Thalia Stompy

[ChemicalBurns]

After seeing all those 5-0s recently on MtGO I HAD to try this. D&T plus Stompy is my favourite two things to be doing in Legacy. Anyway, here's my list so far:

Creatures: (24)
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Sanctum Prelate

Non-Creature Spells: (11)
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Lotus Petal
2 Dismember
2 Warping Wail

Lands: (25)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Karakas
2 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
5 Plains
4 Wasteland

Sideboard: (15)
3 Rest in Peace
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Containment Priest
2 Disenchant
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Warping Wail

I have to so say... I'm *loving* this deck. Really feels like it's tapping best into the insane potentials of all the recent printings.

A few things in this list that vary from the norm:
- Lotus Petals. I like these a little more than Diamonds. When I played Eldrazi I found Diamonds to be very clunky. I like these a little more because they make more hands with T1 Thalia, that utterly end so many decks, possible (don't need Diamond + 2 Lands, only 1 Land + Petal). Though feel free to argue against this, since I know most have had positive experiences with Diamond.
- 4 Revoker. I love Revoker, and without SFM the deck needs to be able to fill the two drop slot nicely. Casting him t1 off a sol land on the draw against DRS is a delight.
- Lodestone > Smasher. I've liked Lodestone surprisingly a lot so far, (I hated him in Eldrazi, but that was of course because he was run along with Smasher) but as people have mentioned, this choice can vary on meta - though when is Smasher more preferable?
- 2 Prelate. Prelate has felt *super* clunky to cast so far, though when slammed she generally locked up the game. Maybe tinkering the manabase (some painlands, perhaps?) might make her more feasible.
- 3 Displacer. I'm interested in people's thoughts on Displacer. Although my experiences with the card have been positive so far it has very little synergies within my list other than with TKS. People's talks of Blade Splicer have actually sounded pretty sweet, though the general utility of Displacer may just outweigh the coolness and synergy Splicer has with Golem.
- 2 Canonist over Thorns. I've seen a lot of lists featuring Thorns - is this because they get under Therapy on the play? I do like my hate pieces to bash though.
- 3 Swords to Plowshares. I kind of hate sideboarding that has poor synergy with the main deck, though I imagine this is very important in other Stompy matchups and against SFM decks like D&T. Though I'd love to simply include some more Wails, though.

Anyway, I thought Eldrazi was the best Stompy deck I'd ever played... But this is really starting to say otherwise. It has such powerful Eldrazi-like draws, while also being very strong with its average D&T-ish draws. I'm looking forward to seeing where this deck progresses.

Sean

[klaus]

How about a light splash?

4 Thalia 1.0
3 Thalia 2.0
3 Revoker
3 Recruiter
3 Magus
1 Stonecloaker
1 Prelate
1 meta slot dude
3 Mom
4 SFM
(-26-)

3 EQ
4 STP
4 Vial
2 SSG
(-13-)

4 ancient tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 wasteland
6 fetch
2 plains
2 plateau
1 mountain
(-21-)

[Cire]

That looks like D&T not whatever we're calling this deck (Thalia Stompy, Eldrazi & Taxes, Death & Staxes, etc).

Basically: Vial --> D&T. More than 8 Eldrazi --> Eldrazi Stompy.

@ChemicalBurns: I like that list - also glad you agree that Prelate is brutal when it lands. Do you have any ideas on how to allow our manabase to support more copies? It seems the choice is whether to remove wastelands or removal in favor of more white sources.

[MD.Ghost]

Until Prelate is tested (and i don't know if you will combine Prelate and Lodestone and facing a 5/6 Gofy Wall sounds so good, what i mean, overloading to spellhate can be wrong if you face BGx decks - see Eldrazi Hype last GPs) i will work on a version without the new cards. Recruiter + Displacer also sounds super nice, but you will tend to cut other Playsets and reduce your tempo, i am not sure, if this decks aims to an superior late game plan, afterall it is Aggro Stompy which means, fast lockpieces and beatdown.


