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Thread: Thalia Stompy

  1. #21

    Re: Thalia Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by MD.Ghost View Post
    Displacer should be much better than Smasher. You gain a lot of Utility, lower cc and can abuse it with your own EtB Creatures (and protect them).
    The main matchup for Reality smasher is against DNT, I board it out against almost all other matchups. DNT is a big part of the meta (and growing). When I land a reality smasher against them it is pretty much game over. Against ports and wastelands reality smasher seems better than Displacer. I am curious why you think Displacer is better. I find Displacer below average in the delver, miracles and DNT matchups. That being said, Smasher is a niche card in the deck, mainly to close out against DNT and sometimes the other midrange fair decks.

  2. #22

    Re: Thalia Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rmosto View Post
    I like the decklist. My only comment is that suppression field is very risky as your turn one explosive play because it can get countered or dazed easily and then you are in trouble. I play tested it a lot with a similar idea of using lotus petals or moxen for acceleration. I find it a terrible topdeck later on as well. In my experience, it is best to avoid a turn one 1W play unless you use Cavern to power out a thalia. But even in this case I like to have Karakas ready to bounce it back to my hand in response to a removal spell. The problem with suppression field is that it gets MUCH worse after turn 2 while Thalia only gets a little worse. I like having Chalice, Revoker and Thorn as your turn one disruption. These two drop spells all cost 2 and can be cast easily in sequential turns after the opponent loses card advantage casting FOW or tempo with Daze.

    My thoughts with Sanctum Prelate is that he is not going to be the ideal turn 2 lock piece that we are envisioning. I think he will however be very strong in the later stages of the game when we have traded resources with our opponent, a few thalias/revokers/THS killed and it is clear which types of cards the opponent needs to pull ahead. That is when you can cast the Sanctum Prelate uncounterable to seal the deal.
    Agreed abaout the Prelate.

    Any of your turn 1 plays can be forced unless it is a pretty specific creature + cavern + mox/accel play, so I don't really see the argument there. T1 Suppression Field can be an even bigger beating than Chalice in certain matchups - your opponent's fetches are completely horrible and it helps keep you safe from Wasteland (if we cut the Crucibles). Yeah it can be a bad topdeck but it can come down mid-game and still slow down top activations, elves, prevent D&T from necessary equips or porting, etc.

    Glad you started this thread, I'm crossing my fingers that my pre-orders are honored and I get the chance to try this deck out

  3. #23

    Re: Thalia Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by square_two View Post
    Agreed abaout the Prelate.

    Any of your turn 1 plays can be forced unless it is a pretty specific creature + cavern + mox/accel play, so I don't really see the argument there. T1 Suppression Field can be an even bigger beating than Chalice in certain matchups - your opponent's fetches are completely horrible and it helps keep you safe from Wasteland (if we cut the Crucibles). Yeah it can be a bad topdeck but it can come down mid-game and still slow down top activations, elves, prevent D&T from necessary equips or porting, etc.

    Glad you started this thread, I'm crossing my fingers that my pre-orders are honored and I get the chance to try this deck out
    Thanks for the feedback! Let me try again with my argument since I did a bad job explaining what I meant. First, let me say that I totally agree. T1 or T2 suppression field is back breaking for many decks. That being said, the two drops (2 not 1W) like chalice, revoker and thorn are superior to the 1W in that you don't need to go out of your way and lose tempo or card advantage to try and resolve it. If you go for it and it fails, you fall behind significantly. But the Chalice, Revoker, Thorn plan is right on curve with your sol lands so there is less risk albeit less reward. Now the niche case is the turn 1 thalia with a cavern and that is worth the card disadvantage for a huge swing in tempo, especially if you are on the play.

    In all, I agree. Stoping activated abilities is amazing in legacy. That is why I am so high on revoker and consider it the CORE of the deck along with thalia and chalice. Stopping a Vial activations or shutting down equipment, Planeswalkers, deathrites ect the list does on.

    Against DNT, I am not that afraid of port and wasteland because we should be running plenty of plains, (At least 6 in my opinion). Furthermore, with so many sol lands and a high land count, their mana denial stragegy almost never works against this deck. At any moment you can jam a stoneforge and a jitte to close the game.

