PM.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Any thoughts on Glissa, the Traitor? She's a great blocker, and can recur artifacts. Replace some of the cantrip creatures with Baleful Strix and you've got a recurring airborne deathtouch draw engine. And since a lot of the SB hate are artifacts, being able to get them back after removal is a plus.
While Glissa herself is a strong card, she does not develop our board in a constructive manner. With an Opposition in play, any one of our creatures can hold down a creature from our opponent without the need for combat. We also do not have removal besides 3 Abrupt Decay, which are overtaxed anyways.
The "perfect world scenario" involves having a Glissa and a Baleful Strix in play, while your opponent repeatedly attacks with a single creature allowing you to draw cards.... this seems highly unlikely.
That being said if we get away from Green Sun's Zenith and the elf theme than Baleful Strix will be an auto include, but currently the green creature + Gaea's Cradle plan is extremely strong and is worth further exploring before we shelve it completely.
Edit: I will agree that Glissa is a great option to wall Eldrazi that is GSZ-able if you are having trouble with that matchup.
Last edited by lavafrogg; 11-15-2016 at 02:38 PM.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Another 3-1 tonight.
Beating RUG Delver 2-0
Manaless Dredge 2-1
Nic Fit 2-0
And losing 0-2 to Dragon Stompy, which is a terrible matchup.
I didn't miss the Noble Heirarchs and Prefect won a few games where Shardless would have been a cascade and a prayer.
Against RUG I brought in removal and discard to remove their creatures. After that I developed my mana base and just chipped them down. Gitaxian probe + Cabal Therapy is huge.
I had too many ways to win against Rhino Fit and never felt that I cared abbout anything they did.
Against manaless I had deathrite into ooze to steal 2 games.
Bumping the Deathrites to 4 was the right call as that card is a house.
I don't think Dragon Stimpy is a winnable matchup as they have main deck red sweepers in addition to everything else they do. I mean... I could add more basics and main deck the Reclaimation Shaman, but after that I am lost.
Current list:
Main
3 Bayou
2 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
3 Gaea’s Cradle
3 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Coiling Oracle
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
3 Wirewood Symbiote
3 Imperious Prefect----slot in question
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Opposition
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Green Sun’s Zentih
So far I have just been not 100% happy with the last 3 cards in the list. Prefect and Shardless Agent have both just been okay. I am looking through gatherer to find something that really fits into the rest of the deck.
Right now I am looking at Nissa, Vastwood Seer... why does she say basic forest....
Would anyone have a problem with just running trips reclamation sage? I feel like every deck has targets, he taps for opposition, he is an elf, and he gets pumped by craterhoof/garruk!
Last edited by lavafrogg; 11-19-2016 at 01:12 AM.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Hey guys
one question
Nissa, Vital Force coulb be better than Garruk in this deck?
Garruk is most likely the most inpressive card in the deck. The untap ability is amazing either to just cast more cantrip guys, untapping arbors for opposition triggers or holy shit untapping gaeas cradle. The fact that he suspends 1 to overrun is super relevant when you need to win "fast" and the 3/3's are always relevant.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Agreed with all the garruk comments. Should also find 1 spot for a Nissa, if only to improve the miracle matchup more.