// Deck: White Stompy.dec (60)

// Lands
5 Plains
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
2 City of Traitors
2 Karakas

// Creatures
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Lodestone Golem
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Blade Splicer

// Spells
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Warping Wail
1 Crucible of Worlds

// Sideboard
2 Containment Priest
2 Path to Exile / Swords
2 Rest in Peace
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Disenchant
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 War Priest of Thune
2 open slots


I like the current list, it offers decent hate/lockpieces and can also win against creature heavy decks or (for Eldrazi) problematic matchups like BGx.

I reduced Thalia(s), Revoker and Lodestone to 3 copies, because i feel that is overall the right number for mulligans, topdecks etc. since most cards complete each other or work similiar in terms of disruption. Compared to DnT and Eldrazi Builds this decks has more than enough "Hate" for spells, lands and even creatures (including sideboard).

For me the main is currently set in stone, unless we tested enough Recruiter and Prelate and finally find room/the right config. Sideboard is still flexible, so you can adjust it for any meta. I tinker around with a "troll splash" for the last to open slots and searched for "Humans" (to add up Cavern Mana since Cavern is either Eldrazi or Human with the build above):

Orzhov Pontiff - really like the ability since the deck has no "sweeper" and Pontiff + Displacer is really bonkers vs DnT etc, since the first EtB Trigger from Pontiff should also kill any enemy Revoker (naming Displacer). So only issue is the mana (8 sources for Black: Mox/Cavern: Human)

Keldon Marauders - as i mentioned above: Troll Cards; Marauders + Displacer can also be nasty (since it has "enter"+"leave" Trigger) and will kill even under Moat or Bridge, "Bolt" for each Displacer activation should be fast enough if you count multiple "shots" each turn.

Thopter Engineer - hey klaus mentioned a little red splash, so here we go. Engineer is like Blade Splicer a card made for Displacer, you gain hasty Flyers (and Golems!) that will also work under Moat (and Bridge).

Rishadan Cutpurse - sadly only a 1/1 so definitively a pure troll card, but since the deck aims to lock out the opponent (and forces him to tap more mana than common) this little dude can wreck all enemy permanents (which should be low enough if all works fine)

I will try Orzhov Pontiff (maybe 1 or 2, depends on Path/Swords number) because i feel it is a nice surprise, works as a sweeper (uncounterable with Cavern) which is more or less one missing piece for the deck - and can also push your own (First Strike!) Dudes if the enemy field is empty. Switching Plains for Caves of Koilos can also be an adjustment if needed.

[ChemicalBurns]

@ Cire, I'd imagine we trim some number of Wastelands and maybe some Temples / a City (I know Disgruntled_Elk has had three Temples in his lists) to accommodate some painlands. Is it worth though? We certainly remove some explosiveness of the deck.

Also, I forgot how great Winter Orb likely is in the sideboard (or even main) of this deck (esp. w/ THC). Seems pretty brutal as a two-of in the 75 somewhere.

I'm really looking to squeeze some Splicers into this list. I might end up just cutting Prelate if I can't butcher the mana base enough for Splicer. Prelate is great, but casting her is not.

[Dice_Box]

Is Prelate really going to fit in this deck? I mean, it's a double White card in a deck built on a Stompy mana base. I understand the pull of the disruption but it's hard to power out.

[GoblinSettler]

A few things in this list that vary from the norm:
- Lotus Petals. I like these a little more than Diamonds. When I played Eldrazi I found Diamonds to be very clunky. I like these a little more because they make more hands with T1 Thalia, that utterly end so many decks, possible (don't need Diamond + 2 Lands, only 1 Land + Petal). Though feel free to argue against this, since I know most have had positive experiences with Diamond.

Sean

I have also found Mox Diamonds to be very clunky here and prefer the Lotus Petals instead. Still the mana feels shockingly bad for a deck that is nearly half mana sources.

Also want to try something like the following:
25 lands
3 Mox Diamond
2 Crucible of Worlds

[Fatal]

Until Prelate is tested (and i don't know if you will combine Prelate and Lodestone and facing a 5/6 Gofy Wall sounds so good, what i mean, overloading to spellhate can be wrong if you face BGx decks - see Eldrazi Hype last GPs) i will work on a version without the new cards. Recruiter + Displacer also sounds super nice, but you will tend to cut other Playsets and reduce your tempo, i am not sure, if this decks aims to an superior late game plan, afterall it is Aggro Stompy which means, fast lockpieces and beatdown.