  4. #24
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    Re: Thalia Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rmosto View Post
    The main matchup for Reality smasher is against DNT, I board it out against almost all other matchups. DNT is a big part of the meta (and growing). When I land a reality smasher against them it is pretty much game over. Against ports and wastelands reality smasher seems better than Displacer. I am curious why you think Displacer is better. I find Displacer below average in the delver, miracles and DNT matchups. That being said, Smasher is a niche card in the deck, mainly to close out against DNT and sometimes the other midrange fair decks.
    A card that is only for one deck (ok DtB) at your maindeck seems not so good...DnT aims at your mana which means it will prevent you from casting Smasher. Displacer is very good vs DnT (sure it is more a skilltest than a hasty-trample-beater) and many other decks. It also needs less mana, which means Manadenial isn't so strong against it - Bonus: You can use your own Manadenial more often. Smasher was the first card i cut down the last weeks i brewed with heavy White Eldrazi Lists including both Thalias and Wastelands (like this deck, but without the new white toys)
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  5. #25

    Re: Thalia Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rmosto View Post
    Thanks for the feedback! Let me try again with my argument since I did a bad job explaining what I meant. First, let me say that I totally agree. T1 or T2 suppression field is back breaking for many decks. That being said, the two drops (2 not 1W) like chalice, revoker and thorn are superior to the 1W in that you don't need to go out of your way and lose tempo or card advantage to try and resolve it. If you go for it and it fails, you fall behind significantly. But the Chalice, Revoker, Thorn plan is right on curve with your sol lands so there is less risk albeit less reward. Now the niche case is the turn 1 thalia with a cavern and that is worth the card disadvantage for a huge swing in tempo, especially if you are on the play.

    In all, I agree. Stoping activated abilities is amazing in legacy. That is why I am so high on revoker and consider it the CORE of the deck along with thalia and chalice. Stopping a Vial activations or shutting down equipment, Planeswalkers, deathrites ect the list does on.

    Against DNT, I am not that afraid of port and wasteland because we should be running plenty of plains, (At least 6 in my opinion). Furthermore, with so many sol lands and a high land count, their mana denial stragegy almost never works against this deck. At any moment you can jam a stoneforge and a jitte to close the game.
    Thanks for the clarification, that does make more sense. I'm still not sure how you necessarily lose card advantage if you go Plains->Mox->Field and it is countered versus Ancient Tomb->Chalice being countered, or Plains->Mox->Chalice. You still have the additional mana to use following turns. Playing with Petals, sure, but I think I'd rather have Mox Diamonds as acceleration (doubly/triply so with Crucible). But totally right that a cost of 2 is waaay easier to get into play turn 1 versus 1W.

    Also probably worth it, if this deck is as strong as it looks on paper, to really examine the meta and which matchups you think S Field would really help. Fetchlands are the biggest killer, since Revoker can't name lands. It could be uneccessary hate new consideringThalia/Chalice/Prelate/Revoker tho.

  6. #26

    Re: Thalia Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by MD.Ghost View Post
    A card that is only for one deck (ok DtB) at your maindeck seems not so good...DnT aims at your mana which means it will prevent you from casting Smasher. Displacer is very good vs DnT (sure it is more a skilltest than a hasty-trample-beater) and many other decks. It also needs less mana, which means Manadenial isn't so strong against it - Bonus: You can use your own Manadenial more often. Smasher was the first card i cut down the last weeks i brewed with heavy White Eldrazi Lists including both Thalias and Wastelands (like this deck, but without the new white toys)
    I'm not sure what are you getting at saying displacer is more of a skilltest. I suppose that is supposed to be some kind of dig. I am not saying displacer is a bad card. Bottom line, in my play testing, Smasher outperformed Displacer. Especially against death and taxes. Certainly against any lightning bolt deck. Against Miracles, you need a creature that has an impact the turn it is cast. All displacer is going to do is bail you out when you face a bunch of angel tokens. Against Grixis Delver and Bug Delver it is much more vulnerable. It dies to all of their removal. Against DNT Smasher wins the equipment jitte battle and survives most combat scenarios that displacer will lose. I am not trying to make this personal, I am genuinely curious in which scenarios displacer shined. Please elaborate.

  7. #27
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    Re: Thalia Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rmosto View Post
    I'm not sure what are you getting at saying displacer is more of a skilltest. I suppose that is supposed to be some kind of dig. I am not saying displacer is a bad card. Bottom line, in my play testing, Smasher outperformed Displacer. Especially against death and taxes. Certainly against any lightning bolt deck. Against Miracles, you need a creature that has an impact the turn it is cast. All displacer is going to do is bail you out when you face a bunch of angel tokens. Against Grixis Delver and Bug Delver it is much more vulnerable. It dies to all of their removal. Against DNT Smasher wins the equipment jitte battle and survives most combat scenarios that displacer will lose. I am not trying to make this personal, I am genuinely curious in which scenarios displacer shined. Please elaborate.
    From my experience, Displacer is an excellent card vs D&T, aka "kill it on sight". It manhandles their equipment and flyers with ease.

