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Thread: Thalia Stompy

  1. #41
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    Re: Thalia Stompy

    The Vintage deck that played to many of the same styles and strengths as this is called White Eldrazi. Personally though, if your looking at a deck that might have in some builds only 7 Eldrazi, well, that's not really a reason to name your deck after them.

    I personally like the idea of "Araldite" but I do not know how catchy or effective that would be. PM me when you have a name in mind and I will rename the thread.
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  2. #42
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    Re: Thalia Stompy

    Thaldrazi?

    There are multiple ways this is being approached, so the name could depend on the version. There's White Eldrazi, which is essentially Eldrazi plus 6 or 8 Thalias. Then there's more of a Mox Diamond/Crucible of Worlds version that could lean heavy on land destruction, too, like the vintage powerless version. Then there are the all-in taxes versions, which are more tax heavy white decks with Eldrazi thrown in (plus Lodestone Golem, or the new Sanctum Prelate) without the tricks that D&T has.

  3. #43
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    Re: Thalia Stompy

    I personally like the idea of a couple of Crucible of Worlds. Obvious good interaction with Mox Diamond, Wasteland, and City of Traitors. Also this deck itself is susceptible to Wasteland. But I haven't sleeved and played a version of this deck myself.

    As for a name, the best I got is Superjail.
    Belcher, RUG Delver, Death & Taxes, Colorless Eldrazi, Goblins

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  4. #44
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    Re: Thalia Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by RobNC View Post
    Thaldrazi?

    There are multiple ways this is being approached, so the name could depend on the version. There's White Eldrazi, which is essentially Eldrazi plus 6 or 8 Thalias. Then there's more of a Mox Diamond/Crucible of Worlds version that could lean heavy on land destruction, too, like the vintage powerless version. Then there are the all-in taxes versions, which are more tax heavy white decks with Eldrazi thrown in (plus Lodestone Golem, or the new Sanctum Prelate) without the tricks that D&T has.
    I think the rule of thumb that seperates this deck from white eldrazi (as seen in Eldrazi thread) is a maximum of 8 eldrazi (4 Thought Knot and 2-4 Smasher AND/OR 2-4 Displacer).

    The decks core seems to be:

    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Eldrazi Temple
    2-4 City of Traitors
    2-3 Karakas
    4-6 Plains
    4 Wasteland

    0-6 SFM Package (0-4 SFM itself)
    3-4 Thalia 1.0
    3-4 Thalia 2.0
    2-4 Phyrexian Revoker
    4 Thought-Knot Seer
    2-4 Smasher/Displacer
    0-4 Lodestone/Metamorph
    2-4 Sanctum Prelate

    4 Chalice of the Void
    3-4 Mox Diamond
    0-3 Removal (Warping Wail/Dismember)
    0-3 Crucible of Worlds

    Unless new cards are revealed I don't think we are going to be arguing about adding other cards to the above formula, and instead will be looking at the breakdown of the numbers instead (I.E. run SFM? Crucible? Etc. . . )

  5. #45

    Re: Thalia Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    I think the rule of thumb that seperates this deck from white eldrazi (as seen in Eldrazi thread) is a maximum of 8 eldrazi (4 Thought Knot and 2-4 Smasher AND/OR 2-4 Displacer).

    The decks core seems to be:

    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Eldrazi Temple
    2-4 City of Traitors
    2-3 Karakas
    4-6 Plains
    4 Wasteland

    0-5 SFM Package (0-3 SFM itself)
    3-4 Thalia 1.0
    3-4 Thalia 2.0
    2-4 Phyrexian Revoker
    4 Thought-Knot Seer
    2-4 Smasher/Displacer
    0-4 Lodestone/Metamorph
    2-4 Sanctum Prelate

    4 Chalice of the Void
    3-4 Mox Diamond
    0-3 Removal (Warping Wail/Dismember)
    0-3 Crucible of Worlds

    Unless new cards are revealed I don't think we are going to be arguing about adding other cards to the above formula, and instead will be looking at the breakdown of the numbers instead (I.E. run SFM? Crucible? Etc. . . )
    This seems pretty spot on. My preference is to max out the sfm at 4 and keep the plains count as high as possible. This makes it hard to run more than 2 wastelands however.