// Deck: White Stompy.dec (60)

// Lands
5 Plains
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
2 City of Traitors
2 Karakas

// Creatures
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Lodestone Golem
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Blade Splicer

// Spells
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Warping Wail
1 Crucible of Worlds

// Sideboard
2 Containment Priest
2 Path to Exile / Swords
2 Rest in Peace
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Disenchant
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 War Priest of Thune
2 open slots


I like the current list, it offers decent hate/lockpieces and can also win against creature heavy decks or (for Eldrazi) problematic matchups like BGx.

I reduced Thalia(s), Revoker and Lodestone to 3 copies, because i feel that is overall the right number for mulligans, topdecks etc. since most cards complete each other or work similiar in terms of disruption. Compared to DnT and Eldrazi Builds this decks has more than enough "Hate" for spells, lands and even creatures (including sideboard).

For me the main is currently set in stone, unless we tested enough Recruiter and Prelate and finally find room/the right config. Sideboard is still flexible, so you can adjust it for any meta. I tinker around with a "troll splash" for the last to open slots and searched for "Humans" (to add up Cavern Mana since Cavern is either Eldrazi or Human with the build above):

Orzhov Pontiff - really like the ability since the deck has no "sweeper" and Pontiff + Displacer is really bonkers vs DnT etc, since the first EtB Trigger from Pontiff should also kill any enemy Revoker (naming Displacer). So only issue is the mana (8 sources for Black: Mox/Cavern: Human)

Keldon Marauders - as i mentioned above: Troll Cards; Marauders + Displacer can also be nasty (since it has "enter"+"leave" Trigger) and will kill even under Moat or Bridge, "Bolt" for each Displacer activation should be fast enough if you count multiple "shots" each turn.

Thopter Engineer - hey klaus mentioned a little red splash, so here we go. Engineer is like Blade Splicer a card made for Displacer, you gain hasty Flyers (and Golems!) that will also work under Moat (and Bridge).

Rishadan Cutpurse - sadly only a 1/1 so definitively a pure troll card, but since the deck aims to lock out the opponent (and forces him to tap more mana than common) this little dude can wreck all enemy permanents (which should be low enough if all works fine)

I will try Orzhov Pontiff (maybe 1 or 2, depends on Path/Swords number) because i feel it is a nice surprise, works as a sweeper (uncounterable with Cavern) which is more or less one missing piece for the deck - and can also push your own (First Strike!) Dudes if the enemy field is empty. Switching Plains for Caves of Koilos can also be an adjustment if needed.

I like that list, I would only fix mox diamond count - 4 is too much and second thing Reality Smasher is guy you really want, backing to Playset Mox it works well with more then 25 lands, try 3, as for splash still didn't decide which one is best actually I pick green to fight moat/bridge/Moon with Sage, and Constant Mists to fight Infect. On other side Orzhov Pontiff looks very promising :-).

For interesting note I use one basic forest with fetchlands to fight hardest thing -fast Blood Moon - it shut down all Eldrazi (12 creatures), which isn't easy.

[ChemicalBurns]

Alright, so a good friend of mine split the finals of a small tourney here in Melbourne, Australia with a list I flicked over to him:

Creatures: (25)
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Blade Splicer
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Thought-Knot Seer

Non-Creature Spells: (10)
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Mox Diamond
2 Dismember
1 Warping Wail

Lands: (25)
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Karakas
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
5 Plains

Sideboard: (15)
3 Rest in Peace
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Containment Priest
2 Disenchant
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Winter Orb
1 Warping Wail

Most of the list was untested, so it was a trial by fire. And it certainly speaks to the deck's strengths in that it got to the finals! I'll post up the report he sent to me too, but first, some choices:
- No Prelate. It's seriously too damn hard to cast. Butchering the mana base (and finding Prelates in time) proved to be too difficult, so Blade Splicer it was.
- Diamond > Petal. I still think either choice are equally feasible, though my friend had access to Diamonds, so let's go with that.
- Mindbreak Trap > Canonist. I like this a lot, as it gives us a saving grace against Turn Zero combo, an extra angle vs. Storm (with four Revoker we already have a critical mass of hate to play on t1, so Thorn is less needed) along with Wail.
- Winter Orb. Miracles is a thing, this is great with Thalia and etc. Turned out to not be boarded in much. Might change this up.

