With a chalice of the void with 1 counter on it in play on your side, your opponent can try to cast 1cc spells, hoping that I forget the trigger and that it still resolves. But can I deliberately choose to forget this trigger, when my opponent casts a 1cc spell?
I had a rare situation, where this came up. My opponent attempted to cast 1cc spells through my chalice on 1, hoping I would forget the trigger. Once he had Monastery Mentor online though, he didn't care anymore if they resolved or not, because he got a token with each casted (and countered) spell. Then he cast Swords to plowshares, targetting his own token, with the intention of having Mentor trigger into another token, but having chalice counter the swords so he'd also keep the targeted token. Can I opt to deliberately forget that my opponents swords gets countered by my chalice, so he'd still loose the targeted token?
No, you cannot. This is cheating.Originally Posted by Ingo
Some Fear the Dead
You can't forget your own triggers. If you do it deliberately, it's Cheating.
“It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.”
-David DeLaney
How can the trigger even be forgotten if your opponent deliberately plays StoP to be countered by Chalice? Surely he would remind you of the trigger...
Already thought so, thanks for the info guys!
Follow up question... at what point is Ingo required to tell their opponent about the trigger? After he puts the Mentor trigger (and any other triggered abilities he controls, such as the various Prowess triggers from his Monks) on the stack? When the opponent attempts to resolve the Swords and gain life? After someone shouts "JUDGE!" (hopefully not here)? Does it vary depending on the REL?
The Missed Trigger section of the IPG is what you're looking for: http://blogs.magicjudges.org/rules/ipg2-1/
The second category of triggers what Chalice falls under.
A triggered ability that causes a change in the visible game state (including life totals) or requires a choice upon resolution: The controller must take the appropriate physical action or acknowledge the specific trigger before taking any game actions (such as casting a sorcery spell or explicitly taking an action in the next step or phase) that can be taken only after the triggered ability should have resolved.
You must demonstrate awareness of the trigger before you do anything that could only happen after the trigger resolved, and you must remind your opponent of the trigger when they begin to do something that could (or couldn't) only happen after the trigger.
“It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.”
-David DeLaney
I'm curious how a high level judge would talk about this situation in gritty detail.
What if a similar situation happened tomorrow, and Ingo honestly forgot about the Swords trigger, and his opponent didn't remind him? Would a judge say, "Well, he's clearly remembered every other trigger, so we think there's a pattern here showing that he actually did remember this one."
What if Ingo remembered to counter 4 of his opponent's Lightning Bolts, and 3 of his Chain Lightnings, but then forgot the 4th Chain? Would that pattern suddenly not matter any more?
I'm not sure if current rules are capable of dealing with that kind of Devil's Advocate situation, but I am curious.
Whenever a player misses a detrimental trigger, the judge taking the call will assess whether it was in fact forgotten or "forgotten". This is also why detrimental triggers carry an upgrading Warning.
You cannot have a rule that determines player intent, that can only be determined by assessing the player and the individual situation.
“It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.”
-David DeLaney
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