    But I don't see any reason not to run both Smasher and Displacer.

  8. #28

    Re: Thalia Stompy

    I have been testing a quite similar deck for some time now just struggling with GBx decks in generel and Smasher is simply a little bit too expensive without Eye. Hence just 3 exemplars. With the new cards from Conspiracy new options emerge I haven't explored yet. Maybe it is time to cut Smashers completely for a more permission centric approach.

    Lands (25 Karten)
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Eldrazi Temple
    2 City of Traitors
    2 Karakas
    5 Plains
    4 Wasteland

    Creatures (22 Karten)
    3 Stoneforge
    3 Thalia 1.0
    3 Thalia 2.0
    2 Phyrexian Revoker
    4 Eldrazi Displacer
    3 Reality Smasher
    4 Thought-Knot Seer

    Other Spells (13 Karten)
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Mox Diamond
    2 Valorous Stance
    1 Batterskull
    1 Jitte
    1 Crucible of Worlds

    Sideboard (15 Karten)
    1 Thorn of Amethyst
    2 Seal of Cleansing
    2 Path to Exile
    2 Rest in Peace
    2 Contaiment Priest
    1 Elspeth 1.0
    2 Austere Command
    2 Worship
    1 Crucible of Worlds

  9. #29
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    Re: Thalia Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    From my experience, Displacer is an excellent card vs D&T, aka "kill it on sight". It manhandles their equipment and flyers with ease.

    But I don't see any reason not to run both Smasher and Displacer.
    The only time I've played against Displacer was in a D&T mirror match and Displacer wrecked me. Mom doesn't do anything about it, and it was hard for me to apply pressure because he'd keep blinking my best threat each time (which, like you mention, is often an equipped creature, or flyer, or both!).

    Having Eldrazi Temple in the deck makes activating the blink cheaper, too. Only effectively costs two lands with Temple.

    As for D&T playing against colorless Eldrazi, Reality Smasher is also hard for D&T to deal with but now with two Thalias combining for 5 first strike power it's easier for D&T to block it and kill it.

  10. #30

    Re: Thalia Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by RobNC View Post
    The only time I've played against Displacer was in a D&T mirror match and Displacer wrecked me. Mom doesn't do anything about it, and it was hard for me to apply pressure because he'd keep blinking my best threat each time (which, like you mention, is often an equipped creature, or flyer, or both!).

    Having Eldrazi Temple in the deck makes activating the blink cheaper, too. Only effectively costs two lands with Temple.

    As for D&T playing against colorless Eldrazi, Reality Smasher is also hard for D&T to deal with but now with two Thalias combining for 5 first strike power it's easier for D&T to block it and kill it.
    Barook and Rob, thanks for the feedback. Time to test displacer again.

  11. #31
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    Re: Thalia Stompy

    I haven't seen it mentioned yet. Is there any reason for this deck to not run some amount of Lodestone Golems?
    Belcher, RUG Delver, Death & Taxes, Colorless Eldrazi, Goblins

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    Fuck you ^_^

  12. #32

    Re: Thalia Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterBlaster View Post
    I haven't seen it mentioned yet. Is there any reason for this deck to not run some amount of Lodestone Golems?
    I have actually eschewed the Smashers entirely in favor of them. I have been having good success on MODO with this list: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/tourname...6-08-12#online

    Creatures: 22
    2 SFM
    2 Revoker
    3 Thalia, GoT
    3 Displacer
    4 Thalia, HC
    4 Thought-Knot
    4 Lodestone

    Spells: 12
    4 Chalice
    2 Warping Wail
    1 Dismember
    1 Jitte
    1 Batterskull
    3 Mox Diamond

    Lands: 26
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 Eldrazi Temple
    4 Caves of Koilos
    2 Cavern of Souls
    3 Plains
    2 Karakas
    4 Wasteland

    SB: 15
    2 Needle
    3 STP
    2 Disenchant
    2 Containment Priest
    3 RIP
    2 Thorn
    1 Warping Wail

    EDIT: It looks like someone took 74/75 of my list and 5-0'ed another league https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/460592#online Glad to see it isn't just me! :)

  13. #33

    Re: Thalia Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by DisgruntledElk View Post
    I have actually eschewed the Smashers entirely in favor of them. I have been having good success on MODO with this list: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/tourname...6-08-12#online

    Creatures: 22
    2 SFM
    2 Revoker
    3 Thalia, GoT
    3 Displacer
    4 Thalia, HC
    4 Thought-Knot
    4 Lodestone