  6. #46
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    Re: Thalia Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rmosto View Post
    This seems pretty spot on. My preference is to max out the sfm at 4 and keep the plains count as high as possible. This makes it hard to run more than 2 wastelands however.
    I made the slight adjustment to the SFM package count.

    My preference is to eschew the SFM's for more Prelates/Lodestones etc.

  7. #47

    Re: Thalia Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterBlaster View Post
    I personally like the idea of a couple of Crucible of Worlds. Obvious good interaction with Mox Diamond, Wasteland, and City of Traitors. Also this deck itself is susceptible to Wasteland. But I haven't sleeved and played a version of this deck myself.

    As for a name, the best I got is Superjail.
    Yeah, I can't help but feel that it is going to be the Crucibles that are the most help in fighting the decks not particularly affected by Chalice/Thalia/Prelate. They also work well with Lodestone Golem.

    Edit: Also, Umezawa's Jitte is probably worthy at least as a 1-of even without SFM. I mean, if you are going to run 8 powerful first strike creatures, Jitte just looks bonkers. I've been on the receiving end of both Thalias and a Jitte on the opponent's board and good lord that is an awful experience.

  8. #48

    Re: Thalia Stompy

    I've been working on a Mono white prison deck the past couple weeks. did fairly well in the minimal amount of testing I've been able to do. I'll get a list posted when I get home in a couple hours

  9. #49

    Re: Thalia Stompy

    I like Panopticon as a name. It's a white western world plan for locking people in a prison. Fits.
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  10. #50
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    Re: Thalia Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by square_two View Post
    Edit: Also, Umezawa's Jitte is probably worthy at least as a 1-of even without SFM. I mean, if you are going to run 8 powerful first strike creatures, Jitte just looks bonkers. I've been on the receiving end of both Thalias and a Jitte on the opponent's board and good lord that is an awful experience.
    I think if you're not running SFM, Jitte could take (see my "Core" list for example) some of the "removal" slots?

  11. #51

    Re: Thalia Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    I think if you're not running SFM, Jitte could take (see my "Core" list for example) some of the "removal" slots?
    Agreed. I think that running Lodestone really means that Warping Wail and Dismember are quite a bit worse.

    2 Phyrexian Revoker
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
    3 Eldrazi Displacer
    4 Sanctum Prelate
    3 Lodestone Golem
    4 Thought-Knot Seer

    4 Mox Diamond
    4 Chalice of the Void
    2 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Umezawa's Jitte

    5 Plains
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 Eldrazi Temple
    4 Wasteland
    3 City of Traitors
    2 Karakas

    Personally I love the idea of Crucible and so I'll freely admit that bias. Probably doable to cut the Crucibles and add 2 SFM and then cut something else for a Batterskull, making the deck much better against fair creature decks and Eldrazi (although Crucibles significantly help Eldrazi too). New Thalia to 3, perhaps? Guessing our gameplan is almost strictly set to run 4 Prelate.

    I do like the idea of the maindeck capable of just destroying combo + blue decks, and siding in particular stuff for any fair/grindy decks where SFM and equipment is better. We will need very little sideboard material for combo (I believe normal Edlrazi is still running Thorns of Amethyst for example, in the side)

    This list has same number of mana sources as romariovidal's recent 5-0 White Eldrazi list. He is running same numbers of TKS/Displacer, and has 3 more sources of colorless mana (due to Caves of Koilos) although between 18 and 21 this probably matters little. He also has 11 sources of "turn 1 2 mana" same as this list. Just referring to him since I know he's a good player with experience playing the deck (really enjoyable stream too if he's still doing that, I enjoy tuning in). He opted for 2 SFM and Jitte+Batterskull, and 2 Warping Wail, 1 Dismember (which I believe is the configuration that regular Eldrazi is leaning towards).