Report from my friend! Note that I don't necessarily agree on his boarding at all points, but he's just remembering off the top of his head anyway, so it might be a bit different.

Round 1 (Shardless BUG)
G1: Played a TKS he dropped a Goyf. I Dismember his Goyf and proceed to beat down and he never finds an answer.

+2 RiP
+3 Swords to Plowshares
-3 THC
-2 Displacer

G2: Deathrite Shaman turn 1 and I follow with a Chalice on 1. He follows up with a Strix and then a second. I play TKS and Thalia but can't deal with his DRS. Eventually find a RiP but he Brainstorms and eats Brainstorms in response taking me to lethal from the Strix.
G3: T1 land go. He plays DRS. I follow with a Thalia. He plays Goyf. I play RiP. And he chumps Thalia with Goyf. I play TKS and take his Brainstorm leaving him with Visions and a Goyf. He suspends Visions and passes. Chalice on 0 and Dismember his DRS swing in for a bunch and he concedes.

Round 2 (Goblins)
G1: I play a Revoker on his Vial and 2 TKS lock it up.

+1 WW
+3 Swords to Plowshares
-4 Chalice of the Void

G2: He Vials in a Sharpshooter against my hand of double Thalia and double Splicer. I never find removal and die quickly.
G3: He keeps a 2 lander and drops a Vial on t1. Proceeds to use all 3 of his Mogg War Marshasl and makes a million tokens. I play double Splicer but he has double Pyrokinesis to answer them.

Round 3 (Sneak & Show)
G1: Lose the dice roll. He Probes and plays a land. I play Chalice on 1 which he Forces. Brainstorm fetch. I play new Thalia into TKS and take his Griselbrand. He shortly concedes after.

+2 Containment Priest
+1 WW
+1 Disenchant
-2 Blade Splicer
-2 Dismember

G2: He leads with land Ponder. I Cavern name Human and Mox Diamond discarding a Cavern before passing it back. He plays 2 Lotus Petals and a cantrip then passes. I EoT Containment Priest using Cavern. He forces pitching Force... CP resolves and I untap play City of Traitors and drop a Revoker naming Lotus Petal and a Thalia. Beats, then a Lodestone Golem for lethal the next turn

Round 4 (UG 12Post)
G1: My opponent wins the dice roll and keeps a hand with a T3 TKS. I play a T2 TKS and take his. He plays land go. I play a T3 TKS and see he has 4 blue cards with no blue source. Take his Show and Tell. Game ends shortly after that.

+2 Winter Orb
+3 Swords to Plowshares
-1 WW
-2 Blade Splicer
-2 Dismember

G2: Opponent leads with fetch Brainstorm. I play T1 Winter Orb. Opponent makes land drop. I play a Revoker on Candelabra. He makes another land drop and plays a Candelabra. I play a 3rd land and a TKS. He top decks Tabernacle. I use City of Traitors to pay for my 2 creatures. He top decks TKS and plays it. Takes a 4 drop. I offer to trade TKS he takes it. We both draw. He doesn't find an out to the Revoker and dies to beats.

Round 5 (ANT)
ID to lock for Top 4


Top 4 (ANT)
G1: He Duresses and misses. I play a Revoker naming LED with Thalia for next turn. He Brainstorms into double Petal, Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual, Cabal Ritual, Ad Nauseum. Ad Nauseums to 4. Land, Ponder, LED, LED, Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual, Tendrils for lethal.

+2 Mindbreak Trap
+2 RiP
-2 Splicers
-2 Dismember

G2: T1 Chalice on 0, Revoker on led. T2 Thalia, T3 Lodestone. Easy win.
G3: He Probes me and sees I have a Mindbreak Trap. Passes turn with no land drop. I play T1 Chalice on 0 and Revoker on LED. He passes. T2 Thalia. T3 Chalice on 1. T4 Chalice on 2. GG.

Finals (Goblins)
Split.