-rob
thanks for the rep guys
Main
2 Bayou
2 Dryad Arbor
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Forest
4 Gaea’s Cradle
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Coiling Oracle
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
3 Wirewood Symbiote
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Nissa, Vital Force
2 Winter Orb
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Opposition
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Green Sun’s Zentih
I would likely run something like this as a current list. I know it's weaker to combo game 1, but I prefer to have a stronger matchups vs fair decks game 1. (could easily make a case for the 4th abrupt decay)
SB would include:
1 leovold, emissary of trest
1 abrupt decay
2 surgical extraction
2 faerie macabre
3 thoughtseize
2 thragtusk
1 nissa, vital force
1 reclamation sage
2 lost legacy
-rob
After a few bad outings I am super torn on this deck currently. I find that the Opposition wins are few and far between and the BG core being the reason for most of the wins.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Here is the list I've been running on Cockatrice with a lot of success:
Creatures: 28
3x Deathrite Shaman
4x Noble Hierarch
3x Baleful Strix
4x Coiling Oracle
3x Elvish Visionary
3x Shardless Agent
3x Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1x Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1x Deranged Hermit
1x Craterhoof Behemoth
2x Wirewood Symbiote
Spells: 9
2x Cabal Therapy
4x Green Sun’s Zenith
3x Abrupt Decay
Enchantments: 3
3x Opposition
Lands: 20
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Bayou
1x Underground Sea
3x Tropical Island
1x Forest
2x Dryad Arbor
3x Gaea’s Cradle
Sideboard: 15
4x Thorn of Amethyst
2x Thoughtseize
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Marsh Casualties
1x Reclamation sage
2x Winter Orb
1x Null Rod
1x Sylvan Library
1x Scavenging ooze
I had 2 copies of Garruk originally but I dropped them for the Meren and the Deranged Hermit. I'm not in love with either card here, but I just didn't feel like the planeswalker was doing enough, especially the turn you played him. I really wanted some midrange green sun targets that I can play to an empty board to gain some real board presense. Even though Hermit has won pretty much every game he hits the board in, both creatures represent slots I'm still not sure what to do with. Leovold is king in this deck, he's the reason the deck is viable IMO so I run 3 main. Blood moon decks are a problem, just gotta be sure to fetch up that forest quick and green sun for rec sage. Spell combo decks are a problem, board in all the Thorns and discard and pray. The rest of the matchups I'm lovin. We absolutely shrek delver and midrange decks. My sideboard is all pretty much a work in progress. I'm pretty sure it's correct to do the 4 thorns, everything else is still up in the air.
how has your miracles matchups been? i felt like i always needed the planeswalkers for this matchup. (i know opposition and winter orb are both crazy good, but planeswalkers added that little extra pressure for me.)
-rob
Miracles has been tough for me.
might be able to take another stab at this deck with the new cards. will wait until the set is fully spoiled, but at least the new cantrip elf can see some play. it's possible it might not need it as our weak matchups tend to be combo anyway.
-rob
hey, i've been toying around with my pet deck again.
I had some trouble with all those black cards i've been running lately and the fact Deathrite shaman doesn't have as many fetch in the yard as we'd like and noble doesn't produce black mana...
Leovold is golden : it makes us leovold proof with opposition, wins against most U decks and is OP against wastelands and all those hatefull stuff !
So the idea was to cut the therapy but to keep a decent amount of early disruption.
Fow is the one letting us play without interfering with the deck's speed
In my metagame, there is not that much miracle so i dropped the garruck account to 2 then 0 (since i sided them out everygame).
the 2 brainstorm are there for testing.
// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)
// NAME : gub oppo U
// CREATOR : bedjy (magic-ville.com)
// FORMAT : Legacy
1 [UNH] Forest
1 [R] Underground Sea
2 [R] Bayou
2 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
3 [US] Gaea's Cradle
3 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
3 [R] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
1 [AVR] Craterhoof Behemoth
2 [] Leovold, Emissary of Trest
2 [SC] Wirewood Symbiote
3 [] Baleful Strix
3 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman
3 [] Elvish Visionary
3 [] Shardless Agent
4 [] Coiling Oracle
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
3 [7E] Opposition
2 [] Brainstorm
3 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
SB: 2 [] Kiora, Master of the Depths
SB: 3 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 [] Scavenging Ooze
SB: 1 [WL] Null Rod
SB: 3 [] Fatal Push
SB: 1 [] Reclamation Sage
SB: 2 [ZEN] Marsh Casualties
SB: 2 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
The power of the Opposition list lied in the elf shell that it was based on. Running quad Gaea's Cradles and the Garruk's allowed you to out pace most decks on mana development and Garruk was a house in all of the fair matchups, as well as a Suspend 1- Overrun.
In my opinion you took out every reason to actually play the deck and turned it into a worse Shardless BUG list. With GSZ, I don't think you need to do much to incorporate Leovold, especially when you can GSZ for large amounts very early in the game.
To add Leo-
Creatures (18)
4 Coiling Oracle
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
3 Wirewood Symbiote
Planeswalkers (3)
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
Spells (19)
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Green Sun's Zentih
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Opposition
Lands (20)
1 Forest
1 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
2 Dryad Arbor
3 Gaea's Cradle
3 Tropical Island
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
Also, if the opponent has a Leovold Opposition is pretty awkward
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
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