  12. #52
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    Re: Thalia Stompy

    My first brew would look like this:


    4 Thought-Knot Seer
    4 Eldrazi Displacer
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
    3 Sanctum Prelate
    2 Recruiter of the Guard
    1 Phyrexian Revoker
    1 Flickerwisp
    1 Containment Priest

    2 Crucible
    2 Jitte
    4 Mox Diamond
    4 Chalice of the Void

    5 Plains
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Eldrazi Temple
    4 Wasteland
    2 Karakas
    2 City of Traitors

    It is a mix of White Eldrazi and DnT Elements. My experience with Eldrazi was, that Manadenial can really hurt (which is the reason i dislike Smasher without Eye of Ugin/more City) and that you don't want to run your own Wastelands or must be very carefully with them. The deck above only needs 3 (4 with TKS) Mana and work well, which can also mean only 1-2 Lands with Mox. In this case, Wasteland + Crucible works well better and both will profit if you run Thalia(s) etc. Mox itself is also way better with Crucible.

    The build above have a lot of flexslots:
    1 Crucible (in this case i would play 1 Main + 1 Side)
    1 Jitte (if you include SfM 1 Jitte is enough)
    2 Recruiter of the Guard
    1 Phyrexian Revoker
    1 Flickerwisp (catch all, scary with Displacer)
    1 Containment Priest (1 more at Side, bonkers with Displacer)

    These slots can also be: SfM Package, Lodestone Golem, Removal or up the numbers of Thalia 2.0, Revoker, Prelate etc. Simply all the things that we want to test.

    What i like is that Recruiter (perfect with 2W) allow a little toolbox which answers even uncommon cards from your opponent. Interaction with Displacer/Flickerwisp/Containment Priest/Revoker and even Prelate is very scary. Jitte itself is the best equipment with Thalia(s) and will also help Prelate&Co to improve combat situations. As i mentioned above, i am sure this deck can also work without the Toolbox.

    --------
    @square_two:

    I would cut -1 Prelate from your Build for +1 Revoker, since Revoker can be a Turn 1 Play, works better with Lodestone and Prelate finally needs 1WW which can be a problem and if you mix in Lodestone you have another disruption piece.

    ---------
    @Lodestone Golem: I would (at least at Sideboard) try some Blade Splicer, they will ensure that the fragile Lodestone will be much better at combat (can even kill a Smasher^^) with First Strike. Blade Splicer also offers perfect 2W Mana, two bodies, combos well with Displacer (and finally can be a tutor target for Recruiter)
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  13. #53

    Re: Thalia Stompy

    List ive been tinkering with the past couple weeks. not exactly sure where to go from here, but the deck is pretty cohesive in terms of the game plan and seems to top deck pretty well.


    Creatures(14)
    4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    3x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
    3x Eldrazi Displacer
    4x Lodestone Golem

    Artifact/Enchantment(21)
    4x Suppresion Field
    3x Oblivion Ring
    4x Sphere of Resistance
    4x Chalice of the Void
    3x Cucible of Worlds
    3x Mox Diamond

    Lands(25)
    5x Plains
    3x Flagstones of Trokair
    3x Karakas
    3x Rishadan Port
    4x Wasteland
    3x City of Traitors
    4x Ancient Tomb


    Sideboard is in flux atm.

    This is much more of a prison deck than a stompy deck, but i guess sort of fits in this thread. I'd rather not make another, and who knows SFM/Equipment might be better, but i wanted to try something distinctly different from D&T.

    Suppresion field is insane against so much of the field right now. I've found myself in a scenario where i had S. Field down with a crucible/wastelock and thalia 2.0, needless to say the opponent couldnt do much and the game was effectively over.