Points I can take away from our conversations:
- Splicer was great in fair matchups, making some first strike Golem action. Also, his Splicers were in Japanese so the Goblins player forgot about first strike and tripled blocked some Goblins into death. Noice.
- Current mana base cannot achieve double white easily, so my friend agreed.
- Trap was great!
- The weenie creature MUs seem hard. A SFM package in the SB might be feasible to find some Jittes. Or maybe Holy Light, since we're cutting Thalia vs. Elves etc anyway?
- Displacer was lacklustre to him, which I can understand. Interesting. Might shave some numbers.

Overall, my friend was very, very impressed with the deck and bought up the rest of the pieces he didn't have afterwards >_< So yeah, expect us to be tinkering with this a bit longer!

[iostream]

Went 3-1-1 at a Legacy Champs trial in Indianapolis. I beat BUG Delver, Grixis Delver, and Colorless Eldrazi. I lost to Sneak/Show. I intentionally drew the last round to split the prize. I know it's not a lot of of data, but at least from my limited experience, the deck felt great.

My wins were relatively straightforward and easy. My Delver opponents were seriously hampered by the taxes and just couldn't keep up. The white cards, especially Thalia, GoT, were really good here and a definite improvement over Colorless. My colorless Eldrazi opponent flooded out one game and got Wasted out of the game the next, so I don't think I can really say too much about that matchup just from my match. My loss to Sneak/Show can probably be chalked up to variance. He had exactly Show and Tell into Omniscience + Emrakul + Griselbrand in game 1 when I had Thalia, HC + Revoker on Sneak Attack + Displacer + Karakas - this is the exact combination he needed to play through that. Then I got turn 1'd when I was on the draw in game 3, which happens; he was cold to Karakas, but I didn't have it. I felt that he had to have great draws in order to play through all the disruption, and he did.

The deck is definitely not a finished product by any means, but I really liked how it played.

Comments about my list:

1) I played Reality Smasher over Lodestone Golem, and it was amazing, as usual. I only played 3 for want of space and because I wasn't running Eye of Ugin, and I think that's the right number. Here are the reasons that I think Smasher over Golem is correct:

- You don't need a million sphere effects to soft-lock the game in your favor. The point of Stompy is to have disruption into beats, not lock the game down completely. At Golem/Smasher's point in the curve, I should already have disruption and will therefore want beats, and nothing beats better than Reality Smasher right now.

- Thalia, Heretic Cathar buys you tempo. Playing haste creatures is a fantastic way to take advantage of that. So I think Smasher just synergizes better with New Thalia.

- Playing more Eldrazi makes Eldrazi Temple better. Playing fewer creature types makes Cavern of Souls better. I don't want to have to set Cavern on Golem ever; nor do I want to have to expose my Golem or Smasher to countermagic because I didn't draw enough Caverns to make it uncounterable.

- Lodestone Golem dies to Lightning Bolt, which is horrible. Also, Golem does not generate any value when it dies to a spot removal spell.

2) Sanctum Prelate was there just to test and I didn't draw it except against Colorless Eldrazi, where it was obviously worthless. But it was castable with my manabase.

3) Didn't want to overload on Revokers because they don't do much in many matchups.

Decklist:

Lands (26)

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Caves of Koilos
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Karakas
4 Plains
4 Wasteland

Creatures (21)

3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Sanctum Prelate
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thalia, Heretic Cather
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Reality Smasher

Spells (13)

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Mox Diamond
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Dismember
2 Warping Wail

Sideboard

3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Armageddon
2 Basilisk Collar
2 Containment Priest
2 Disenchant
2 Spatial Contortion
2 Rest in Peace

[Whit3boy316]

Has anyoje tried this against infect and normal dnt?

[Fatal]

I played against Infect with my build (4 Golems, 4 Smashers, little SFM package, no removal MD), and with this configuration matchup before sb is almost unwinable (Thalia's helps but you can't generate enough tempo to win before they just invigorate + berserk).

So you need dedicated SB which will help vs other bad matchups:

Colorless options:
- Spellskite - one of the best vs Infect - easy to cast, works good also vs Burn (read cost 2 gain min. 4 life).