    Spells: 12
    4 Chalice
    2 Warping Wail
    1 Dismember
    1 Jitte
    1 Batterskull
    3 Mox Diamond

    Lands: 26
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 Eldrazi Temple
    4 Caves of Koilos
    2 Cavern of Souls
    3 Plains
    2 Karakas
    4 Wasteland

    SB: 15
    2 Needle
    3 STP
    2 Disenchant
    2 Containment Priest
    3 RIP
    2 Thorn
    1 Warping Wail

    EDIT: It looks like someone took 74/75 of my list and 5-0'ed another league https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/460592#online Glad to see it isn't just me! :)
    I like lodestone golem a lot as well. It is a great choice. I totally agree on swapping out smasher for golem as a good option.

  14. #34
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    Re: Thalia Stompy

    Totally forgot about Golem! Yeah in this deck Lodestone sounds better than smasher and metamorph.

    My question is whether SFM is worth playing vs any of the 4 following cards (2 SFM 1 Batterskull 1 Jitte?)

    For example this list:

    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4 Thought-Knot Seer
    4 Sanctum Prelate
    4 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
    4 Lodestone Golem
    3 Eldrazi Displacer
    3 Phyrexian Revoker

    4 Mox Diamond
    4 Chalice of the Void

    5 Plains
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Eldrazi Temple
    4 Wasteland
    3 City of Traitors
    2 Karakas

    ----
    Chalice into Thalia, into Lodestone, into Prelate, into Thoughtknot just sounds . . . . like I never want to play against this.

    Edit: Also can we come up with a more fun name for this deck - Eldrazi & Taxes and Thalia Stompy just sound so derivative lol

  15. #35

    Re: Thalia Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    Totally forgot about Golem! Yeah in this deck Lodestone sounds better than smasher and metamorph.

    My question is whether SFM is worth playing vs any of the 4 following cards (2 SFM 1 Batterskull 1 Jitte?)

    For example this list:

    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4 Thought-Knot Seer
    4 Sanctum Prelate
    4 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
    4 Lodestone Golem
    3 Eldrazi Displacer
    3 Phyrexian Revoker

    4 Mox Diamond
    4 Chalice of the Void

    5 Plains
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Eldrazi Temple
    4 Wasteland
    3 City of Traitors
    2 Karakas

    ----
    Chalice into Thalia, into Lodestone, into Prelate, into Thoughtknot just sounds . . . . like I never want to play against this.

    Edit: Also can we come up with a more fun name for this deck - Eldrazi & Taxes and Thalia Stompy just sound so derivative lol

    Yea I'm all for finding a better name. For me this deck is a white stompy chalice thalia deck. The main cards are revoker, thalia and chalice. The play style is more towards prison than aggro. Would you agree with this? What name would fit that style?

  16. #36
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    Re: Thalia Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rmosto View Post
    Yea I'm all for finding a better name. For me this deck is a white stompy chalice thalia deck. The main cards are revoker, thalia and chalice. The play style is more towards prison than aggro. Would you agree with this? What name would fit that style?
    Hmm, I'm not great at names - but for the prison theme, maybe something like "The Panopticon"? If we replace our plains with snow-covered plains we can call ourselves "The Gulag" .

  17. #37

    Re: Thalia Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    Hmm, I'm not great at names - but for the prison theme, maybe something like "The Panopticon"? If we replace our plains with snow-covered plains we can call ourselves "The Gulag" .
    I'm going to have to shoot down the gulag name..my family was in soviet gulags in the 30s so that hits close to home. Any other ideas?

  18. #38

    Re: Thalia Stompy

    Are we foregoing the Crucibles now? Feel like that is a separate line of attack that will sometimes win games on its own. Suppose it's just a consistency thing though, and #1 thing with stompy/prison decks is upping the consistency.

    Maybe just "Taxes" as a name? Between old thalia, new thalia tapping, lodestone...although Chalice, Prelate, Thought-Knot make me think more of a "Verboten" name. ("Prohibited" auf deutsch)

  19. #39
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    Re: Thalia Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rmosto View Post
    I'm going to have to shoot down the gulag name..my family was in soviet gulags in the 30s so that hits close to home. Any other ideas?
    Ah, i'm so sorry :(.

  20. #40
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    Re: Thalia Stompy

    Eldrazi and Taxes or White Eldrazi are both fine names for this deck and one of the two is likely to be adopted. One of those names is already used for the similar Modern variant. No need to come up with some joke name that nobody will actually use.

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