    I think the ports could go maybe for a dust bowl or ghost quarter and more white sources, flagstones were in there because i started ith the intent of being an armageddon deck, but after a bunch of theorycrafting ended up not running it, so those are flexible as well.

    Displacer is great, but less so with S. Field, so that could go in the side for the new sanctum prelate.

    Welcome to suggestion here. The deck doesnt win fast but can establish a seriously effective lock within the first couple turns of the game. So far ive run games against D&T, Elves, Food Chain and Lands. Will hopefully be able to get some testing against Miracles, Shardless etc over the next couple weeks, i think it should line up decently against miracles and i was worried about shardless until they spoiled Sanctum Prelate.

    Cheers

  14. #54

    Re: Thalia Stompy

    Alright, I wanted to address a couple points:
    1. I am not a fan of Prelate in the deck. While the effect is absolutely sick and I love the card, it is sub-optimal for 2 reasons:
    a. We already can run out chalice early
    b. WW can be incredibly difficult. For anyone who has not read it, Frank Karsten has a fantastic article on mana sources. Here is the link for reference http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...t-your-spells/. It goes on to effectively say that in order for us to cast Prelate on 2 (which I assume is what we want to be doing), we need 20 white sources in the deck. On top of that, it doesn't benefit from any of our sol lands. Anyway, it is a 3-mana, 2-power creature.

    2. Lodestone Golem over Reality Smasher. The more I play the deck the more impressed I have been with Lodestone. It perfectly encompasses what the deck wants to do (Tax your opponent just enough to tempo them out while you beat them to death). Often a turn 1 Thalia into turn 2 Lodestone means the game is over. I have seen some comments discussing how Lodestone makes Dismember/Warping Wail worse. I am not sure how much you have actually played the deck, but making your 1-2 mana removal spells cost 2-3 is so irrelevant when you have 4+ mana that you almost never mind. On top of that, splitting the difference between removal (delver, DnT, etc) and countermagic (miracles, storm, etc) is just fantastic. Warping wail has been fantastic and I would be hard-pressed to run fewer than 3 in the 75.

    3. Crucible and additional lock pieces. While I love locking my opponent out of the game, the reason to play the deck is that you can actually simultaneously pressure them. The fewer action (read: creatures that can attack/kill your opponent) cards we have in order to accommodate more lock pieces (thorns main, crucible, suppression field), the more often you will flood and just draw air, do nothing, and die. That said, I don't think we can drop below 20 creatures minimum if we want to actually win games.

    4. Fewer than 4 Wasteland: Wasteland is fantastic and it can single-handedly win games. On top of that, it is important that we both draw enough lands to cast our spells on curve, but also not flood out. Wasteland does this job almost perfectly, and being able to simply keep land-heavy hands and waste twice will often be enough. Plus, having a land that complements our mana denial is just beautiful.

    5. The deck's name: Considering I took the idea for the deck from a list Ari Lax ran a couple months ago through a league, and he was just porting White Eldrazi from Vintage, it would seem appropriate to title it one of the few following things:
    White Eldrazi
    Thalia Stompy
    White Stopmy
    Turbotax for the more tax-heavy version

    This is all irrelevant though, since we should probably be focusing more on optimizing the lists than coming up with a catchy name :P

  15. #55

    Re: Thalia Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by DisgruntledElk View Post
    2. Lodestone Golem over Reality Smasher. The more I play the deck the more impressed I have been with Lodestone. It perfectly encompasses what the deck wants to do (Tax your opponent just enough to tempo them out while you beat them to death). Often a turn 1 Thalia into turn 2 Lodestone means the game is over. I have seen some comments discussing how Lodestone makes Dismember/Warping Wail worse. I am not sure how much you have actually played the deck, but making your 1-2 mana removal spells cost 2-3 is so irrelevant when you have 4+ mana that you almost never mind. On top of that, splitting the difference between removal (delver, DnT, etc) and countermagic (miracles, storm, etc) is just fantastic. Warping wail has been fantastic and I would be hard-pressed to run fewer than 3 in the 75.
    I absolutely agree with the assessment that Lodestone is the correct choice to maindeck as a four of. It fits the decks plan much better than Reality Smasher. The deck is not a Stompy-build as the old Eldrazi decks were. You are much less aggressive but much more disruptive.