- not tested but looks promising vs some weenie -Juntu Stakes - can be played under chalice, connecting good with Thalia HC (hard lock), works nice vs elves - but here probably Cursed Totem would be better.

colored options:

Green:
On which I found which is quite interesting is in green - Constant Mists - works good vs Elves and Infect, can be used also vs Dark Depths combo, gives time to bounce with Karakas / Displacer.

Other green - Dawnstrider - very dedicated SB, works also vs Elves and DD combo - can be to slow vs fast hands.

Red:
Sudden Demise - not so great vs Nexus, but improve a lot vs D&T.

Black:
Toxic Deluge - not great but better vs other creature-based,[/cards]Engineered Plague[cards]- much better vs Infect and Elves,


To bad that Worship doesn't work vs Infect, could be best to improve those matchups - sure little slow but very hard to destroy.

[merfolkotpt]

Doesn't ghostly prison help out a lot when we are wastelanding people and playing thalia 1.0 alongside lodestone. I think infect might have some problems with that. Especially if we also play amount of thorn or trini.

EDIT:
Speaking of which, why is no one playing thorn in this format with white eldrazi, seems way better than revoker. Here is where I think I would start:

28 Mana Sources
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Lotus Petal
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Eldrazi Temple
1 Karakas
2 Rishadan Port
7 Plains
4 Wasteland
22 CREATURES
4 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Reality Smasher
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Thought-Knot Seer
10 OTHER SPELLS
1 Batterskull
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Umezawa's Jitte

[iostream]

I played against Infect with my build (4 Golems, 4 Smashers, little SFM package, no removal MD), and with this configuration matchup before sb is almost unwinable.

The simpler solution than running weird sideboard cards seems to be to just play some removal. With 2 Dismember, 2 Wail, 2 Jitte maindeck, I think the Infect matchup is actually a little better than it was with colorless Eldrazi. Dismember is specifically great against Infect and probably necessary even if your meta has no Infect at all because nearly all the creatures in this deck lose to Goyf in combat.

Speaking of which, why is no one playing thorn in this format with white eldrazi, seems way better than revoker.

For the same reason people don't usually play maindeck Thorns in colorless Eldrazi. This isn't Vintage. There are too many matchups where Thorn doesn't do anything or is low impact.

I think it bears repeating - this is not a prison deck! The balance between threats and disruption is something that has to be thought about carefully. You cannot just assume it's always correct to jam as many spheres as you can into the deck.

[Fatal]

Problem with removal MD:
- it's dead vs many matchups like Combo and Miracles (it's more then 50% of meta).
- It's not enough vs decks based on creatures like Infect and Elves
- It's not enough vs D&T, specially vs nowadays build with new Recruiter

So I'm looking for some better solution then single thread removal vs Infect and Elves. Constant Mist doesn't resolve Elves problem, most time I'm swarmed with weenie.

So Looking for dedicated cards vs Infect, Elves and D&T.

Single removal doesn't work enough - Jitte works not bad but it's just slow, and can be decay'ed (Elves) or needled with Revoker, best would be pernament base hate which has impact on battlefield when it comes, can be also spell but with CMC not more then 2.

I tired dedicated hate vs specify strategies - Infect / Elves / D&T but always miss some part due to space on sb - still need have answers vs graveyard decks, and enchantments/artifacts.

I found that Reclamation Sage is very good vs D&T - blowing vial/Equip is a key factor vs them, but it's sometimes hard when they needle Mox. I'm not running too many colored green source.

I'm running 3 x SFM which can easily find jitte, but it's still quite slow vs Infect. I need turn 2-3 answer jitte will connect turn 4 mostly (unless I draw Mox, but they also have permission).

Agreed on Thorn's they aren't enough good for MD material, sure they can shine in combo/miracle matchup but vs tempo/elves/D&T they not even worth casting.

I wish Provoke would be more popular ability it would resolve a lot of problems.

If anyone test old chool Drop of Honey / Porphyry Nodes vs Elves/D&T/Infect ? Probably not great vs Infect but could be supplemented by Spellskite which would also improve burn matchup.

[MD.Ghost]

Yesterday I conquered the 2nd Place from our local (26 players) tournament. Missed a perfect run at my last matchup.

Round 1 vs Dredge 2:0
Round 2 vs Reanimator 2:1
Round 3 vs Shardless BUG 2:1
Round 4 vs Maverick 2:1
Round 5 vs UG Delver 1:2

Decklist (see above) i only changed my side :
-1 Wastes for a 3rd Swords
-1 War Priest for 1 Mangara

Deck overall worked great, it contains more Disruption than Eldrazi (if you include Lodestone ) and is also better prepared vs BGx Decks (looking at Shardless etc). I really enjoyed that this build (without Prelate) can use Wastelands, way more aggressive than Eldrazi.
As I mentioned at my last Post, i also tested 2 Orzhov Pontiff, Sadly I don't saw him my last game as a I faced clique, noble and later 2 additional Delver.

Quick Note Blade Splicer performed well enough, all opponents aimed for him as fast as possible so he can't be so bad.

[keys]

Round 5 vs UG Delver 1:2

Do you mean UG Delver or RUG Delver?

[DisgruntledElk]

I played against Infect with my build (4 Golems, 4 Smashers, little SFM package, no removal MD), and with this configuration matchup before sb is almost unwinable (Thalia's helps but you can't generate enough tempo to win before they just invigorate + berserk).

So you need dedicated SB which will help vs other bad matchups:

Colorless options:
- Spellskite - one of the best vs Infect - easy to cast, works good also vs Burn (read cost 2 gain min. 4 life).

- not tested but looks promising vs some weenie -Juntu Stakes - can be played under chalice, connecting good with Thalia HC (hard lock), works nice vs elves - but here probably Cursed Totem would be better.

colored options:

To bad that Worship doesn't work vs Infect, could be best to improve those matchups - sure little slow but very hard to destroy.

I have played upwards of 25 matches vs infect (yeah, it isn't a huge sample size, but hey, still a sample) on MODO, and I am at LEAST 20-5 against them. For those who haven't seen my list, the highlights are:
4 Golems
2 SFM + Batterskull and Jitte
3 Displacer
4 THC
3 Thalia, GoT
2 Warping Wail and 1 in the SB
1 Dismember MD
3 STP in the board
4 Wasteland

I feel there a few key aspects to this matchup:
1. You need enough removal to not die on turn 1 on the draw. Having access to 3 MD removal spells in addition to 4 more in the board is pretty huge.
2. SFM is a pretty big beating, as Jitte is a house in the matchup
3. Wasteland + Thalia(s) are often enough to beat them
4. Chalice is a huge beating
5. Displacer is also quite disgusting.

The bottom line is that if you are losing to infect, your deck may be configured less than optimally for the matchup, though you may consider that you may be playing the matchup incorrectly as well.

Assess your role: You are NOT the beatdown. You are the CONTROL. The only reason to play into a daze is a turn 1 Chalice because it will just crush them. Even though they have K Grip post board, it means that your Jitte is safe. Moreover, by playing it slower and forcing them to slow down through disruption, you maximize your later draws like Displacer.

I'm not sure why everyone seems to be having so many issues with the matchup, as I have been crushing it, but those are just my 2 cents.

[Fatal]

My biggest problem is Inkmoth which fly over, can't be exiled with Wail when pumped (biggest problem is Invigorate - specially in multiple - dodge Chalice). Only wasteland helps here, but not always drawn - they have Crop rotation (if not chaliced) to fetch them eot.

Question - you side swords to plowshares along with Chalice on 1 ? Is it works good ? I see scenerio where you assamble chalice, then die to Flying Infected Land with Swords in hand..
Did any one tested Valarous Stance or Blessed Alliance ? Specially Alliance looks good vs Burn matchup.


3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Eldrazi Displacer
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Mox Diamond
2 Blade Splicer
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Karakas
2 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
2 Cavern of Souls
6 Plains
1 Batterskull
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Wastes
//SB
2 Warping Wail
2 Rest in Peace
2 Winter Orb
1 Manriki-Gusari
3 Disenchant
2 Spellskite
3 Blessed Alliance

SB built and working quite well.

Changed little lands - added wastelands to 4 and Waste vs paths.

[Whit3boy316]

Are there any vidoes of this deck online?