    But as I wrote in my small report in the DnT-thread before the deck got its own thread, I think the deck might profit from some number of Smashers in the board (especially in the matchup against Miracles), because haste is such a good ability to have. I have repeatedly gotten into grindy late game situations against opposing planeswalkers that have given me trouble.

    The other option I am considering for these situations is sideboarding some copies of Gideon like DnT has started to do. No haste, but just a very resiliant late game thread for grindy matchups. Problem is that we run even fewer white sources than DnT. The numbers are quite close actually, but 3 of ours are Mox Diamonds, which can require you to discard one of your white sources to use, so they don't fully count when doing the math. I am aware of the interaction between tax effects and adding a planeswalker, but as DisgruntledElk put it in regard to the Warping Wail discussion: The deck contains a lot of mana and quite a significant amount of ramp. While you are able to cast Gideon on T2 with the right draw, that is not the plan behind the idea. In the matchups you want a planeswalker to grind, you have the time to get past 4 mana to get through your own tax effects.

  16. #56

    Re: Thalia Stompy

    I call my version of the deck (evolved from Angel Moat Stompy) Sexy Stompy, as all creatures except TKS are girls. Try to seriously consider Windborn Muse - in legacy she completely locks out opposing creatures, while beating opp's face. Prelate (girl also) gives 4 more ways to protect Muse, so no STP or Bolt for her. With Muse the deck is capable of locking both non-creature and creature plans against us.

  17. #57
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    Re: Thalia Stompy

    I agree with others that Prelate doesn't look so spicy in a Stompy build with only 11 white sources (15 if you count Cavern). Similarly, Reality Smasher is a bit out of reach without Eyes and additional Sol lands. Lodestone, on the other hand, is a good shout. I think the deck builds itself along these lines:

    2 Phyrexian Revoker (flex)
    3 Stoneforge Mystic
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
    3 Eldrazi Displacer
    4 Thought-Knot Seer
    4 Lodestone Golem

    4 Mox Diamond
    4 Chalice of the Void
    2 Crucible
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Batterskull

    5 Plains
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Eldrazi Temple
    4 Wasteland
    2 Karakas
    2 City of Traitors

    Sideboard:
    Containment Priest
    Rest in Peace
    Thorn of Amethyst
    Crucible
    Oblivion Ring
    Revoker
    Etc.

  18. #58
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    Re: Thalia Stompy

    I've been calling it E&T.
    Eldrazi and Taxes or Eldrazi and Thalias. Simple, acknowledges the influence of D&T, describes what it does and E comes after D in the alphabet and so this is an evolution of D&T.

    Sib

    All the decks look nice I must say.
    Lodestone and TKS seem like the big beaters to go for as they disrupt and kill rather than Smasher which is just a big dumb guy.

  19. #59

    Re: Thalia Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Sibelius View Post
    I've been calling it E&T.
    Eldrazi and Taxes or Eldrazi and Thalias. Simple, acknowledges the influence of D&T, describes what it does and E comes after D in the alphabet and so this is an evolution of D&T.

    Sib

    All the decks look nice I must say.
    Lodestone and TKS seem like the big beaters to go for as they disrupt and kill rather than Smasher which is just a big dumb guy.
    I think in the Lodestone versions, calling it Lt. Stompy seems like a legitimate idea. L for Lodestone, T for Thalia.

  20. #60
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    Re: Thalia Stompy

    I thought Turbotax was pretty good . It'll probably just end up being called Thalia Stompy though. Cool deck names are a dying art.

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